sschaefer3

So the real entire reason to convert to a straight front axle is that both front tires carry the weight of the truck all the time or at least most of the time, a lot more than an IFS truck.

So as long as you have not gone past the limits of your suspensions movement with a SA front you will always have equal pressure on both front tires.

With IFS you are only going to have pressure on the tire that is stuffed, the other hanging there. Could even be on the ground but if the weight of the truck is on the other tire your traction will suffer.

So if you leave the sway bar connected it will actually add pressure to the drooped tire. No I know for a fact that on the RTI ramp you can go higher with the bar disconnected, but the RTI ramp is anything but real life.

Point being is that on our recent Rubicon Run Casey left his front bar connected and did really well. Curious isn't it.

FilthyRich

was there any comparison with them disconnected??

sschaefer3

No, it was working so well, we never tried.

sschaefer3

Just to be clear, no one is disputing that you will get more up and down movement of the arms with the bar disconnected.

The thought is that that extra is useless and with the bar connected less is more due to the weight distribution.

FilthyRich

it makes PEFECT sense. Plus, the chance of axle breakgage is less too

sschaefer3

Ok here is a pic.



Could be anyone, it does not matter. This pic just shows it well.

The Passenger tire has all the weight of the truck and with no weight on that drivers side tire, it's like pissing into the wind.

3 wheel drive.



The weight of the truck is on BOTH front tires. This is the advantage of a SA, not your RTI scores or how high you can jack it up. The other advantage is stronger drivetrain parts.

So the theory here is leaving the bar connected may very well add pressure to the drooped wheel and help, which in my opinion would be better than spreading the penguin flippers a bit further apart.

Just a theory, try it yourself.

Cebby

You could get the best of both worlds with disco'd sway bar and cross linked airshocks, no?

FilthyRich

Those with the Tundra/TRD setup might want to invest in limiting straps to help keep breakage down

sschaefer3

Do the air shocks push down or apply pressure to the drooped wheel?

3rd Gen's and Tacoma's would not have an air shock option though. Coil/shock combo.

Nitro Hotpants

This is exactly what needs to be done if running this setup. I actually found that with the Tundra/OME combo, I can reach NEARLY maximum droop without the sway-bar being disconnected.
The point is, I left it connected for the main reason I wanted to keep the chance of breaking to a minimum. And I was fortunate enough to keep all of my IFS parts intact on the Rubicon. With the sway-bar disconnected the Tundras will droop like mad, about the best as you can get without going long travel.

I think what it comes down to (at least for me) is that I would rather sacrifice flex for strength. Sure, people can flex better than me, but if there isnt enough weight on that flexed out tire, it only looks cool. It won't have enough weight on it to pull you up an obstacle.
With IFS flex (or the lack there of) you need to realize that you have to find a different line that will be do-able for the capabilities of your truck. Being on the trail with 3 other SA rigs, I had to find different lines for everything because I knew the limits of my truck.

-Casey

bamachem

i think you have it all wrong about that, steve, and here's why...

w/ the sway bar connected, it tries to force the two front wheels to move in unison. by having one stuffed all the way, the sway bar simply applies UPWARD force to the opposite tire by the inherent design. on the street, the sway bar opposes independent motion somewhat. all that will happen by having the sway bar connected is to effectively limit droop AND stuff somewhat. it won't help to even out any loads. the only way to even out the loads is to have equal forces on the tires. the only way to have that is to have both of them contact the ground.

since the swaybar tries to make the suspension travel in unison, then not only will it inhibit droop, but it could also transfer some of the forces exerted on one wheel by a stuff to the other wheel, and therefore reduce it's potential contact patch and also it's weight/load of the system.

stuff one wheel w/ the swaybar attached and it could limit the travel of the other wheel getting to the ground and therefore will limit weight distribution...

Flygtenstein

The swaybar acts like limiting straps in a sense.

I am confused as to why people are hell bent on IFS travel. One at full droop does nothing to the other at full stuff.

A buddy here runs ADD front with a locker and the swaybar connected at all times. He rarely breaks and on 32" AT's drives darn near everything.

IFS is queer. Get belly clearance and breakover. Approach and departure, travel is gravy.

sschaefer3

IFS is queer.

Andy I see what your saying. The U shaped sway bar does act like you said, but just for giggles, how about a Z shaped sway bar, connect to the back of one arm and the front of the other, you know what I mean.

Now maybe that won't work on the street then. So how does that Currie Anti-Rock sway bar work?

Also now we have Casey and this guy Cheese knows that leave it connected and do really well ???

What's up with that? It goes against every prinipal of Web Wheeling?

sschaefer3

Currie Ent. not the tastey Curry from all the job snatchers.

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/antirock.aspx

AxleIke

I've found that with my front swaybar disco'd it helps to keep my rear wheels on the ground. This has only been observed in a situation with alternating holes. With the front able to flex a bit more, my rear tires can actually stay on the ground better, and since i only have a traction aiding device in the rear, i need them to be in contact more so than the front. My front will spin regardless, like in loose dirt, only the wheel with the least traction spins.

However, i think this theory may be correct if you have a front locker. If both wheels are able to drive, then it makes more sense to keep as much weight on both the front wheels as possible.

deathrunner

I disagree. with an open front, my priotity is to keep both front tires on the ground. I just need enough weight to keep the traction. As fas as I can tell, I have never lifted a front tire since I switched to the long travel arms. With the traction aid in the rear, I know that if I lift a rear tire, I still have a tire pushing. If I lift a front then the front is out of commision completely. With 2 fronts and 1 rear touching I have more tires pulling than 2 rear and no front.

I'm not sure I see how the sway bar helps to transfer weight. Knowing that it limits travel and that our desire is to keep the tires on the ground, I can see two scenarios when it is connected.

1) It will limit the travel and only come in contact when the vehichles weight is shifted forward enough to cause the vehicle to lean forward and unto the unloaded tire.

2) It will keep the arms connected and cause one tire to lift.

I see both of these scenarios as undesireable. I would rather have my arm reach down and touch the ground with enough load to allow the spider gears to work. And I wouldn't want to rely on my weight shifting to make the very limited arms make contact.

I don't doubt that these vehichles were capable with the swaybar connected. I'm just not sure why you correlate the sway bar to weight transfer.

IFS is queer.

Nitro Hotpants

I'm not sure if I understand the weight transfer idea with the sway-bar connected either.

It seemed to me that on the trail we decided to keep my sway-bar connected because with the Tundras, I have too much droop and I wanted to keep as much strength as possible in the IFS.
And the only times I really lifted a tire anyway was on Cadillac hill where my rear bumper was in the ground and my front passenger tire was wayyy in the air. I had to winch up that anyway, I dont think more travel would have changed the outcome.

Praufet

Isn't a sway bar basically kinda like a torsion bar? My understanding is it tries to keep the wheels in a neutral position (i.e. wheel goes up, forces it down, goes down, forces up etc.) With most people running larger than stock tires, the added weight should cause the swaybar to flex more than enough. If you are running a larger addco swaybar for better handling on the street, I'd probably use discos.

Steve- The currie anti-rock bar is just a torsion bar with pivots on the end, you could probably do similar system just using old ifs stuff.

FilthyRich

If you had limiting straps for the Tundra coils would the swaybar disconnected make a difference then?? strength??

Nitro Hotpants

Not sure. I mean the reality of it is that I need limiting straps because even with the bar connected I still have too much down travel. I will be getting the limit straps installed before I go wheeling again. But at this point, I dont feel that disconnecting the sway bar will help at all.

Keep in mind this is with the Tundra/OME setup only. I can't vouch for other setups.