ECU doesn't go into Open Loop!
05-20-2007, 10:57 PM
#21
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I didn't change the wiring to the fuel pump. I heard that it draws about the same amount of power as the Denso. Well I haven't had the fuse go out on me so it must be okay.
The 7th injector is not powered although the wiring is in place from the TRD kit and it is connected to the fuel line.
On my FTC I have cells with 8.9 too and still run rich and I have pretty much the same readings on my A/F as you.
With the FTC you can trick the ECU to thinking that the fuel ratio is optimum by adjusting the trims along the curve so you can skew the ratio only within the limits until the ECU cannot adjust anymore before flaggin a faliure that triggers the Check Engine and VSC light. At this point it resorts to open loop settings which is even more rich that the previous condition.
With the TRD 7th injector kit I couldn't even reach 90 mph the engine was choking on fuel because the map is not adjustable. With the URD it's adjustable and so I can reach 120mph but still the WOT limits me because it's still too rich.
I think that the super FMU should be able to set a lower overall fuel pressure under bot loop conditions including WOT and fine tune the curve. Therefore technically we won't need to make large trims to cut fuel using the FTC. We can then also use the 7th injector to add the final touch without fearing too much fuel.
What I did on the weekend was unplug the existing fuel pressure regulator from the manifold pressure outlet and pluged the vacum line with a nipple so that it's pretty much atmospheric. It does feel a bit better than before, but I need to give the ECU some time to learn or reset the ECU to see if it was any better.
Either way, with over 10 PSI I think the system just needs a good tunable FMU to do the job right. Let's see how it goes.
Shahab
The 7th injector is not powered although the wiring is in place from the TRD kit and it is connected to the fuel line.
On my FTC I have cells with 8.9 too and still run rich and I have pretty much the same readings on my A/F as you.
With the FTC you can trick the ECU to thinking that the fuel ratio is optimum by adjusting the trims along the curve so you can skew the ratio only within the limits until the ECU cannot adjust anymore before flaggin a faliure that triggers the Check Engine and VSC light. At this point it resorts to open loop settings which is even more rich that the previous condition.
With the TRD 7th injector kit I couldn't even reach 90 mph the engine was choking on fuel because the map is not adjustable. With the URD it's adjustable and so I can reach 120mph but still the WOT limits me because it's still too rich.
I think that the super FMU should be able to set a lower overall fuel pressure under bot loop conditions including WOT and fine tune the curve. Therefore technically we won't need to make large trims to cut fuel using the FTC. We can then also use the 7th injector to add the final touch without fearing too much fuel.
What I did on the weekend was unplug the existing fuel pressure regulator from the manifold pressure outlet and pluged the vacum line with a nipple so that it's pretty much atmospheric. It does feel a bit better than before, but I need to give the ECU some time to learn or reset the ECU to see if it was any better.
Either way, with over 10 PSI I think the system just needs a good tunable FMU to do the job right. Let's see how it goes.
Shahab
05-21-2007, 03:53 AM
#22
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Getting back to the topic... I noticed yesterday running at highway speeds with the cruise control (CC) set 75mph I was in and out of open loop many times during the 40 mile drive. Seems to be go into open loop for the slightest hill at that speed but other times it would go into open loop for no appearent reason (just level ground with the CC set).
I also have the URD a/f sensor calabrator that I suspect is the reason.
05-21-2007, 04:00 PM
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Dale: I will try setting my cruise control and hitting a hill; I'd be interested to see if my truck goes into open loop.
On a side note, I replaced my TPS out of curiosity. Didn't change anything. I'm still in Closed Loop all of the friggin time. My gas mileage is also really bad. 13mpg city. I'm talking to the local toyota service department to see if they have any thoughts on the stuck closed loop operation. I will report back after I talk to them.
On a side note, I replaced my TPS out of curiosity. Didn't change anything. I'm still in Closed Loop all of the friggin time. My gas mileage is also really bad. 13mpg city. I'm talking to the local toyota service department to see if they have any thoughts on the stuck closed loop operation. I will report back after I talk to them.
05-29-2007, 02:04 PM
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I wanted to add that the Runner never gets above 6-7 PSI with a 2.2" pulley. (I'm at sea level) Is this normal operation? Should I be seeing numbers closer to 9 PSI? Could this have anything to do, or be a symptom of why my truck doesn't want to go into open loop?
05-29-2007, 03:05 PM
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Dale: I will try setting my cruise control and hitting a hill; I'd be interested to see if my truck goes into open loop.
On a side note, I replaced my TPS out of curiosity. Didn't change anything. I'm still in Closed Loop all of the friggin time. My gas mileage is also really bad. 13mpg city. I'm talking to the local toyota service department to see if they have any thoughts on the stuck closed loop operation. I will report back after I talk to them.
On a side note, I replaced my TPS out of curiosity. Didn't change anything. I'm still in Closed Loop all of the friggin time. My gas mileage is also really bad. 13mpg city. I'm talking to the local toyota service department to see if they have any thoughts on the stuck closed loop operation. I will report back after I talk to them.
