Try Amsoil!
04-01-2008, 07:54 PM
#41
Registered User
This warm fuzzy feeling you speak of - why can't Redline or Mobil one or Royal Purple or other synthetic manufacturers offer this same warm fuzzy feeling? Why can't they not only recommend annual oil changes if you want (as long as it's within the mileage rating), but also back it with a warranty as well? Part of me wonders if it's because the other synthetic oil manufacturers utilize Moly in their oils where as Amsoil will not touch this for their synthetic oils. Here is a link just for a little bit of information behind Moly and it's utilization in oils related to extended drain intervals. You may call it propoganda if you want but I think theres probably some truth behind it too. I know for a fact Mobil one (and Royal Purplse as the article states) use Moly - does Redline use it in their synthetic oils? http://www.performancemotoroil.com/R...rple_info.html
The warranty is a marketing thing, IMO.
Stable in the sense that it (10w30) resists burn off better, and it hangs around the middle of it's operating temp viscocity range as opposed to it's slightly thinner at operating temp 0w30 weight oil.
"Resists burn off better", rubbish..... Both are the same thickness at operating temperature and both are too thick when cooled.
"Hangs around in the middle of it's operating temp viscosity range"... ???!!??
You DON'T want a multi viscosity oil "hanging in the middle". You want to get it up to temperature where it flows correctly.
Let's go to school a little here.
Oil (motor oil) thickness is measured in centiStokes (cS). Virtually all engines that you'll likely to run into are designed for the oil to have a thickness of 10 cS to produce the flow required for proper lubrication.
Flow is what lubricates the engine parts.
Let's look at a few numbers here (thickness is measured in cS):
Oil type Thickness at 75*F (cold) Thickness at 212*F (operating Temp)
10W-30 100 10
0W-30 40 10
Note that both oils are way too thick when cold (even at 80*F, 90*F, etc), however the 0W-30 is operating in a much more narrow range of thickness than the 10W-30, so the 0W-30 is more "stable".
A multi oil should ALWAYS used in our engines and the lower number should be no higher than 5 (as in 5W-xx), 0 is even better, under all operating conditions.
Some of the reading I have done over the years suggests that the bigger the difference between the cold and hot viscocity, the more additives you have to put in your oil to compensate for thsoe differences, and over time additives wear out.
Mineral multi-viscosity oils start with a base viscosity of the lower of the numbers. Let's look at a mineral 10W-30 for example.
To make that they use a mineral oil that's has a 10 viscosity "weight" and add viscosity improvers (VI's) such that when the oil is up to temperature it's thickness is 10cS and it flows as the engine's designed for.
One of the many problems with mineral oils is that the VI's wear out over time and, if the oil isn't changed regularly, you end up with a straight 10 weight oil when the VI's have worn out, and that is to thin at operating temperature (6 cS, which is too thin).
This is why many/most vehicle manfs. of these "older" vehicles recommend a 10W-30, say, because they are giving the engine some protection against the numb nuts out there that don't change their oil as often as they should (and remember, synthetic wasn't used much in '95, etc.
). However this comes at the cost of increased wear in the engine at startup (oils too thick to flow properly).Synthetics aren't made the same way. A 0W-30 synthetic starts with a 30 weight base and the way synthetics are made, it has a thickness and flows as a 0W weight oil when cooled. Synthetics don't thin like mineral oils can. They have no VI's to wear out.
Fred
04-01-2008, 08:41 PM
#42
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Sure it's partially marketing, but why can't Redline back their oils like Amsoil?
I appreciate your theory and much of what you have posted I have read in the past. Some of it is just theory though. Take a look at actual oil numbers stats by manufacturers and they don't all seem perfect or line up. For example the 40 Celsius Cst of Amsoil's 0w 5w and 10w30's are all very close (0w=56.56 5w=59 10w=62). The operating temperature viscoscity of them is 10.7 CsT for 5w and 10w but 10.3 for 0w. The pour points of 0w to 10w are very close as well. According to Amsoils data, their 10w30 Synthetic oil does resist burn off better compared to their 5w and 0w oils.
