Still runs bad when warmed up
11-22-2010, 07:47 AM
#81
[quote=BajaRunner;Sam33: Here is my smog test results:
For 15mph/1600 RPM:
HC: Measured: 4 Avg: 34
CO%: Measured: 0 Avg: .06
NOx: Measured: 0 Avg 74
This was from a previous post of mine, and i didn't list units. I need to dig around for the original print out.[/quote]
Wow that is a clean running engine.Were the 25 mph measurments the same? Were there additives in the gas to make it run cleaner?
Are you sure your injectors are the right size?
Your HC and CO are really low,if you were running lean seems like your NOx would be higher,and if it was running really lean you would be having lean missfires and your HC would be higher.
The "burnt" rockers are normal, its just varnish( cracked oil) . Rockers, especially the exahst get hot and dont have a whole lot of oil flowing over them.
Hard to say what caused your cam problems before, but if your wondering about your oil pressure ,I would install a gauge.
For 15mph/1600 RPM:
HC: Measured: 4 Avg: 34
CO%: Measured: 0 Avg: .06
NOx: Measured: 0 Avg 74
This was from a previous post of mine, and i didn't list units. I need to dig around for the original print out.[/quote]
Wow that is a clean running engine.Were the 25 mph measurments the same? Were there additives in the gas to make it run cleaner?
Are you sure your injectors are the right size?
Your HC and CO are really low,if you were running lean seems like your NOx would be higher,and if it was running really lean you would be having lean missfires and your HC would be higher.
The "burnt" rockers are normal, its just varnish( cracked oil) . Rockers, especially the exahst get hot and dont have a whole lot of oil flowing over them.
Hard to say what caused your cam problems before, but if your wondering about your oil pressure ,I would install a gauge.
Last edited by sam333; 11-22-2010 at 11:51 AM.
11-23-2010, 10:27 AM
#82
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Yeah Sam, the 25 mph test was pretty much identical. Like I said, I had put a new cat on it, ($400) and completely cleaned the intake plenum and EGR (all afternoon).
The injectors are stock. They were cleaned, balanced and tested by RC Engineering. Came back looking brand new.
Fuel pressure is good.
My hunch is that I am getting air in somewhere, or my head/valves are having issues. Like a dumbass, I didn't get my valves/head looked at when I pulled it. Since everything looked NEW I thought I'd be ok. Well, i should have thought that if the HG blew, something bad happened, and I should have got a valve/head job when it was off. However I sitll am not sure that the HG blew. I didn't see any indication except it looked "worn".
I think electrical system is good... I think. It runs better during cold warmup because its dumping gas in, and masking the problem. I get 18 mpg with a camper though... which is pretty good.
I'm really really really confused, and I guess I should take Chef's advice and just take it to ANOTHER mechainc. Everyone I've been to says they don't know what the problem is.
The injectors are stock. They were cleaned, balanced and tested by RC Engineering. Came back looking brand new.
Fuel pressure is good.
My hunch is that I am getting air in somewhere, or my head/valves are having issues. Like a dumbass, I didn't get my valves/head looked at when I pulled it. Since everything looked NEW I thought I'd be ok. Well, i should have thought that if the HG blew, something bad happened, and I should have got a valve/head job when it was off. However I sitll am not sure that the HG blew. I didn't see any indication except it looked "worn".
I think electrical system is good... I think. It runs better during cold warmup because its dumping gas in, and masking the problem. I get 18 mpg with a camper though... which is pretty good.
I'm really really really confused, and I guess I should take Chef's advice and just take it to ANOTHER mechainc. Everyone I've been to says they don't know what the problem is.
Last edited by BajaRunner; 11-23-2010 at 10:30 AM.
11-23-2010, 11:01 AM
#83
Yeah Sam, the 25 mph test was pretty much identical. Like I said, I had put a new cat on it, ($400) and completely cleaned the intake plenum and EGR (all afternoon).
The injectors are stock. They were cleaned, balanced and tested by RC Engineering. Came back looking brand new.
Fuel pressure is good.
