Wal-Mart Synthetic Oil
04-15-2004, 07:22 AM
#21
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Wal-mart is evil and doesn't pay their employees crap and they'll move into your neighborhood and create a new poverty level by underpaying employees and the money you think you are saving will be used to support their employees through your taxes. Wal-mart is destroying good businesses and is just one big monster that is ruining honest places of work. Do some research and you might re-think shopping there.
04-15-2004, 08:18 AM
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There are times when stores do sell different quality items for cheaper. Home Depot and Lowes sells 2nds on things like plumbing fixtures. This is OK by me though, because it should just be cosmetic. This wouldn't be true with oil.
Please don't get me wrong, I never said Wal-Mart synthetic (Quaker State syn) oil is bad, its just not a true synthetic like M1. For me spending $7 more for the M1 is worth it. M1 has proven to be one of the best oils out there. From what I've heard group III (Quaker State syn) oils offer no advantages over regular dino oil but are more expensive.
Oil additives can vary greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer. M1 might work well in one engine and not in another. Quaker State will be the same way. Let us know the results of the analysis.
For info on the differences of imitation syn and true syn check out http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi? .
search for words like group III, group IV, group V, PAO, hydrocracked
this is one discussion of Wal-Mart Super Tech Full Synthetic
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=1;t=000455
Please don't get me wrong, I never said Wal-Mart synthetic (Quaker State syn) oil is bad, its just not a true synthetic like M1. For me spending $7 more for the M1 is worth it. M1 has proven to be one of the best oils out there. From what I've heard group III (Quaker State syn) oils offer no advantages over regular dino oil but are more expensive.
Oil additives can vary greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer. M1 might work well in one engine and not in another. Quaker State will be the same way. Let us know the results of the analysis.
For info on the differences of imitation syn and true syn check out http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi? .
search for words like group III, group IV, group V, PAO, hydrocracked
this is one discussion of Wal-Mart Super Tech Full Synthetic
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=1;t=000455
04-15-2004, 09:32 AM
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Now that it's been mentioned several times on this thread, could someone please define "TRUE synthetic"? I can't find it in stores! LOL
Last edited by TaterN; 04-15-2004 at 09:33 AM.
04-15-2004, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by X-AWDriver
Wal-mart is evil and doesn't pay their employees crap and they'll move into your neighborhood and create a new poverty level by underpaying employees and the money you think you are saving will be used to support their employees through your taxes. Wal-mart is destroying good businesses and is just one big monster that is ruining honest places of work. Do some research and you might re-think shopping there.
04-15-2004, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tom4416
Sorry, but that's what capitalisim is all about. How did Sears, and the K-Mart, go from being #1 in retail to letting a relative newcomer like Wally World becomes the worlds largest corporation - by being complacement and not being innovative. I've heard that old song about putting other businesses out of business when WM comes to town but that's because people try to compete instead of compliment. Wal-Mart sells everything to fix a toilet but they don't sell toilets so sell toilets in your hardware store, don't try to compete on the other stuff. Wal-Mart managers are instructed to work closely with small businesses who sell complimentary products, including a referral network when they don't have what a customer wants. A Wal-Mart store can revitalize a dead retail area and create opportunities for small busines people who are willing to CHANGE. There is a Tweeter"s high end audio store that deliberately opened up next door to the super walmart in Fredericksburg, Va. They don't try and carry the $399.00 TV but their there for the customer who discovers they want something a little more high end. I've had the manager from Tweeter's speak to my marketing class on several occassions and he said it has been a very successful strategy for the company and that the Wal-Mart manager and he belong to the chamber, rotary, etc. and the WM store sends him business everyday (and he does the same in return). Sorry to get off on a soapbox, it's just that people get envious of capitalistic success and start calling it evil when in fact it's the American Dream and can work to everyone's benefit if properly viewed.
04-15-2004, 11:38 AM
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As I remember from Bobistheoilguy site true synthetic oil is made from group IV,V basestocks which are PAO's (polyalphaolefins). These are man made and resemble nothing from nature. Group I,II oils are just refined crude with additives. Group III oil is an oil that is chemically altered to have synthetic characteristics but is still refined crude. Type III oil has better characteristics than I,II but lacks some that type IV,V. Castrol may have been the first to call their type III oil synthetic, and were sued by Mobil. Since the court couldn't figure what to call the type III oil they left it at "synthetic".
An experiment I remember many doing on the site is to put a conventional dino oil, type III "synthetic", and a type IV,V synthetic oil in the freezer at zero degees or less. The type I,II,III will be very thick when poured, but the type IV,V will flow easily. This is the one characteristic they have which helps reduce damage on cold starts.
An experiment I remember many doing on the site is to put a conventional dino oil, type III "synthetic", and a type IV,V synthetic oil in the freezer at zero degees or less. The type I,II,III will be very thick when poured, but the type IV,V will flow easily. This is the one characteristic they have which helps reduce damage on cold starts.
