TStango

I've had my MT/R's for about 5 months now. I rotated them a few weeks a go and experienced vibration in the steering wheel. So, yesterday I went to the Toyota dealership and had the fronts re-balanced. They balanced the pass front but it took 3.5 ounces of weight on the outside and 1.5 on the inside. The service manager told me they were unable to balance the driver front because it had such a huge road force variance of 48. He said 16 would normally be considered high. According to them it's a bad tire. But on my ride home from the dealership, much to my suprise, I discovered the vibes were gone and the steering is smooth how it should be. Should I look into this road force variance further or just be happy with my smooth ride?:pat:

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Yes, you should. Driving around on a bad tire is dangerous. I had mine done last week and they all came out around 14, so I was okay but he said if I had had any in the 30s that I should get the tires replaced because they are bad. Take it back to who you bought it from and get a new warranteed tire for free.

My 0.02



Brian

TStango

Thanks Brian,

It's too bad I bought the tires where I did. The owner of the tire shop is not friendly at all and said (when I bought them) he doesn't warranty off-road tires. But Goodyear is responsible for defects, right?
I have a receipt from yesterday that says right on it that a tire has excessive road force variance and they marked the tire for me with a yellow crayon with an arrow and the number 48.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Goodyear should replace your tire and he should get it done for you. I'd make damn sure he did it or I'd report his sorry ass to the Better Business Bureau. Don't let an irresonsible business off the hook.



Brian

ravencr

I'd definitely follow on it too!

Chris

Gadget

I am guessing that the 48 tire is now on the rear axle?

The newer versions of the GSP9700 can also measure radial pull and it will tell the operator where on the vehicle each tire should be placed so that it drives as straight as possible and has the least vibration.

When I had my MT/Rs mounted I also had one at 48 and it was rejected. The shop ordered a new tire and replaced it with no hassle at all. The new one had a much lower road force and was a night and day difference.

When you say you no longer have a vibration, I am simply amazed. Mine shook like crazy, but with it on the rear you won't feel it in the steering.

There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what road force is. It is totally difference then ballance. You can have a perfectly ballanced tire and it can still induce a vibration from high road force variation.

Road Force variation has to do with how round the tire is when the weight of the vehicle is on it and it rolls down the road. If it is not round you can have problems. You can have a tire that appears to be perfectly round, but when the wieght of the vehicle is placed on it that can change. There are variences in how stiff the sidewalls of the tires are and that can lift and drop the truck as it rolls inducing a vibration.

Of course no tire is completely round. Some spots are high while others low. The wheels are not perfectly round either.

What the GSP9700 does is puts a load on the tire and measures the roundness of the tire, the variences of the sidewall stiffness and the roundness of the wheel. Then it tells the operator how to position the tire on the wheel to give the lowest force variation and that results in the smoothest ride possible. THEN the wheel/tire assembly is balanced.

The problem you are going to be faced with is that tire manufacturers HATE the GSP9700 because it rejects so many tires. It does not mean that the tires are dangerous or bad, just will not provide a smooth ride. Tire manufacturers have taken the position that the GSP9700 can not reject a tire and a high road force variation does not mean the tire needs to be replaced under warranty.

The best way to approach this is to simply complain that the tire has to much vibration and the installer can not correct it. Using that approach will usually work. The shop that sold them to you should take care of this for you. If not complain to Goodyear about them.

In the future, always buy your tires from a shop with the GSP9700 and the no how and desire to use it properly. If there is any problems they can take care of it right on the spot.

Now, if you are not having any vibration at all, I would not worry about it. After all what is wrong?

I still have a bit of vibration in my MT/Rs and all of them are over 15 pound of force variation. After a long time of searching, I have finally found a shop that will shave them to make them round and I hope that will cure the rest of the vibration. I may need to do the GSP9700 thing again afterwards. I am hoping to get this done next Friday.

If it works and it makes me happy, it will be time to regear!

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

Victor

I have about 8000 miles on my MT/R's. They still ride as smooth as they did new but they have gotten a little noisier. They are at about the noise my old AT's were at. Their dry and wet traction has improved. I only noticed vibrations while driving on I-10 East through Arizona. As soon as I hit New Mexico the road surface changed and it was dead smooth again.

Same thing happened on I-5 in Seattle with the Goodyear's on my wife's Jetta last summer so obviously the road force numbers can mean a lot depending on what kind of surface you are driving on.

Flygtenstein

One of the times that I had my MT/R's on a Hunter, none of the 4 measured less than 40 Road Force. Too bad I did not purchase the tires from that shop.

A month after that, I took my parent's Sequoia there for new shoes and they rejected a Revo that measured in the 20's. The sum of the road force on all 4 tires on that rig was less than my best MT/R.

If it is out of round and vibrates, complain loud and long to the shop that sold them too you.

If it now is smooth, then the problem is solved.

I tried for 7k miles to get my tires rebalanced. This was mostly because I did not spend much time in the speed range where they vibrated. I then complained to the shop I bought them from, they jerked me around for a month and finally I went on a 13k mile road trip for the summer. After all that wheeling and road time, they wore into a smoother pattern and are quite tolerable.

ravencr

With all this talk about the MT/R's being out of round and hard to balance it's making my decision to stick purchase the Bridgestone M/T's even easier and easier.

Chris

Victor

I need to dig up my receipt when I had my tires originally mounted. There were no unusual findings but they did take quite a bit of weight to balance them. Perhaps there are batches of bad MT/R's out there? No matter, I love these tires like noone's business so I will go with them again when I go up to 285/75r16.

TStango

The 48 tire is back where it was on the front driver side. The weights were left untouched on it. The only thing they changed yesterday was the weights on the pass front tire. For some reason that eliminated all vibrations. I have a smooth steering wheel at all ranges of speed. That's what is weird about it.

If it is not a safety issue, than I'd rather not mess with it. Even if the tire shop does replace it, there is a really good chance that they wouldn't be able to balance the new one properly. Then I'll have to go to the dealer and pay them again to use the Hunter.
Thanks for all the input.
-Tim

TStango

Well, I knew all that smoothness would be short-lived. Since I've gotten the Procomp steel rims, I'm faced with vibration issues again. I had that one bad tire balanced again today at the dealership. I told them it was a problem tire but assured them that I did have a smooth ride the last time they ran it on their machine. Now they are telling me there is a road force variance of 78lb's!!! I should have addressed this when I first started this thread. I bought the tires last April and am having a hard time finding the receipt.
I found a number to call at goodyear but I don't see how anything can be done without a valid purchase date. Also, lets say they did replace it, wouldn't be a bad idea to run a new tire with the other three that have 12k of wear on them?

BruceTS

I mounted my MT/R's, then went over to a local 4x4 shop and had them balance the wheels. 2.5, 4.25, 4.5, and 4.75 oz. of weight was needed. They ride a lot smoother than I was expecting, view through my mirrors, they run as true as my BFG A/T's.

Flygtenstein

I have had better than a pound of weight on one wheel before.

Get angry and make them fix what they should fix. Also be aware that steel wheels being cheap and heavy are less likely to be completely true and will exagerate out of balance issues.