My hunch is that I am getting air in somewhere, or my head/valves are having issues. Like a dumbass, I didn't get my valves/head looked at when I pulled it. Since everything looked NEW I thought I'd be ok. Well, i should have thought that if the HG blew, something bad happened, and I should have got a valve/head job when it was off. However I sitll am not sure that the HG blew. I didn't see any indication except it looked "worn".
I think electrical system is good... I think. It runs better during cold warmup because its dumping gas in, and masking the problem. I get 18 mpg with a camper though... which is pretty good.
I'm really really really confused, and I guess I should take Chef's advice and just take it to ANOTHER mechainc. Everyone I've been to says they don't know what the problem is.
The injectors are stock. They were cleaned, balanced and tested by RC Engineering. Came back looking brand new.
Fuel pressure is good.
My hunch is that I am getting air in somewhere, or my head/valves are having issues. Like a dumbass, I didn't get my valves/head looked at when I pulled it. Since everything looked NEW I thought I'd be ok. Well, i should have thought that if the HG blew, something bad happened, and I should have got a valve/head job when it was off. However I sitll am not sure that the HG blew. I didn't see any indication except it looked "worn".
I think electrical system is good... I think. It runs better during cold warmup because its dumping gas in, and masking the problem. I get 18 mpg with a camper though... which is pretty good.
I'm really really really confused, and I guess I should take Chef's advice and just take it to ANOTHER mechainc. Everyone I've been to says they don't know what the problem is.
hahaha. Let me know, .....and hey, might be worth just a call to him. Just call and ask for Tom(pretty sure that's his name)... The guy is AMAZING, man.... and I had tried EVERY South Bay Guru I could find! lol. Might try, first, checking you vacuum pressure. If it's around 16" at idle,....sure, that's pretty good. However, if it's bouncing, VERY FAST, back and forth around an inch? ....NOT GOOD.... very indicative of Top End Issues. Maybe if you have a guy near you that does the Propane test, you could try that guy? Just get some feelers out there for his knowledge with older Gen stuff, and you might find a winner closer by. No TLC type specialists down there, Baja? Or did you already try em all? Sorry if I missed that! Have a great Thanksgiving, either way, Baja...
Mark
11-23-2010, 11:21 AM
#84
Yeah Sam, the 25 mph test was pretty much identical. Like I said, I had put a new cat on it, ($400) and completely cleaned the intake plenum and EGR (all afternoon).
The injectors are stock. They were cleaned, balanced and tested by RC Engineering. Came back looking brand new.
Fuel pressure is good.
My hunch is that I am getting air in somewhere, or my head/valves are having issues. Like a dumbass, I didn't get my valves/head looked at when I pulled it. Since everything looked NEW I thought I'd be ok. Well, i should have thought that if the HG blew, something bad happened, and I should have got a valve/head job when it was off. However I sitll am not sure that the HG blew. I didn't see any indication except it looked "worn".
I think electrical system is good... I think. It runs better during cold warmup because its dumping gas in, and masking the problem. I get 18 mpg with a camper though... which is pretty good.
I'm really really really confused, and I guess I should take Chef's advice and just take it to ANOTHER mechainc. Everyone I've been to says they don't know what the problem is.
The injectors are stock. They were cleaned, balanced and tested by RC Engineering. Came back looking brand new.
Fuel pressure is good.
My hunch is that I am getting air in somewhere, or my head/valves are having issues. Like a dumbass, I didn't get my valves/head looked at when I pulled it. Since everything looked NEW I thought I'd be ok. Well, i should have thought that if the HG blew, something bad happened, and I should have got a valve/head job when it was off. However I sitll am not sure that the HG blew. I didn't see any indication except it looked "worn".
I think electrical system is good... I think. It runs better during cold warmup because its dumping gas in, and masking the problem. I get 18 mpg with a camper though... which is pretty good.
I'm really really really confused, and I guess I should take Chef's advice and just take it to ANOTHER mechainc. Everyone I've been to says they don't know what the problem is.
Marks guy sounds interesting.
Why did you replace the head gasket? Are you loosing coolent right now?
If the head is a year old and was rebuilt properly it should give you at least 100,000 miles with no problems as long as you keep the valves adjusted.