YOu didn't understand what I said about "hanging around in the middle of the viscoscity range" but oh well.
I appreciate your theory and much of what you have posted I have read in the past. Some of it is just theory though. Take a look at actual oil numbers stats by manufacturers and they don't all seem perfect or line up. For example the 40 Celsius Cst of Amsoil's 0w 5w and 10w30's are all very close (0w=56.56 5w=59 10w=62). The operating temperature viscoscity of them is 10.7 CsT for 5w and 10w but 10.3 for 0w. The pour points of 0w to 10w are very close as well. According to Amsoils data, their 10w30 Synthetic oil does resist burn off better compared to their 5w and 0w oils.
YOu didn't understand what I said about "hanging around in the middle of the viscoscity range" but oh well.
04-07-2008, 06:43 PM
#44
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Matt,
I've been pretty adamant about using Mobil one 10w30 synthetic in my truck to date until most recently as you can see. Mobil one has a pretty decent following amongst the synthetic crowd. But if you can notice a difference in how your rig runs going from one synthetic to another, that should tell you something. Maybe not a huge difference, but little subtle things like engine noise, and earlier start ups, etc. Even before I did the engine flush and I ran Amsoil for one change before, I noticed it seemed to have better start ups and there were lots of times it would fire up cold right away with virtually no starter cranking compared to Mobil one which always seemed to require a bit more consistent cranking on the starter.
I also think Amsoil does a better job at marketing their products to the average user. The catalogue I have has a little blurb about every product, and then it lists it's quantities and prices. If you go on the website it has all the technical data readily available on top of the little blurb about what the product does and its intended uses. To date I have ordered not only Amsoil synthetic oils through my preferred customer program, but I've ordered (for myself and/or buddies) VArious Amsoil synthetic gear lubes (Severe Gear 75w90 and Manual tranny and transaxle fluid 75w90), Amsoil synthetic marine gear lube 75w90 (for my boat motor), Amsoil synthetic outboard 2 cycle oil (HP Injector - works great on the Johnson btw), Amsoil synthetic water resistant trailer bearing NLGI No.2 grease for my trailers wheel bearings, Amsoil synthetic heavy duty NLGI no.2 grease for ball joints & drive shaft, etc.,Amsoil Performance improver fuel additive/system cleaner, which worked wonders on my mom's rav4 with high K (it doesn't ping at all anymore if you push the engine! - she has well over 200,000 miles on her original engine and transmission), Amsoil engine flush (crankcase cleaner), and for my buddy with a Landcruiser Diesel engine, some Amsoil Cetane boost additive. All of it arrived promptly (within 5 days or less) and as ordered and I saved compared to the few places that stock just some of the products above. The company is balls to the wall committed to synthetic lubricants.
I've been pretty adamant about using Mobil one 10w30 synthetic in my truck to date until most recently as you can see. Mobil one has a pretty decent following amongst the synthetic crowd. But if you can notice a difference in how your rig runs going from one synthetic to another, that should tell you something. Maybe not a huge difference, but little subtle things like engine noise, and earlier start ups, etc. Even before I did the engine flush and I ran Amsoil for one change before, I noticed it seemed to have better start ups and there were lots of times it would fire up cold right away with virtually no starter cranking compared to Mobil one which always seemed to require a bit more consistent cranking on the starter.
I also think Amsoil does a better job at marketing their products to the average user. The catalogue I have has a little blurb about every product, and then it lists it's quantities and prices. If you go on the website it has all the technical data readily available on top of the little blurb about what the product does and its intended uses. To date I have ordered not only Amsoil synthetic oils through my preferred customer program, but I've ordered (for myself and/or buddies) VArious Amsoil synthetic gear lubes (Severe Gear 75w90 and Manual tranny and transaxle fluid 75w90), Amsoil synthetic marine gear lube 75w90 (for my boat motor), Amsoil synthetic outboard 2 cycle oil (HP Injector - works great on the Johnson btw), Amsoil synthetic water resistant trailer bearing NLGI No.2 grease for my trailers wheel bearings, Amsoil synthetic heavy duty NLGI no.2 grease for ball joints & drive shaft, etc.,Amsoil Performance improver fuel additive/system cleaner, which worked wonders on my mom's rav4 with high K (it doesn't ping at all anymore if you push the engine! - she has well over 200,000 miles on her original engine and transmission), Amsoil engine flush (crankcase cleaner), and for my buddy with a Landcruiser Diesel engine, some Amsoil Cetane boost additive. All of it arrived promptly (within 5 days or less) and as ordered and I saved compared to the few places that stock just some of the products above. The company is balls to the wall committed to synthetic lubricants.
