Quick Disconnects Sway Bar Discos Truth vs. Fiction
11-09-2006, 11:35 AM
#21
Registered User
Will someone please quantify this travel gain that is so important?
Seat of the pants meter on my old junk, getting the front to move at all by adding BJ spacers was the best.
Jacking the truck up allows both to droop. The swaybar prevents side to side bias and does limit travel.
Seat of the pants meter on my old junk, getting the front to move at all by adding BJ spacers was the best.
Jacking the truck up allows both to droop. The swaybar prevents side to side bias and does limit travel.
11-09-2006, 12:02 PM
#22
Contributing Member
I estimate that I gained about 2-3" of total articulation in the front end with the disconnects (not super significant I know), I didn't gain anything in the rear but I'm definitely helping prevent damage to the rear swaybar by unhooking off road.
Of course I also saw a big imporvement in off-road ride quality, because the tires are more capable of moving independently of each other. A big plus on rocky trails where one tire hits a rock and has to move, but the other is flat on the ground.
Of course I also saw a big imporvement in off-road ride quality, because the tires are more capable of moving independently of each other. A big plus on rocky trails where one tire hits a rock and has to move, but the other is flat on the ground.
11-09-2006, 01:09 PM
#23
I always recommend folks looking at disconnects try it on and off-road, with and without sway bars a few times to see if they find a difference. Whether a difference is noticed off road depends on the suspension setup and the type of terrain driven on. Same goes for on pavement and also the driver's preference and driving style.
There is one guy in my club who never disconnected sway bars off road for years, never felt the need for it, but he did have a front locker, so a tire in the air was no big deal. Last year he heard a clunking sound under his truck and after a few months finally found the source. His sway bar had snapped in the middle. He was all worried that it must be replaced when I pointed out to him that he did not even notice it was broken, aside from the noise, as far as on-road handling went. So he just removed the broken bar and called it good.
On my '85, I found disconnecting the bar had a big impact off-road, but one time I forgot to reconnect it and found out my truck was handling better on the road in high crosswinds. Only later did I realize the bar was disconnected and that was the reason for the handling change. So off came the bar and have not had one for about 8 years now.
If you do find disconnecting the bar works well off-road and leaving it connected is beneficial on pavement, then it comes down to how many times do you think you'll disconnect it. If 1 or 2 times a year, just get a wrench and unbolt one side when you need to disconnect. On the other hand, if you are going to do that 1-2 times a month, then by all means, go for the quick disconnects to save time:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...#DisconnectsV2
There is one guy in my club who never disconnected sway bars off road for years, never felt the need for it, but he did have a front locker, so a tire in the air was no big deal. Last year he heard a clunking sound under his truck and after a few months finally found the source. His sway bar had snapped in the middle. He was all worried that it must be replaced when I pointed out to him that he did not even notice it was broken, aside from the noise, as far as on-road handling went. So he just removed the broken bar and called it good.
On my '85, I found disconnecting the bar had a big impact off-road, but one time I forgot to reconnect it and found out my truck was handling better on the road in high crosswinds. Only later did I realize the bar was disconnected and that was the reason for the handling change. So off came the bar and have not had one for about 8 years now.
If you do find disconnecting the bar works well off-road and leaving it connected is beneficial on pavement, then it comes down to how many times do you think you'll disconnect it. If 1 or 2 times a year, just get a wrench and unbolt one side when you need to disconnect. On the other hand, if you are going to do that 1-2 times a month, then by all means, go for the quick disconnects to save time:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...#DisconnectsV2
11-09-2006, 02:18 PM
#24
Contributing Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Los Osos, CA (we can't agree on crap!)
Posts: 2,124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With the swaybar on, you should not be able to have one tire completetly compressed and one completely drooped. You'd bend the bar at that point.
Both of them can still droop all the way, as long as they droop together, or pretty close to it. But they can't be at opposite extremes, which is what we want off road.
Both of them can still droop all the way, as long as they droop together, or pretty close to it. But they can't be at opposite extremes, which is what we want off road.
Last edited by slosurfer; 11-09-2006 at 02:25 PM.
11-09-2006, 04:28 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: So MS
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The first thing I did was take mine out,completetly,now I wouldn't know how to drive with it.Yes I do,it rides better,wheels better,drives better.I have 33 inch bias ply swampers,you dont do abrupt moves,I dont even drive over 55 mph.The sway bars ain't goin back on my rig.NOW What's all that go to do with sway bar disco's?
11-09-2006, 04:50 PM
#27
i have a set, but i don't disconnect them. i loose a little travel (maybe an inch), but i have a front locker, so i don't miss it.
if the vertical stud was slightly smaller so that it wouldn't bind in the eye of the sway bar when it's flexed, then they wouldn't need to be disconnected at all in order to get full cycles of the suspension w/ the front tundra setup on a runner w/ a winch and bumper. the more weight up front, the less they really do for you and also the less they hinder you offroad if they're connected.
if the vertical stud was slightly smaller so that it wouldn't bind in the eye of the sway bar when it's flexed, then they wouldn't need to be disconnected at all in order to get full cycles of the suspension w/ the front tundra setup on a runner w/ a winch and bumper. the more weight up front, the less they really do for you and also the less they hinder you offroad if they're connected.