The compression #'s sound good, but I dont even do compression tests anymore, I just do leak down tests.
I know this is off this train of thought, but check out these electrical problem threads. Alot of the problems appear to be mechanical, but turned out to be simple wiring/grounding problems and they seem to be very common.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...s-gear-224479/
Read this thread and also go to my post and there are two more links.
Last edited by sam333; 11-23-2010 at 11:28 AM.
11-23-2010, 11:29 AM
#85
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
So I had my mechanic neighbor stop by. He is more of a VW guy, but has worked on a fair amount of Toyotas.
His personal opinions are: 1) Timing chain 2) Igniter module. He cringed when I started up the motor. He said it sounded horrible, and thinks its definitely mechanical. He thinks the misfire is due to the timing getting thrown off. I still don't really buy that though.
Chef: Yeah I will try one more guy here, who I know is a Toyota specialist.
Sam: I replaced the HG due to people on this board saying I had a blown one.
Well, I was overheating a bit, and had exhaust gas in my coolant. Something was up. I replaced it and haven't had overheating problems and my coolant level is steady!
His personal opinions are: 1) Timing chain 2) Igniter module. He cringed when I started up the motor. He said it sounded horrible, and thinks its definitely mechanical. He thinks the misfire is due to the timing getting thrown off. I still don't really buy that though.
Chef: Yeah I will try one more guy here, who I know is a Toyota specialist.
Sam: I replaced the HG due to people on this board saying I had a blown one.
Well, I was overheating a bit, and had exhaust gas in my coolant. Something was up. I replaced it and haven't had overheating problems and my coolant level is steady!
11-23-2010, 12:13 PM
#87
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
And I have to mention this...
It runs crappy weather its warm or cold. Something is off.
The videos I listen to on Youtube on 22re's... They sound totally different than mine. There are ones where they are not even rebuilt, like this one. This truck sounds good to me. Mine makes me want to cringe everytime I start it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBltbqE1y1k
It runs crappy weather its warm or cold. Something is off.
The videos I listen to on Youtube on 22re's... They sound totally different than mine. There are ones where they are not even rebuilt, like this one. This truck sounds good to me. Mine makes me want to cringe everytime I start it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBltbqE1y1k
11-23-2010, 12:15 PM
#88
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Andy: NO, I still haven't done the timing chain. I couldn't ever get the crank bolt off. I am going to take it to a mechanic to get it off. :/ I have to wait until mid december though.
As long as the crank pulley is key'ed to the position of the crank timing sproket, I am not off a tooth. It sits right at 11:30 when TDC @ #1.
As long as the crank pulley is key'ed to the position of the crank timing sproket, I am not off a tooth. It sits right at 11:30 when TDC @ #1.
11-23-2010, 12:30 PM
#89
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did you try the starter bump? it's never failed me and don't worry you wont break anything.
when i got my truck the po had just done the timing and he definitely screwed something up. i never figured out what it was... but this thing sounded like a diesel. i thought it was a crazy exhaust leak. eventually the timing guides started going out, so i did the chain, and voila the noise was gone. part of the timing cover was torn off down by the crank too, and a couple bolts that hold the guides were loose.
when i got my truck the po had just done the timing and he definitely screwed something up. i never figured out what it was... but this thing sounded like a diesel. i thought it was a crazy exhaust leak. eventually the timing guides started going out, so i did the chain, and voila the noise was gone. part of the timing cover was torn off down by the crank too, and a couple bolts that hold the guides were loose.
11-23-2010, 03:23 PM
#91
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Hey guys.
I was under the impression that the crank timing gear and crank pulley were key'ed in a fashion that when you put the pulley on 0 degrees, the crank will be at 0 degrees as well, so I never actually physically checked the the pistion was at TDC with a screwdriver or anything.
Check out the picture below. That is at 0. I dont think my chain skipped a tooth. I am fairly certain that the timing chain is on correct, and the gears are lined up correctly.
I was under the impression that the crank timing gear and crank pulley were key'ed in a fashion that when you put the pulley on 0 degrees, the crank will be at 0 degrees as well, so I never actually physically checked the the pistion was at TDC with a screwdriver or anything.
