Thomps

Hi guys,

I am new to this forum and I can't believe the information that is available here!

I wonder if someone could provide me with a couple of answers. Keep in mind that I am by no means a mechanic, nor do I have much mechanical know how or ability.
I recently purchased a 91 pick-up (22R-E) from a friend of mine. I am having to replace the head gasket (just changed the gasket in my '90 4Runner) and my mechanic started asking me about the timing chain.

He is suggesting that the chain be replaced, but tells me that it is a 13 hour book job, which means that I'll have more invested in the T.C. and H.G. than I do in the whole truck.

Question, is the chain an interference timing chain, or a non-interference chain? and does his assment of changing the chain sound reasonable?


thanks guys!

MSR

1: where are you located?

2: how many miles are on the engine

3: it is an interference engine if the chain breaks you have a 50% chance of beating your valves to death

4: thank your friend

Thomps

yeah

located in Ontario.

the truck has 215,000 kms on it (what is that, about 130,000 mi?????) and is in really good shape. I knew I was taking my chances with the head gasket ( I knew it had coolant in the oil) but hadn't really counted on the timing chain. He isn't malicious by any means, and was probably as ignorant about the Timing Chain as I am.


btw. What do you mean a 50% chance? It was my understanding that if it is an interference chain, if it goes, I am the proud owner of a really big paper weight?!

MSR

I've had several customers break and not kill valves only two who did. Those two were on the freeway at speed the others broke in parking lots

MSR

Has the mechanic started yet?

Thomps

well,,, There's some hope then I suppose.

thanks for the reply!

does his estimate for changing the chain sound reasonable?
apparentely he has to drop the front end to get it? Loads of labour involved???



When I bought my 4Runner, I drove it for 4 years without a single problem, maybe this just Karma for something?!

MSR

13 hours is book however i charge 10 hours most times is he doing his own machine work? You have to pull head, then front cover, if you have p/c and a/c it adds to the time.

Thomps

no, he doesn't have a mill, any thing like that would have to be taken into town to be done, (yes, I live that far out, that we still stay take it into town).


well, I guess I have a bit better feel for what I am facing now.

Thanks again for the help!

Thomps

sorry, Didn't see you're other question.

yes, He's changed the H.G. already (was in the process of putting the head back on when the timing chain issue reared it's head)

so the truck is ready to be picked up this afternoon, and I am going to speand the next week or so, just keeping an eye on the oil.

He said that the chain looked "stretched" but it wasn't causing any ticks or noises.

is there no tightener/adjuster on a timing chain, like there is with a belt?

rdlsz24

There is an automatic tensioner, but if the chain is too streched out it won't fix it. It's too bad he didn't do it when he already had the head off. Once you are that far into it it's not a ton more work to do the timing chain and guides.

Rob

Thomps

DAAAH Rob!!!!!


don't say that!

I was told that having the head off wouldn't make any difference with that particular job.






nice truck btw

MSR

what a lie by the 13 hour operation he would be pulling the head again. Not pulling the head tc replacement is only 6 hours. I think its time for a new mechanic

Thomps

yes, That has been a consideration for some time now.

Thankfully I've got a sense of humour about this, now if only I could talk my wife into seeing the funny side of all this.


really,, an out and out blantant lier lier pants on fire kind of lie????

or a I just can't be bothered with this kind of lie?

I guess there really isn't much of a difference is there?

mr_schuster

We got eight hours for that job at the dealer, ten if we stripped the head for the machine shop.

"The chain looks stretched", What?

If your mechanic looked at the chain did he tell you if the guides were broken?
If they are not broken leave it alone until they do break, then make the repair. If they are broken take it somewhere else.

I am curious where he gets his labor times from. You should ask him and find out how he got 13 hours.

Thomps

Hey guys,

thanks for all of your replies and feedback.

I just spoke the mechanic, the head gasket was replaced and the motor is still dumping coolant back into the oil, so I've either got a cracked head or a cracked block (sense of humour fading, wife become increasingly angry). I've spoken to the guy that I bought the truck from and we are going to be able to come to an arangement if need be.

mr_schuster

I bet you thats why he, your mechanic, is pushing the timing chain issue. Its more than possible that the guides are broken and the chain ate through the timing cover and into the cooling passage. I would check that for sure, your mechanic may have misdiagnosed the problem completely. Get a second opinion.

Thomps

Mr. schuster,

Thanks, I am trying to see what options I have available to me,, I've got a lot of calling around to do.

thanks again!

rdlsz24

Doh! He "fixed" the wrong thing. I second the chewed timing cover.

Rob

mr_schuster

I'll tell you what option you should take. Go to the dealer and ask them to inspect the trucks timing chain and guides. Shoudn't cost over .5 hours labor to R&R the valve cover. It's a real common problem on these motors when they get around your mileage. It WILL mix coolant into the oil. If thats the problem, then you can take that piece of paper with you to your mechanic and.....................

Thomps

thanks again.

I spoke to a friend of mine who is a mechanic for a local dealership, he started askign me all kinds of questions like "did he do/ ask/ look at/ this" and was saying that at the very least he should have done a little more research into the histroy of these motors.

So I am going to call the local Toyota dealership this am, and an engine shop he recommended.

Question, when the head was off, should he have done a "compression" check on the head to see if there were any cracks there? I know he saod that he couldn't see any cracks and again, it was back to the head gasket scenario.