04-07-2008, 10:44 PM
#45
My 22RE pings when pushed. Do you have to add the additive every time you fill up with gas?
That's good to know all that. I am going to stick with Redline MT-90 for the transmission and Heavy Shockproof for the diffs, but I am interested in trying a new engine oil.
That's good to know all that. I am going to stick with Redline MT-90 for the transmission and Heavy Shockproof for the diffs, but I am interested in trying a new engine oil.
04-07-2008, 10:51 PM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 2,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dad - 85 Honda Accord 330k miles (Amsoil whole life!) got rid of because he was tired of working on it.
2002 Honda Accord 120k miles (Amsoil it's whole life!) it's on its third tranny though (auto
Brother - 1994 Toyota truck 4wd 250k miles 31" tires (Amsoil last 50k miles, only went through a head gasket...no other problems)
Other Brother - 1986 Honda Accord Lxi 190k miles (Amsoil last 40k) and has a bypass oil filter. On it's second transmission.
So, please explain why Amsoil recommends changing it once a year but you want us to change every 3 months?
Last edited by 91Toyota; 04-07-2008 at 10:56 PM.
04-08-2008, 05:29 AM
#47
Contributing Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Littleton,CO
Posts: 10,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I change my M1 syn every 8k or 9-10 months whatever comes first and my motor is sludge free (pulled a valve cover for fun last fall) at 137k and I don't see any reason to change now. Pourablity with synthetics is quite a bit different over dino stuff and that's even just at 10F above.
I used M1 in my modded Eclipse and changed my oil once a race season (5k miles) and when the engine was tore down at 117k (it was modded and started it's race days at 40k) it was surprisingly clean and no sludge period.
If it's in a turbo car there's no way I'd trust a dino oil to endure it's trip through from the engine block and then into a turbo charger that's running temps of up to 900F from and back into an engine that's less than half that temp. I never had issues with oil coking on the turbo shaft.
I used M1 in my modded Eclipse and changed my oil once a race season (5k miles) and when the engine was tore down at 117k (it was modded and started it's race days at 40k) it was surprisingly clean and no sludge period.
If it's in a turbo car there's no way I'd trust a dino oil to endure it's trip through from the engine block and then into a turbo charger that's running temps of up to 900F from and back into an engine that's less than half that temp. I never had issues with oil coking on the turbo shaft.
04-08-2008, 04:13 PM
#48
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
[QUOTE=Matt16;50800265]My 22RE pings when pushed. Do you have to add the additive every time you fill up with gas?
[QUOTE]
NO. It's a fuel system cleaner. I think they recommend using a bottle every 4000 miles or something though.
[QUOTE]
NO. It's a fuel system cleaner. I think they recommend using a bottle every 4000 miles or something though.
04-08-2008, 05:37 PM
#49
Ok, my turn.
Before the popularity of synthetic oils, I always poured a quart of diesel fuel into a freshly run and hot engine just before an oil change. I let the engine idle for ten minutes and then shut if off. As it sat overnight, the oil drained into a disposal drain pan. The engine, I must say, stayed in like-new clean condition, internally, for 280K miles until it was finally sold. At that time, it ran as good as the day I bought it. A new timing chain set and water pump was all that was ever replaced. It was a 20R. The diesel fuel kept the carbon off the rings and sludge out of the crankcase. My point is about the relative low cost of diesel fuel and simple availability vs the snake oil cleaners for $$.