Check out the picture below. That is at 0. I dont think my chain skipped a tooth. I am fairly certain that the timing chain is on correct, and the gears are lined up correctly.
11-23-2010, 06:15 PM
#94
The cam has to turn twice for every turn of the Crank, Baja...(sorry if you know that)... So, when you line up to 0 on the timing ear mark on the crank, and the rotor is pointing at #1 under the cap, your #1 Piston should be up. Then, you turn the crank one full turn back to zero, and you should be on the opposite stroke with the rotor on #4.(You get it to #1, set the valves, then over to #4, set the rest), etc. I would bet that if you turn your crank another 360degrees, 2 times, the bright link should be on 11:58 on the clock, with the actual knob of the cam at 12oclock. (Sometimes it take several turns to get it back to where the cam and crank are both lined up perfectly on 12oclock at TDC on the compression stroke. The only problem at times, is that you can NOT see the Crank dimple is at 12oclock on the dot, when the cover is on....so that's why it's so important to be sure before it's all buttoned back up. Also, sometimes, when putting the head back on, the CAM can slip over slightly, when tightening it down.(Ted at Engnbldr.com was explaining this to me,....that it's rare, but CAN HAPPEN).
If your tensioner is toast, or you've actually slipped a tooth...or just never get it back on right in the first place, when reinstalling the head, ...well, then you're bound to have HUGE problems that you will seemingly 'never be able to time it right', 'it will miss and misfire like crazy', 'idle will seem to have a mind of it's own at times', amongst other things.
If your tensioner is toast, or you've actually slipped a tooth...or just never get it back on right in the first place, when reinstalling the head, ...well, then you're bound to have HUGE problems that you will seemingly 'never be able to time it right', 'it will miss and misfire like crazy', 'idle will seem to have a mind of it's own at times', amongst other things.
11-23-2010, 06:17 PM
#95
PS> I actually yoinked my crank bolt the first time by simply shaving off the top of the flange, Baja...it just had to be done. These were at 116# when done with fresh motor/rebuild.... and mine was at 225# and NOT BUDGING. However, the last time, I simply put it in 5th gear, blocked both sides of the rear wheels, well, and then jacked up the truck by the handle of the breaker bar, after making a home made block that I cut a piece out of to make sure it didn't pop out of there or slide over. (make sense?) ...IT POPPED, ...it had to, with the entire weight of the truck on it.
11-23-2010, 08:38 PM
#96
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hey man did you figure it out yet??
i JUST finished ˟˟˟˟ING around with my chev..it would run absolutly GREAT when cold but as soon as it warmed up it was hesitate, cough, backfire, run like absolute ˟˟˟˟˟ when under load so i did the wrong thins and jsut start buying things left right and center i bought a brand new Throttle Body, Injectors, Throttle Body Gasket, Distributor Shaft, Distributor Cap, Rotor, Spark Plug Wires, Spark Plugs, Fuel Filter, Fuel Pump, Fuel Lines, MSD Coil, EGR, PVC, TPS, Thermos Stat & Gasket..the list goes on..$1000 later i knoticed a broken sensor, my Coolent Temp Sensor..took the wires off and figured meh ill drive to the store and buy a new one..yeah truck wouldnt run without it so borrowed dads truck and replaced the $25 peice..yeah fixed the trucks problems i coulda just replaced that sensor and i would have been a $1000 richer..lol oh well..live and learn..hope you fix your truck man
i JUST finished ˟˟˟˟ING around with my chev..it would run absolutly GREAT when cold but as soon as it warmed up it was hesitate, cough, backfire, run like absolute ˟˟˟˟˟ when under load so i did the wrong thins and jsut start buying things left right and center i bought a brand new Throttle Body, Injectors, Throttle Body Gasket, Distributor Shaft, Distributor Cap, Rotor, Spark Plug Wires, Spark Plugs, Fuel Filter, Fuel Pump, Fuel Lines, MSD Coil, EGR, PVC, TPS, Thermos Stat & Gasket..the list goes on..$1000 later i knoticed a broken sensor, my Coolent Temp Sensor..took the wires off and figured meh ill drive to the store and buy a new one..yeah truck wouldnt run without it so borrowed dads truck and replaced the $25 peice..yeah fixed the trucks problems i coulda just replaced that sensor and i would have been a $1000 richer..lol oh well..live and learn..hope you fix your truck man
11-24-2010, 09:02 AM
#97
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Chef: Yes I'm 100% sure that my timing chain isn't a tooth off. The way I do it is this: Set the crank pulley mark directly at 0, make sure the two rockers on #1 are "loose", the rotor is @ #1. The picture I just posted shows the cam gear at TDC #1. Its at about 11:55 
Yeah I am going to try the timing chain here again. I remember your advice about cutting the bolt. I had to special order a bolt, and wasn't going to be at my house in time, so I had to put everything back together. I have the bolt now (From Toyota) and am willing to cut the old one.