11-10-2006, 06:36 AM
#28
Contributing Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 5,278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For this thread to actually be worth anything. You have to sort the trucks.
1. Straight Axle Toyota, Jeep, Ford, Dodge, Etc will have an experience different from an IFS truck. So the data from them will not apply to IFS. With live axles that have a huge amount of movement, a sway bar can be a big hindrance.
2. 86-95 IFS. It's own monster. Sway bar on or off can anyone even tell? It's tough.
3. 96-02(04) IFS. The new monster. The problem I see here is that every disconnect ever made to date has actually significantly reduced front articulation when installed as they all have a much larger stud that goes through the hole or a binding design as the Rockstomer ones were. So a person with after market disconnects can not provide data for connected as connected for them provides limited movement in comparison to a stock link.
Disconnecting the sway bar on the front coil spring trucks does increase body roll greatly, but is body roll going to give you more a-arm movement? What you want is to stuff the compressed wheel up as high as possible, you know the only one with any weight on it. I have a sway bar design that does not use the upper stud, but it involves welding and no one has the balls to try the bar as it is not bolt on. So I blew it off. That bar connected or not, will not limit anything. True that the stock 3rd Gen bar with the stud is not ideal, but can work fine connected if the bushings are given a chance to move.
My opinion, like it or not is to keep your stock end links. Even better yet burn a little weld and run the bar without the stud and dual balls.
1. Straight Axle Toyota, Jeep, Ford, Dodge, Etc will have an experience different from an IFS truck. So the data from them will not apply to IFS. With live axles that have a huge amount of movement, a sway bar can be a big hindrance.
2. 86-95 IFS. It's own monster. Sway bar on or off can anyone even tell? It's tough.
3. 96-02(04) IFS. The new monster. The problem I see here is that every disconnect ever made to date has actually significantly reduced front articulation when installed as they all have a much larger stud that goes through the hole or a binding design as the Rockstomer ones were. So a person with after market disconnects can not provide data for connected as connected for them provides limited movement in comparison to a stock link.
Disconnecting the sway bar on the front coil spring trucks does increase body roll greatly, but is body roll going to give you more a-arm movement? What you want is to stuff the compressed wheel up as high as possible, you know the only one with any weight on it. I have a sway bar design that does not use the upper stud, but it involves welding and no one has the balls to try the bar as it is not bolt on. So I blew it off. That bar connected or not, will not limit anything. True that the stock 3rd Gen bar with the stud is not ideal, but can work fine connected if the bushings are given a chance to move.
My opinion, like it or not is to keep your stock end links. Even better yet burn a little weld and run the bar without the stud and dual balls.
Last edited by sschaefer3; 11-10-2006 at 06:39 AM.
11-10-2006, 06:39 AM
#29
just for clarification... steve is referring to a bar that has endlinks w/ two articulating ball joints. our 3rd gens only have one ball joint and one bushing/stud joint. the bushing/stud joint is the one that binds.
11-10-2006, 08:57 AM
#30
Contributing Member
Steve - you described the "flex" of our trucks once as "bouncy". the most accurate description ever. Mine seems A LOT less bouncy and more flexy with the swaybar disconnected. Does that necessarily mean more travel? I don't know - maybe not, but it is a lot more controllable and (with the lockers) allows you to "crawl" obstacles instead of "pinball" them.
11-10-2006, 09:08 AM
#31
Contributing Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 5,278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is a tough one. My 1990 Pickup is locked front and rear, has the stock sway bar and stock t-bars untouched and installed.
It actually does crawl. Hard stuff too.
http://www.thegreatwallofarizona.com...6/DSC02259.JPG
http://www.thegreatwallofarizona.com...6/DSC02218.JPG
28's BABY! The only way to crawl old junk with stock gears.......
It actually does crawl. Hard stuff too.
http://www.thegreatwallofarizona.com...6/DSC02259.JPG
http://www.thegreatwallofarizona.com...6/DSC02218.JPG
28's BABY! The only way to crawl old junk with stock gears.......
11-10-2006, 10:52 AM
#32
Contributing Member
i have sway bar discos that haven't been connected for forever. I'm going to remove them and sell them this winter because i notice not difference on road. The rear leafs keep it plenty stable, and i have had numerous "avoidance manuvers" and it works the same.
Offroad, no difference, except for no more awful squeaking of the sway bar. I'd leave it on if i had the stock links still, but i don't, so off it comes.