04-15-2004, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by toybox
I would agree with all that but you did not mention the low wages. Sure they bring jobs to an area but they are low wage jobs. If they could be who they are AND offer decent wages than that would be HEALTHY competition.
DOn't get me wrong, I go to Wallyworld too (I just try to weigh my low prices against my perceived view of their actions)
04-15-2004, 11:46 AM
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Look Out, Ridiculously Off Topic!
I think the number is something close to 50% for Wal-Mart workers who qualify for food stamps.
What does this mean? No health care, so employees and their children must get sick enough (meaning emergency room) to go to the hospital and then drain state and federal gov't of money that might be better spent on the food stamps.
And as for the creating new jobs stuff, lookie here.
I seriously have no problem with people who shop at Wal-Mart, but i think YOU MUST admit to yourself that you are supporting a corporation who works hard to limit both American and foreign freedoms, drives the US dollar down, and helps increase the national deficit by supplying very little in terms of healthcare, etc. to its workers.
So I helped threadjack this from what it was, and I'm sort of sorry for that.
But still,I think it is important to everyday think about how you yourself are living in order to assure that we can stretch this; the last days of our American Democracy, out for as long as we can.
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. -Abraham Lincoln, in a letter to (Col.) William F. Elkins, Nov. 21, 1864, five months before his assasination
THREADJACKING LEVEL RED - HIGHEST ALERT
What does this mean? No health care, so employees and their children must get sick enough (meaning emergency room) to go to the hospital and then drain state and federal gov't of money that might be better spent on the food stamps.
And as for the creating new jobs stuff, lookie here.
I seriously have no problem with people who shop at Wal-Mart, but i think YOU MUST admit to yourself that you are supporting a corporation who works hard to limit both American and foreign freedoms, drives the US dollar down, and helps increase the national deficit by supplying very little in terms of healthcare, etc. to its workers.
So I helped threadjack this from what it was, and I'm sort of sorry for that.
But still,I think it is important to everyday think about how you yourself are living in order to assure that we can stretch this; the last days of our American Democracy, out for as long as we can.
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. -Abraham Lincoln, in a letter to (Col.) William F. Elkins, Nov. 21, 1864, five months before his assasination
THREADJACKING LEVEL RED - HIGHEST ALERT
04-15-2004, 11:49 AM
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I know this is a forum about Toyota's and not Wal-Mart so for those wondering what this is all about, I apologize. One last comment - I've never noticed anyone chained to Wal-Mart, they all appear free to leave, improve their education and skills and find jobs with real wages. Fortunately for Wal-Mart, there will always be people content with minimum wage jobs. Wages follow the law of supply and demand like all other services and commodites. If people are willing (willing being the operative word) to work for minimum wage, why should any corporation (that answers to stockholders by the way) pay more that what the market is demanding? WM cultivates it's star employees, promotes them, gives them raises, etc.. A store manager for Wal-Mart makes a good living. Just because the high school drop out working in sporting goods doesn't isn't WM's fault, it's that persons fault for not improving themselves. Oh, and I doubt we would all be happy about the higher prices we'd have to pay if WM gave everybody a 20% raise! Remember when WM got on the "made in America" kick? Sales dropped 18% on related items because of the higher prices than imported goods. The customer was clearly saying - "I want it as cheap as I can get it, forget the fact it's being made by a 12 year old in China". Okay, enought about corporate ethics, I'm going to go take a run through the mud bog!
04-15-2004, 12:47 PM
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I agree with Tom.
If you dont like what Walmart is willing to pay you, then DONT WORK THERE!
Oh, and I'm also anxiously awaiting the results of this Wally Synthetic oil. Pretty cheap. I might have to get some if it is good stuff. Sure, maybe it isnt as good as Mobil 1, but Im too cheap to buy Mobil 1.
If you dont like what Walmart is willing to pay you, then DONT WORK THERE!
Oh, and I'm also anxiously awaiting the results of this Wally Synthetic oil. Pretty cheap. I might have to get some if it is good stuff. Sure, maybe it isnt as good as Mobil 1, but Im too cheap to buy Mobil 1.
04-15-2004, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tom4416
I'm sorry but if an oil is labeled 100% synthetic, I can't believe it's just super refined dino oil. Even Mobil 1 starts with a petroleum base stock and adds compounds and additives to it that creates a different long chain molecular structure than dino oil. I also don't believe for a second that Wal-Mart is putting their label on inferior products. As the world's largest company, it's has the ability to dictate terms and pricing to many, if not most, of their suppliers. Someone representing Hoover Vacuum cleaners once told me they sell to Wal-Mart at minimal profit but that you can't afford not to be in Wal-Mart because of the ancillary sales (bags, belts). As for their dino oil, I've got the proof in the various oil analysis that I've had done that is just as good as leading brands so why would anyone expect their synthetic to be any different. As for extended oil changes using Amsoil, I think people who take that risk are assuming a much bigger risk of engine damage using their snake oil selling. Plus the Wal-Mart synthetic meets all the German and Corvette standards which, as I understand it, goes way beyond the normal SAE gradings. The extended oil changes on the BMW's, Porsche's, etc. are because they do hold 10 to 12 quarts. Takes longer to break it down and you've got that much more additive. Still, I think someone with a 80K Mercedes who follows their 20,000 or 2 year recommendation is insane, IMHO. In any case, I'll see what the analysis shows, post the results and people can make up their own minds. Personally, saving $10.00 a time on an oil change that I'm going to do every 5K regardless of oil brand and type is worth it to me, perhaps not to others. I've got far more confidence in that system than trying to extended the life of Amsoil or Mobil 1 because you think it doesn't hurt the engine.