PG Yota: Thanks for the heads up. If the FSM is correct, then my coolant temp sensor is correct too. I have tested the output with a multimeter. Unfortunately, reading the FSM, they give you a graph of 3 lines, not an actual #. I have checked mine several, and to the best of my ability, it appears its in spec. I have also tested the voltage at the ECU that tests for coolant temp sensor output, and it too is correct. The sensor is definetly worn looking though. part of the plastic is chipped, but the plug stays on wel.
Yeah I am going to try the timing chain here again. I remember your advice about cutting the bolt. I had to special order a bolt, and wasn't going to be at my house in time, so I had to put everything back together. I have the bolt now (From Toyota) and am willing to cut the old one.
PG Yota: Thanks for the heads up. If the FSM is correct, then my coolant temp sensor is correct too. I have tested the output with a multimeter. Unfortunately, reading the FSM, they give you a graph of 3 lines, not an actual #. I have checked mine several, and to the best of my ability, it appears its in spec. I have also tested the voltage at the ECU that tests for coolant temp sensor output, and it too is correct. The sensor is definetly worn looking though. part of the plastic is chipped, but the plug stays on wel.
11-24-2010, 09:12 AM
#98
Chef: Yes I'm 100% sure that my timing chain isn't a tooth off. The way I do it is this: Set the crank pulley mark directly at 0, make sure the two rockers on #1 are "loose", the rotor is @ #1. The picture I just posted shows the cam gear at TDC #1. Its at about 11:55
Yeah I am going to try the timing chain here again. I remember your advice about cutting the bolt. I had to special order a bolt, and wasn't going to be at my house in time, so I had to put everything back together. I have the bolt now (From Toyota) and am willing to cut the old one.
PG Yota: Thanks for the heads up. If the FSM is correct, then my coolant temp sensor is correct too. I have tested the output with a multimeter. Unfortunately, reading the FSM, they give you a graph of 3 lines, not an actual #. I have checked mine several, and to the best of my ability, it appears its in spec. I have also tested the voltage at the ECU that tests for coolant temp sensor output, and it too is correct. The sensor is definetly worn looking though. part of the plastic is chipped, but the plug stays on wel.
Yeah I am going to try the timing chain here again. I remember your advice about cutting the bolt. I had to special order a bolt, and wasn't going to be at my house in time, so I had to put everything back together. I have the bolt now (From Toyota) and am willing to cut the old one.
PG Yota: Thanks for the heads up. If the FSM is correct, then my coolant temp sensor is correct too. I have tested the output with a multimeter. Unfortunately, reading the FSM, they give you a graph of 3 lines, not an actual #. I have checked mine several, and to the best of my ability, it appears its in spec. I have also tested the voltage at the ECU that tests for coolant temp sensor output, and it too is correct. The sensor is definetly worn looking though. part of the plastic is chipped, but the plug stays on wel.
11-24-2010, 09:16 AM
#99
PS> I can't guarantee, but I HOPE, and feel it's very likely..... Once you cut that flange top off, IT MIGHT just nearly come off by hand! lol. Mine was at around 50# once I loosened that up by cutting the flange on my buddies rig. Before cutting it? TRIED EVERYTHING LISTED ON THE NET, PERIOD! lol. However, mine, even VERY TIGHT, finally broke when I jacked up the truck by the wrench, allowing all the weight of the truck to be my breaker tool, lol.