Offroad, no difference, except for no more awful squeaking of the sway bar. I'd leave it on if i had the stock links still, but i don't, so off it comes.
11-10-2006, 10:55 AM
#33
Contributing Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 5,278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i have sway bar discos that haven't been connected for forever. I'm going to remove them and sell them this winter because i notice not difference on road. The rear leafs keep it plenty stable, and i have had numerous "avoidance manuvers" and it works the same.
Offroad, no difference, except for no more awful squeaking of the sway bar. I'd leave it on if i had the stock links still, but i don't, so off it comes.
Offroad, no difference, except for no more awful squeaking of the sway bar. I'd leave it on if i had the stock links still, but i don't, so off it comes.
11-10-2006, 06:53 PM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 4,655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have had discos on my 954runner and now on my 92 p/u. I use them everytime I go offroad. They dont increase articulation any, as the IFS can go stop to stop pretty easy, but they do allow one to stuff and one to droop much easier. They are quick to disconnect and connect. If they are available I will probally consider them for my new taco when I get it.
11-14-2006, 05:10 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ohio
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i broke the sway bar link piece when i put on my lift. i have been looking for new ones. should i really be worried about getting them because i drive my 4runner everyday. If i did get new ones, how expensive are qiuck disconects?
11-14-2006, 05:47 PM
#37
Contributing Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chadds Ford, PA
Posts: 1,744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am glad I ordered a set...
I just got to get them on...
I borke my old set...
I hate drivin my Runner without them...
I feel all lover the road and in turns I have to be slower...
Before when they were on i felt better gripped to to the road...
I got mine from Wabfab...
But since it's been raining since I got the Runner back, they still sit in the box they were shipped mocking me...
I just got to get them on...
I borke my old set...
I hate drivin my Runner without them...
I feel all lover the road and in turns I have to be slower...
Before when they were on i felt better gripped to to the road...
I got mine from Wabfab...
But since it's been raining since I got the Runner back, they still sit in the box they were shipped mocking me...
11-14-2006, 06:34 PM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While it is true that you may get full articulation even with the sway bar
connected, it still has a significant effect on traction, or lack thereof
on the drooped side.
A sway bar is like having a supplemental "anti-spring". On the side with
the most droop the sway bar is acting against the force of the coil spring.
The coil spring is trying to extend the suspension and the sway bar is
trying to prevent it from extending. Because we know we can reach
full articulation even with the SB, we know the coil spring has a higher
spring rate than the SB. However, the SB acting against the coil spring
reduces the pressure the tire can exert to the ground at anything
less than 100% articulation. If you put both front tires on corner
scales and then started jacking one side up from underneath the scale,
what you'd see is:
1. with SB the full weight of the front of the truck quickly transfers
to the raised corner, and off of the drooped corner, even with
the drooped tire still touching the ground.
2. without SB, a slower increase in weight on the raised corner
and greater weight on the drooped corner, only decreasing significantly
right before the drooped tire leaves the ground.
Sway bars create weight transfer, and removing them decreases
weight transfer which improves motive grip especially on the
corner that the weight would usually transfer from.
On a side note, the reason that many people report that the truck
"drives better" with no front sway bar, is that it tends to
decrease understeer on dry pavement, because there's less weight
transfer while cornering up front (for the same reasons there's
less weight transfer offroad), which also improves front end lateral
traction while the rear end traction either remains the same or
decreases a bit due to increased body roll and its coupling
to the rear suspension. My suspension tuning experience
comes from track, but the physics is the same.
ian
connected, it still has a significant effect on traction, or lack thereof
on the drooped side.
A sway bar is like having a supplemental "anti-spring". On the side with
the most droop the sway bar is acting against the force of the coil spring.
The coil spring is trying to extend the suspension and the sway bar is
trying to prevent it from extending. Because we know we can reach
full articulation even with the SB, we know the coil spring has a higher
spring rate than the SB. However, the SB acting against the coil spring
reduces the pressure the tire can exert to the ground at anything
less than 100% articulation. If you put both front tires on corner
scales and then started jacking one side up from underneath the scale,
what you'd see is:
1. with SB the full weight of the front of the truck quickly transfers
to the raised corner, and off of the drooped corner, even with
the drooped tire still touching the ground.
2. without SB, a slower increase in weight on the raised corner
and greater weight on the drooped corner, only decreasing significantly
right before the drooped tire leaves the ground.
Sway bars create weight transfer, and removing them decreases
weight transfer which improves motive grip especially on the
corner that the weight would usually transfer from.
On a side note, the reason that many people report that the truck
"drives better" with no front sway bar, is that it tends to
decrease understeer on dry pavement, because there's less weight
transfer while cornering up front (for the same reasons there's
less weight transfer offroad), which also improves front end lateral
traction while the rear end traction either remains the same or
decreases a bit due to increased body roll and its coupling
to the rear suspension. My suspension tuning experience
comes from track, but the physics is the same.
ian