Today, I run synthetics too when I learned in engineering school the superiority of synthetic oil. I also took notice of the watery, pumpkin color, oil I poured into T-58 jet engine oil reservoirs while serving in the military. And, since those engines run twice as hot as your truck engine and 10 times faster, I figured that synthetic oil was for me. And, changing it only once a year is a great value to me.
I have a great source for low cost synthetic oil. You could too if you just think about it long enough. Never any dino oil for me again.
My $0.02
Before the popularity of synthetic oils, I always poured a quart of diesel fuel into a freshly run and hot engine just before an oil change. I let the engine idle for ten minutes and then shut if off. As it sat overnight, the oil drained into a disposal drain pan. The engine, I must say, stayed in like-new clean condition, internally, for 280K miles until it was finally sold. At that time, it ran as good as the day I bought it. A new timing chain set and water pump was all that was ever replaced. It was a 20R. The diesel fuel kept the carbon off the rings and sludge out of the crankcase. My point is about the relative low cost of diesel fuel and simple availability vs the snake oil cleaners for $$.
Today, I run synthetics too when I learned in engineering school the superiority of synthetic oil. I also took notice of the watery, pumpkin color, oil I poured into T-58 jet engine oil reservoirs while serving in the military. And, since those engines run twice as hot as your truck engine and 10 times faster, I figured that synthetic oil was for me. And, changing it only once a year is a great value to me.
I have a great source for low cost synthetic oil. You could too if you just think about it long enough. Never any dino oil for me again.
My $0.02
04-08-2008, 06:44 PM
#50
Registered User
Ok, my turn.
Before the popularity of synthetic oils, I always poured a quart of diesel fuel into a freshly run and hot engine just before an oil change. I let the engine idle for ten minutes and then shut if off. As it sat overnight, the oil drained into a disposal drain pan. The engine, I must say, stayed in like-new clean condition, internally, for 280K miles until it was finally sold. At that time, it ran as good as the day I bought it. A new timing chain set and water pump was all that was ever replaced. It was a 20R. The diesel fuel kept the carbon off the rings and sludge out of the crankcase. My point is about the relative low cost of diesel fuel and simple availability vs the snake oil cleaners for $$.
Today, I run synthetics too when I learned in engineering school the superiority of synthetic oil. I also took notice of the watery, pumpkin color, oil I poured into T-58 jet engine oil reservoirs while serving in the military. And, since those engines run twice as hot as your truck engine and 10 times faster, I figured that synthetic oil was for me. And, changing it only once a year is a great value to me.
I have a great source for low cost synthetic oil. You could too if you just think about it long enough. Never any dino oil for me again.
My $0.02
Before the popularity of synthetic oils, I always poured a quart of diesel fuel into a freshly run and hot engine just before an oil change. I let the engine idle for ten minutes and then shut if off. As it sat overnight, the oil drained into a disposal drain pan. The engine, I must say, stayed in like-new clean condition, internally, for 280K miles until it was finally sold. At that time, it ran as good as the day I bought it. A new timing chain set and water pump was all that was ever replaced. It was a 20R. The diesel fuel kept the carbon off the rings and sludge out of the crankcase. My point is about the relative low cost of diesel fuel and simple availability vs the snake oil cleaners for $$.
Today, I run synthetics too when I learned in engineering school the superiority of synthetic oil. I also took notice of the watery, pumpkin color, oil I poured into T-58 jet engine oil reservoirs while serving in the military. And, since those engines run twice as hot as your truck engine and 10 times faster, I figured that synthetic oil was for me. And, changing it only once a year is a great value to me.
I have a great source for low cost synthetic oil. You could too if you just think about it long enough. Never any dino oil for me again.
My $0.02
I'm curious as to why you would put disel in your crank case.
Diesel is just nasty oil that comes off the top of petroleum in the refining process, correct?
So why would you put it in your truck?
04-08-2008, 07:14 PM
#51
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Ok, my turn.
