Better! The Velocity Stack Mod for your airbox (8hp for $3).
07-12-2010, 10:36 AM
#41
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Hey Justin,
Were the headlights turned on during this dyno run? Was the radio on? Are you absolutely sure none of your brakes were dragging and the preload on your wheel bearing was within factory specs?
Finally, did you test this on a red 4Runner in addition to your green one? I've heard they're faster.
See ya in a couple weeks. Keep up the entertainment.
Were the headlights turned on during this dyno run? Was the radio on? Are you absolutely sure none of your brakes were dragging and the preload on your wheel bearing was within factory specs?
Finally, did you test this on a red 4Runner in addition to your green one? I've heard they're faster.
See ya in a couple weeks. Keep up the entertainment.
Fink
07-12-2010, 10:53 AM
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07-12-2010, 11:17 AM
#43
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Kinda along the lines of the K&N. will there be a test between True Flow and K&N or other aftermarket drop in types.
- And I dont care about the color of the interior, 3 spoke VS 5 spoke rims, CD player/tape combo factors...
- And I dont care about the color of the interior, 3 spoke VS 5 spoke rims, CD player/tape combo factors...
07-12-2010, 12:09 PM
#45
Any and all dynos are not precision measuring devices, both by design, and by the testing subject (car) and environment (garage). 3-5% is an expected margin of error. I would not try to prove any gain/loss using a technique where the margin of error of the measuring device is so close to the claimed gain/loss.
followed by 
07-12-2010, 01:08 PM
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Any and all dynos are not precision measuring devices, both by design, and by the testing subject (car) and environment (garage). 3-5% is an expected margin of error. I would not try to prove any gain/loss using a technique where the margin of error of the measuring device is so close to the claimed gain/loss.
This is coming from a guy who is inherently a skeptic so I can appreciate skepticism/disbelief.
Fink
07-12-2010, 01:25 PM
#48
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If the same car on the same dyno gets tested twice - once with OEM airbox and once with the velocity stack and one right after the other, doesn't that take the margin of error out of the picture? If there is a 3-5% margin, I don't think that's reffering to the same car, same dyno, same day. Rather I think that figure is referring to the fact that there is a margin of error between car to car, dyno to dyno, and/or as compared to actual real road testing - not this case where everything is the same except the airbox.
07-12-2010, 01:56 PM
#49
If someone makes a claim, does it not logically serve to have valid proof, as well as all possible options for false positives explored? Based on the test data, as seen , I believe this option to be a worthwhile modification so don't get me wrong as one of the dissenters.
I don't, however, feel that the velocity stack setup is any different than the deckplate mod. For me, its just basic math. Less restriction equals more horsepower. You don't need a velocity stack for that, and given that the Velocity stack is only good for 1 (one) hp over just a deckplate, I don't find it all that amazing. Any number of variables could change that HP rating. The advantage to the deckplate is that its resealable so that when in water crossings, you don't have water heading in a direct path through the airbox. The velocity stack isn't resealable in this setup, but for on road applications it would work just fine.
Like I said, I don't doubt the findings. However, YT is a discussion forum. Not a "we agree with everything you say" forum. Any person can make any unfounded claim they wish on the internet, and its easier than ever to fake anything you want (see also: Photoshop). I think the members just want definitive proof, and so far they have been provided with it. There will always be dissenters, as ignorance is easy and most don't dare question common knowledge and OEM research.
I guess what I am saying is, stop trying to stir up the drama and let members ask legitimate questions about this product.
I don't, however, feel that the velocity stack setup is any different than the deckplate mod. For me, its just basic math. Less restriction equals more horsepower. You don't need a velocity stack for that, and given that the Velocity stack is only good for 1 (one) hp over just a deckplate, I don't find it all that amazing. Any number of variables could change that HP rating. The advantage to the deckplate is that its resealable so that when in water crossings, you don't have water heading in a direct path through the airbox. The velocity stack isn't resealable in this setup, but for on road applications it would work just fine.
Like I said, I don't doubt the findings. However, YT is a discussion forum. Not a "we agree with everything you say" forum. Any person can make any unfounded claim they wish on the internet, and its easier than ever to fake anything you want (see also: Photoshop). I think the members just want definitive proof, and so far they have been provided with it. There will always be dissenters, as ignorance is easy and most don't dare question common knowledge and OEM research.
I guess what I am saying is, stop trying to stir up the drama and let members ask legitimate questions about this product.
07-12-2010, 02:05 PM
#50
If someone makes a claim, does it not logically serve to have valid proof, as well as all possible options for false positives explored? Based on the test data, as seen , I believe this option to be a worthwhile modification so don't get me wrong as one of the dissenters.