05-31-2007, 01:05 PM
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2.2 pulley should give you 9.5 PSI
I use a 2.0 pulley and I get 10.5-11 PSI
I too get horrible gas milage and it's because using the larger injectors and fuel pump throws the ECU off and I'm always running rich.
occassional pinging at boosted low rpms also causes a power surge that throws the ECU. I'm at sea-level btw.
I recieved my Super FMU from summit racing today. I'll be installing that shortly and I'll let everyone know.
(BTW I broke a valve on one of my cylinders and the head is being worked on as we speak so there will be a a bit of a delay)
I use a 2.0 pulley and I get 10.5-11 PSI
I too get horrible gas milage and it's because using the larger injectors and fuel pump throws the ECU off and I'm always running rich.
occassional pinging at boosted low rpms also causes a power surge that throws the ECU. I'm at sea-level btw.
I recieved my Super FMU from summit racing today. I'll be installing that shortly and I'll let everyone know.
(BTW I broke a valve on one of my cylinders and the head is being worked on as we speak so there will be a a bit of a delay)
05-31-2007, 01:27 PM
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9.5 PSI eh? What are some things that could be stopping my truck from boosting completely?
I picked up the ESC1 today, and I'm going to try and get it installed over the weekend. I'm hoping to get control of my AFR in boosted regions, but I would still def. like to get this open/closed loop issue solved.
The last time I checked (about 4 months ago) it was opening all the way, but maybe I need to take another look.
I picked up the ESC1 today, and I'm going to try and get it installed over the weekend. I'm hoping to get control of my AFR in boosted regions, but I would still def. like to get this open/closed loop issue solved.
Originally Posted by mt_goat
Are you getting the throttle plate to open all the way?
06-07-2007, 05:34 PM
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I hooked up the OBDII scanner and logged a couple of WOT runs. First thing I noticed is that my throttle position never went above 74%. This is more than likely a mis-adjusted throttle cable correct? I also noticed that to get the throttle position to 74% I really have to stomp on that skinny pedal. I am going to adjust a few things over the weekend and I will report back with my results.
06-11-2007, 06:17 PM
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I had a look under the hood today and while my buddy pushed the gas pedal all the way down, there was no more room for the throttle body to open anymore. Furthermore, when I opened up the throttle body all of the way manually (not using the pedal, just moving it by hand), the ODBII scanner again showed 74.5% max. Could this be a wiring issue, or a bad ECU?
I'm thinking that since my trucks computer doesn't see the throttle opening past 74%, it isn't going into to Open Loop nearly as often, or as quickly as it should, resulting in my lean mixture through much of my boost range. Does this sound plausible? It may be a reach since I'm finding myself running out of ideas quickly.
I'm thinking that since my trucks computer doesn't see the throttle opening past 74%, it isn't going into to Open Loop nearly as often, or as quickly as it should, resulting in my lean mixture through much of my boost range. Does this sound plausible? It may be a reach since I'm finding myself running out of ideas quickly.
06-11-2007, 06:28 PM
#31
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I had a look under the hood today and while my buddy pushed the gas pedal all the way down, there was no more room for the throttle body to open anymore. Furthermore, when I opened up the throttle body all of the way manually (not using the pedal, just moving it by hand), the ODBII scanner again showed 74.5% max. Could this be a wiring issue, or a bad ECU?
I'm thinking that since my trucks computer doesn't see the throttle opening past 74%, it isn't going into to Open Loop nearly as often, or as quickly as it should, resulting in my lean mixture through much of my boost range. Does this sound plausible? It may be a reach since I'm finding myself running out of ideas quickly.
I'm thinking that since my trucks computer doesn't see the throttle opening past 74%, it isn't going into to Open Loop nearly as often, or as quickly as it should, resulting in my lean mixture through much of my boost range. Does this sound plausible? It may be a reach since I'm finding myself running out of ideas quickly.
06-11-2007, 06:34 PM
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That's what I was hoping for when I started troubleshooting the issue, and I replaced it with a new one from Toyota. Unfortunately it did not change anything 
06-11-2007, 06:36 PM
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06-20-2007, 11:05 AM
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I spoke with Gadget the other day, and he thinks the issue is with my throttle body. Is there anyone out there in the LA area that would be willing to let me swap out their throttle body for an hour or less? Lunch and gas are on me.
07-04-2007, 09:18 AM
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Does anybody have a BR-3 Log file that I could look at? I'm looking for a log file showing one or two WOT runs. I would like to see how things like engine temp, engine load, timing adv, and intake air flow compare with my logs. I'm hoping to isolate a problem area so I have a better idea of what is causing this issue.
12-09-2007, 06:59 PM
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I am n/a soon to be s/c with 2.2 urd 7th ect. I have been watching my a/f ratio, throttle position, Open closed loop, fuel trip and timing. I have noticed that i never get past 75% throttle position. I go in to open loop, but is it normal to only see 75%, I got a bad TPS code in july and changed it with a new one from the dealer. IF 75% is all it will read im ok with that, the truck makes great power.
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