Before the popularity of synthetic oils, I always poured a quart of diesel fuel into a freshly run and hot engine just before an oil change. I let the engine idle for ten minutes and then shut if off. As it sat overnight, the oil drained into a disposal drain pan. The engine, I must say, stayed in like-new clean condition, internally, for 280K miles until it was finally sold. At that time, it ran as good as the day I bought it. A new timing chain set and water pump was all that was ever replaced. It was a 20R. The diesel fuel kept the carbon off the rings and sludge out of the crankcase. My point is about the relative low cost of diesel fuel and simple availability vs the snake oil cleaners for $$.
Today, I run synthetics too when I learned in engineering school the superiority of synthetic oil. I also took notice of the watery, pumpkin color, oil I poured into T-58 jet engine oil reservoirs while serving in the military. And, since those engines run twice as hot as your truck engine and 10 times faster, I figured that synthetic oil was for me. And, changing it only once a year is a great value to me.
I have a great source for low cost synthetic oil. You could too if you just think about it long enough. Never any dino oil for me again.
My $0.02
Before the popularity of synthetic oils, I always poured a quart of diesel fuel into a freshly run and hot engine just before an oil change. I let the engine idle for ten minutes and then shut if off. As it sat overnight, the oil drained into a disposal drain pan. The engine, I must say, stayed in like-new clean condition, internally, for 280K miles until it was finally sold. At that time, it ran as good as the day I bought it. A new timing chain set and water pump was all that was ever replaced. It was a 20R. The diesel fuel kept the carbon off the rings and sludge out of the crankcase. My point is about the relative low cost of diesel fuel and simple availability vs the snake oil cleaners for $$.
Today, I run synthetics too when I learned in engineering school the superiority of synthetic oil. I also took notice of the watery, pumpkin color, oil I poured into T-58 jet engine oil reservoirs while serving in the military. And, since those engines run twice as hot as your truck engine and 10 times faster, I figured that synthetic oil was for me. And, changing it only once a year is a great value to me.
I have a great source for low cost synthetic oil. You could too if you just think about it long enough. Never any dino oil for me again.
My $0.02
04-13-2008, 08:58 PM
#52
Registered User
I've heard that back in the day, people in the know would run a half a quart of kerosene in the crankcase for 10 minutes or so, then drain and refill with new clean oil and filter. I guess it accomplishes the same thing.
04-14-2008, 12:24 AM
#53
Registered User
diesel is a heavy and a byproduct of making gas but it also it a good solvent. i dont know why but diesel will clean just about anything. better that wd-40
i want to know what SEAR's "great source for low cost synthetic oil" is..
i want to know what SEAR's "great source for low cost synthetic oil" is..
Last edited by ETRNL; 04-14-2008 at 12:26 AM.
04-15-2008, 06:54 PM
#54
Contributing Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: maple ridge, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 9,055
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
5 Posts
Today was the day. I made the switch to amsoil full synthetic 10w-30.
I used the amsoil engine flush, poured it in and let my engine idle for 18 mins with the ocaisional light rev to 2,000rpm.
filled it up with 5 fresh quarts (and a fresh filter).
Millage is 221,300km (only 121,300 on rebuilt engine). I guess my next change will be in roughly 5-8,000km.
I used the amsoil engine flush, poured it in and let my engine idle for 18 mins with the ocaisional light rev to 2,000rpm.
filled it up with 5 fresh quarts (and a fresh filter).
Millage is 221,300km (only 121,300 on rebuilt engine). I guess my next change will be in roughly 5-8,000km.
04-15-2008, 07:08 PM
#55
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Montrose, CO
Posts: 636
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
congrats Jay! You will be happy with Amsoil.
I have been a dealer since 1996 although I have never sold any Amsoil. I just pay my dues to get dealer prices for my own personal use.
I like series 2000 0 W 30. It protects better than Mobil1 5 W 30 and increases fuel mileage dramatically.
I have been a dealer since 1996 although I have never sold any Amsoil. I just pay my dues to get dealer prices for my own personal use.
I like series 2000 0 W 30. It protects better than Mobil1 5 W 30 and increases fuel mileage dramatically.
Im looking forward to see how my engine will run. Another mpg would be nice!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
cybrenergy
95.5-2004 Tacomas & 96-2002 4Runners
7
10-20-2002 12:59 PM