I don't, however, feel that the velocity stack setup is any different than the deckplate mod. For me, its just basic math. Less restriction equals more horsepower. You don't need a velocity stack for that, and given that the Velocity stack is only good for 1 (one) hp over just a deckplate, I don't find it all that amazing. Any number of variables could change that HP rating. The advantage to the deckplate is that its resealable so that when in water crossings, you don't have water heading in a direct path through the airbox. The velocity stack isn't resealable in this setup, but for on road applications it would work just fine.
Like I said, I don't doubt the findings. However, YT is a discussion forum. Not a "we agree with everything you say" forum. Any person can make any unfounded claim they wish on the internet, and its easier than ever to fake anything you want (see also: Photoshop). I think the members just want definitive proof, and so far they have been provided with it. There will always be dissenters, as ignorance is easy and most don't dare question common knowledge and OEM research.
I guess what I am saying is, stop trying to stir up the drama and let members ask legitimate questions about this product.
I don't, however, feel that the velocity stack setup is any different than the deckplate mod. For me, its just basic math. Less restriction equals more horsepower. You don't need a velocity stack for that, and given that the Velocity stack is only good for 1 (one) hp over just a deckplate, I don't find it all that amazing. Any number of variables could change that HP rating. The advantage to the deckplate is that its resealable so that when in water crossings, you don't have water heading in a direct path through the airbox. The velocity stack isn't resealable in this setup, but for on road applications it would work just fine.
Like I said, I don't doubt the findings. However, YT is a discussion forum. Not a "we agree with everything you say" forum. Any person can make any unfounded claim they wish on the internet, and its easier than ever to fake anything you want (see also: Photoshop). I think the members just want definitive proof, and so far they have been provided with it. There will always be dissenters, as ignorance is easy and most don't dare question common knowledge and OEM research.
I guess what I am saying is, stop trying to stir up the drama and let members ask legitimate questions about this product.
07-12-2010, 06:07 PM
#51
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Hey stick,
First.. I'll get this off my chest...
Your flaming, condescending, and political name calling accusations are not necessary... your credibility with me just went down the toilet like a big brown stinky turd.
I'm very surprised you haven't been spanked by the admins and mods on this, but instead they seem to have defended your butt.
Your data and your assertions, so far are just that..... there is no conclusive results to your magic velocity stack mod.
The idea that anyone reading anything on the net should take it for gospel is utterly ridiculous. There is so much BS spread on any give second on the net it makes one wonder who could come up with so much BS....
I think there may be something to what you are trying to sell, but I'm not buying it based on your posts so far.
Like it's been stated.... there are a number of variables - from test parameters, dyno software, the dyno technician, and many other factors during the testing that can can cause a delta in any given pull that makes the 8 HP figure more than suspicious.
Here's another thing that has always blown my mind.... so some backyard psuedo-auto mechanic wizard comes up with some hair-brained idea to hack up an OEM stock thingy and suddenly it makes an incredible amount of HP.
It's amazing how those little Toyota Japanese auto engineers, arguably the best in the world, working in their mult-billion dollar "garage", with 50 years of experience, could NOT come up with a "velocity stack" made from a $3.00 piece of plastic and gain 8 horsepower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...... amazing....!!!
Maybe your plastic stack does make more HP.... right now I think it is more hype than real, but I'm keeping an open, but highly skeptical, mind.
And again, that's just my worthless opinion.
First.. I'll get this off my chest...
Your flaming, condescending, and political name calling accusations are not necessary... your credibility with me just went down the toilet like a big brown stinky turd.
I'm very surprised you haven't been spanked by the admins and mods on this, but instead they seem to have defended your butt.
Your data and your assertions, so far are just that..... there is no conclusive results to your magic velocity stack mod.
The idea that anyone reading anything on the net should take it for gospel is utterly ridiculous. There is so much BS spread on any give second on the net it makes one wonder who could come up with so much BS....
I think there may be something to what you are trying to sell, but I'm not buying it based on your posts so far.
Like it's been stated.... there are a number of variables - from test parameters, dyno software, the dyno technician, and many other factors during the testing that can can cause a delta in any given pull that makes the 8 HP figure more than suspicious.
Here's another thing that has always blown my mind.... so some backyard psuedo-auto mechanic wizard comes up with some hair-brained idea to hack up an OEM stock thingy and suddenly it makes an incredible amount of HP.
It's amazing how those little Toyota Japanese auto engineers, arguably the best in the world, working in their mult-billion dollar "garage", with 50 years of experience, could NOT come up with a "velocity stack" made from a $3.00 piece of plastic and gain 8 horsepower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...... amazing....!!!
Maybe your plastic stack does make more HP.... right now I think it is more hype than real, but I'm keeping an open, but highly skeptical, mind.