04-16-2004, 05:34 AM
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Well, I guess part of the reason I don't believe in this is that it voids your warranty which is enough incentive to me to do better than the manufacturers recommendations.
04-16-2004, 04:11 PM
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Well, if you read you warranty coverage closely, you must have proof of maintenance for a warranty engine repair. That can include either receipts from repair facilities or receipts from purchasing the necessary supplies to do it yourself and a log of the mileage and time changes. If you ever make an engine claim, Toyota will test your oil for compliance with SAE standards, your oil filter, and will run test on the life of the oil versus the same product new. They are pretty resistant to dropping a 10K motor (V8 or V6) into a car without proof of maintenance. You might be surprised how close they can get to the actual mileage on the oil in your truck when doing comparative analysis to the same product in a virgin state. When I get the analysis back from my little $20.00 lab work, it always references extending (or shortening) the change interval so they can obviously determine the remaining additivies, etc. in the used product. I keep receipts for everything I buy and an excel spreadsheet for date/mileage/service, just in case. I firmly believe that if someone is playing the Amsoil 15K change game, Toyota would discover it in a heartbeat and deny the claim based on improper maintenance and I don't believe the consumer would have a leg to stand on, IMHO.
04-16-2004, 05:03 PM
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My, my.... how convenient to spout, "If you don't care to work at WalMart, then don't."
Try telling that to someone who has lost their job because WM came into town and undercut all the speciality retailers with their "low low prices" to the point where they had to close down.
Try going into WM on a Saturday afternoon for a 15/16 drill bit after all your hardware stores have closed down.
Try going into WM for a automotive-specific part (more specific than air fresheners or oil) after all the auto parts stores have closed down.
Then, my ignorant friend, be sure to gloat about the good prices you got.
WM is the devil. If they come to your town, mark my words........ YOU ARE SCREWED.
Randy
WalMart S U C K S
Try telling that to someone who has lost their job because WM came into town and undercut all the speciality retailers with their "low low prices" to the point where they had to close down.
Try going into WM on a Saturday afternoon for a 15/16 drill bit after all your hardware stores have closed down.
Try going into WM for a automotive-specific part (more specific than air fresheners or oil) after all the auto parts stores have closed down.
Then, my ignorant friend, be sure to gloat about the good prices you got.
WM is the devil. If they come to your town, mark my words........ YOU ARE SCREWED.
Randy
WalMart S U C K S
04-16-2004, 05:47 PM
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No, I've never had a warranty issue with Toyota but believe they are no different than any other manufacturer - proof of adherence to the required maintenance schedule. I put a lot of faith in Pat Goss (Motorweek) who does a radio call in show every weekend here in the D.C. area. He claims that all of these extended oil change recommendations are snake oil, including his own Mercedes that recommends 2yr/20K intervals (he does his at 5K, regardless). Obviously this is a case of to each his own I just think I stand a better chance of a new engine than someone who is following a 20K routine with Amsoil. As the saying goes, YMMV!
04-17-2004, 12:05 PM
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Snake oil??? You realize that the oil companies are the ones telling us to use and buy their product less? It really doesn't make sense if it wasn't true. I have seen the tests and the independent tests. They are all over the net.
04-17-2004, 12:29 PM
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Well, the car manufacturers recommend extended oil change intervals because it will require replacement of the car sooner. Oil companies use it to justify the cost of their product (I'm not sure that Mobil 1 recommends extended oil changes). I've not seen a warranty from Amsoil that says if you follow their recommendations, and you have an oil related failure, they will replace your engine. Perhaps they do (Quaker State did many years ago up to 100K miles) and I'm just not aware of it. I say snake oil because I went to an Amsoil demonstration where the rep made a big deal out of their system removing carbon black from the oil. He seemed to think that clean oil was good oil although he obviously never owned a diesel engine (oil is black within miles) or understood the color of the oil has little or nothing to do with its ability to protect your engine. Many years ago there was a product on the market called Wolf's Head oil which was "recycled oil" with the additives returned. Looked just like new oil, provided little protection to your engine. I say again, if people are comfortable with extended change intervals, great, its their engine at risk, not mine. In fairness to BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. one of the reasons they recommend such extended change intervals is the volume of oil held by their vehicles and the fact that it is synthetic oil but I still wouldn't risk premature engine wear for the sake of the cost of an oil change.
