vital22re

iTrader: (2)

So if you're not good with keeping up with the preventative services... metal guides will save your timing cover and hopefully make enough noise over your hollowed cat and cherrybomb to get you to repair the sloppy chain and replace the stuck tensioner. Got it.

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

now that is sig worthy. Oh and i forgot to add 3" bl and 4" blocks in the rear on bald 37" swampers on ifs with stock gearing.

flyingbrass

Same thinking here. I respect Ted's advice. I think he is honest and calls it as he sees it. However, I'm not one to accept anything as gospel. I haven't seen posts from anyone anywhere claiming 100K miles on a metal-backed aftermarket driver side guide. OTOH, there aren't many complaints about them either. Overall, data is lacking.


It bolts directly to the block.







I've wondered if maybe I should have used Toyota plastic instead. I doubt it really matters much either way.

I suspect what breaks the driver side guide is a loop of untensioned chain thrown over the top of the cam timing gear. I speculated about that here. Not necessarily enough of a loop to jump a tooth, just throw enough slack out to catch the top part of the guide. I could be completely upside down on that. Only speculating.

I positioned my new guide generally in line with the chain, but the very top of the guide set slightly outward. My thinking is keeping that top edge angled out a tiny bit should help prevent it from being snagged and broken should chain slack roll over the cam gear and try to catch the top edge of the guide.

I presume he means any aluminum or steel shavings coming from the timing area will go down to the oil pan. Oil from the pan is sucked up through the strainer/pickup tube and sent through the oil filter. Bearings are pressurized with filtered oil, so any contaminants splashing up from the pan shouldn't affect them.

PismoJoe

flyingbrass, was that pic of the broken guide from the teardown part of your engine rebuild thread, or did your metal guide break after you rebuilt the engine?

flyingbrass

The picture above is the new metal guide installed. It's not broken. Maybe you're noticing the area I ground down slightly for the cover to fit.

Pics of my original guides are here.

PismoJoe

Flyingbrass: I suspect what breaks the driver side guide is a loop of untensioned chain thrown over the top of the cam timing gear.


I thought that this happened to you with the EB guides, I misunderstood

ehertz

Where do I find flyingbrass' rebuild thread?

92 TOY

bottom of his sig

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...ebuild-192584/

c0ugar69

except for when all the plastic plugs the pickup tube and blocks oil flow to the engine. I think this happened to mine, it looked as if it was lacking in oil lubrication when i tore it apart, i did find lots of plastic timing guide on the pickup tube. not a for sure just my .02

tinkertoy

Its the chain failing first. Blame the chain. My .02

tinkertoy

If you had a belt. You would be changing it around 100K, maybe sooner. The only cure to this is gear to gear. Or 2X the width timing chain. Like the older 22Rs.

flyingbrass

If I must have broken timing guide parts floating around and being ground up, presumably ranging from small shavings to big chunks, would I rather they be steel or plastic? Good question. My answer is I don't know.

Plastic seems best at first glance because it is softer.

A magnetic drain plug or an added magnet will catch and hold steel shavings, and maybe even bigger chunks that are most worrying due to their ability to significantly clog the pickup screen and limit oil flow. Plastic can't be caught that way.

Which is worse? I don't know.

drew303

I'd like to see a piece of a metal backed guide actually make it into the oil pan. Anything coming apart in the cover has to make its way down and past lower sprocket in chain which is why the plastic guides look like this (my motor) in the pan,



Metal wouldnt get 'chewed' up ... i would think it'd just destroy the chain and everything else bound up.

And yes the metal backed guides DO break. I'm speaking from personal experience as ive already mentioned in a previous post.

I'll be doing another timing chain on a friends 22R here in the next month. I'll be using plastic guides. I did use a metal backed guide for my dads ole 87 pickup only because it came in Ted's engine kit. It hasn't broken =) Theres about 25k on that motor right now.

c0ugar69

thats good to hear, 25000 on the eb kit.

PismoJoe

There IS NO WAY a pickup tube can be clogged by plastic. Plastic will simply chill in the bottom of your pan. Period. If plastic particles do, hypothetically, make it to your oil pick up, the screen is too fine for most pieces to enter.

The small, tiny, microscopic if you will, pieces (if they do somehow enter) are taken to your oil filter.

I don't know about you guys, but I run an oil filter for a reason, and yes I do expect it to take care of ALL foreign materials/pieces/whatever is in my oil.

I think that people jump to conclusions. For example, you pull your 22R/RE, throw it on a stand, and what do you do? FLIP it over to get the pan off!!! So what happens now? Well gravity comes into play, and all the little pieces that have been accumulating at the bottom of your pan are thrown at the oil screen, and what do you think? "WTF my screen looks like a chia pet" Exactly.

Gnarly, we should just make a club called "Friends against 22R/RE timing component design"

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

I just tore up an re and the pick up tube screen was covered in little plastic bits I may have pics somewhere. But engine was upside down for a couple minutes.

PismoJoe

[QUOTE=Gnarly4X;51456223]Well, it is certainly possible to clog up the oil pickup screen, BUT it would have to be layered with sludge and varnish so that the plastic or metal filings could stick to it. Of course, *tongue-in-cheek mode on*... none of us would EVER let our oil go than long!!

This is a very good point. Clean oil makes a big difference. Clean oil dripping off of of the screen at cool downs would take particles along with it, and would not allow them to stick. When I pulled my pick up screen, the oil was dirty from a HG leak, and the oil was clogging the screen about 75%, just from sludge!

c0ugar69

well when I had mine apart it was covering the screen, Maybe it was cause it was upside down but it was stuck to it, had to pull it off. I dont know the history of the engine in my runner as I rebuilt it as soon as I got it, had a bad knock. timing components looked new. I am just saying anythings possible. I would prefer not to have anything down in the pan.

thralldad

I borrowed a compression tester and I'll tear into it this weekend. MTF!

tinkertoy

You have to be kidding thinking a timing chain and gears dont wear. I have a friends that jumped the gears, chain jumped the gears and was out 180 deg. Took it apart and the chain was streched beyond specks, way beyond. So no guide in the world would have pervented that. It did not break the guide. By the way. So again folks its chain failure first.