And again, that's just my worthless opinion.
First off, I've never seen him call anybody a name that wasn't within the rules.
Condescending, at times yes but is that against the rules? No.
I agree with your thoughts on how easy it seems to be for people to modify one simple thing on a Yota and BAM, more horsepower.
After doing the deckplate mod though, I was a believer - I could feel a noticeable difference; whether that was cold hard horsepower or not I don't know.
You also say, "his plastic stack" as in he's trying to sell his own velocity stack - that isn't the case here, if it was then I could see where this back and forth would be coming from.
He just did a simple dyno test with another component in place of the deckplate...I don't see any reason why people should assume he's trying to sell anything.
Does he want people to go to the site and read the article? Of course.
Doesn't mean he gets anything by people going out there and buying a velocity stack.
That's just my worthless response to your opinion,
Fink
07-12-2010, 07:13 PM
#52
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As far as the deckplate vs. velocity thingy argument goes.. here is my opinion.
Do I agree these mods add a small amount of power (yes, I have a deckplate. I can feel the little bit of extra power)
Do I agree the velocity stack mod is 'better' in the terms of air flow than the deckplate? Yes, I believe the Venturi effect comes in here.
Am I willing to give up the ability to re-seal my intake box? Not at all.
That's why I will stick with my deckplate.
Do I agree these mods add a small amount of power (yes, I have a deckplate. I can feel the little bit of extra power)
Do I agree the velocity stack mod is 'better' in the terms of air flow than the deckplate? Yes, I believe the Venturi effect comes in here.
Am I willing to give up the ability to re-seal my intake box? Not at all.
That's why I will stick with my deckplate.
07-12-2010, 10:20 PM
#53
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Hah! Thanks to everyone who's commented cordially and supportively - it's the cat's meow for writers like myself. And relax there, sparkles. You haven't offended me. In fact, your posts help me understand your thinking, so I feel better about mine.
As for flaming, I don't think I've done any. Was that too much? In fact, I keep deleting stuff to be sure...
I've got no agenda, nothing to sell, there's no condescension here (just a constant reminder of the facts at play), and if you're not a fan of a little political needling, I suggest you stop watching TV for the next 3-4 years. I was questioning the apparent state of manifold incompetence festering within the Obama administration. If you want to apply that term to yourself, that's your issue.
I came up with some facts, and they're solid. I wanted to share them, and I have. I'm not selling anything, and everyone's traffic on off-road.com is appreciated because that's what we live upon. If you don't believe that I saw 8hp on the dyno from the stack mod, then don't mod your stack.
STaCK
PS> I think I've figured out a way to seal the stack mod, too, so stay tuned.
PPS> I think the OEM figure of 190hp is crank HP, not wheel HP. You must figure a significant parasitic loss from drivetrain parts for horsepower at the wheels, rarely less than 15%, and the figures are further reduced on a road-force dyno.
PPPS> Love my job, love my job, love my job.
As for flaming, I don't think I've done any. Was that too much? In fact, I keep deleting stuff to be sure...
I've got no agenda, nothing to sell, there's no condescension here (just a constant reminder of the facts at play), and if you're not a fan of a little political needling, I suggest you stop watching TV for the next 3-4 years. I was questioning the apparent state of manifold incompetence festering within the Obama administration. If you want to apply that term to yourself, that's your issue.
I came up with some facts, and they're solid. I wanted to share them, and I have. I'm not selling anything, and everyone's traffic on off-road.com is appreciated because that's what we live upon. If you don't believe that I saw 8hp on the dyno from the stack mod, then don't mod your stack.
STaCK
PS> I think I've figured out a way to seal the stack mod, too, so stay tuned.
PPS> I think the OEM figure of 190hp is crank HP, not wheel HP. You must figure a significant parasitic loss from drivetrain parts for horsepower at the wheels, rarely less than 15%, and the figures are further reduced on a road-force dyno.
PPPS> Love my job, love my job, love my job.
07-12-2010, 10:43 PM
#55
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Just ridin' the wave. Who started the whole political thing, anyway?
I should clarify (they're watching the facts reaaaaally close on this one): the bass port was technically never IN a speaker. Like a virgin. I popped that thing right in the airbox...
Stop me!
STICK
I should clarify (they're watching the facts reaaaaally close on this one): the bass port was technically never IN a speaker. Like a virgin. I popped that thing right in the airbox...
Stop me!
STICK
07-12-2010, 11:02 PM
#56
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Well said! 
07-13-2010, 04:39 AM
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This x10000. Who cares whether you listen to Jon Stewart or Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly or Al Franken. Unless those blowhards are providing some forced induction to your engine, I don't think they'll have much to do with a Yota's performance. How bout we keep the TECH forum on TECH topics, eh?
