pinging with correct timing and 91+ octane...
09-28-2006, 01:18 PM
#43
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Well the bolts all good, i still have to have the time retarded to TDC to stop the pinging,slap,clatter. i went ahead and took the afm back to 2 clicks lean and it runs really great, i just dont understand why it want time to factory spec
09-30-2006, 07:34 PM
#44
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I have set my afm back 2 clicksmore to being 2 clicks leaner than what i marked it. Should it be ok to leave it here? It runs really good here, i still have to have the timing on TDC to stop the pinging, im running 91 octane. im at my wits end only thing i havent checked is the EGR, i have no codes, any ideas?
10-01-2006, 03:59 AM
#45
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Well, I did play a little with my EGR and it got a little better but not cured by any means.
I took off the top 2 vacuum lines and plugged both of them on both sides on the EGR valve.
That night I took it out and couldn't get it to ping at all so I thought it was cured so I put the timing back to 5 btdc, but the next day on the way home from work when it was hot out it pinged pretty bad again.
Temps now are about 10 degrees cooler than when I started all of this so I think that is the reason it is lessening.
I also tried a bottle of octane booster with no effect at all.
I'm going to plug the other 2 vacuum lines on the EGR when I get a chance this week, and probably look in to making a few bypass plates to pull the sucker completely off to try that out.
On a side note, I also put the AFM back to the stock setting as it felt a little rich at 2 clicks. With that leaned out, the lines plugged on the EGR, and the timing back to 5 btdc the truck ran like a scalded dog. I mean it really was running good.
Hopefully I get this stuff sorted out so I can advance the timing again and really let it fly.
I'll keep posting as I make changes.
maximus1968 I would think if it was running good it wouldn't matter. Just as always, when you modify an engine just pay close attention to the sounds and vibrations its making to keep from hurting it.
I took off the top 2 vacuum lines and plugged both of them on both sides on the EGR valve.
That night I took it out and couldn't get it to ping at all so I thought it was cured so I put the timing back to 5 btdc, but the next day on the way home from work when it was hot out it pinged pretty bad again.
Temps now are about 10 degrees cooler than when I started all of this so I think that is the reason it is lessening.
I also tried a bottle of octane booster with no effect at all.
I'm going to plug the other 2 vacuum lines on the EGR when I get a chance this week, and probably look in to making a few bypass plates to pull the sucker completely off to try that out.
On a side note, I also put the AFM back to the stock setting as it felt a little rich at 2 clicks. With that leaned out, the lines plugged on the EGR, and the timing back to 5 btdc the truck ran like a scalded dog. I mean it really was running good.
Hopefully I get this stuff sorted out so I can advance the timing again and really let it fly.
I'll keep posting as I make changes.
maximus1968 I would think if it was running good it wouldn't matter. Just as always, when you modify an engine just pay close attention to the sounds and vibrations its making to keep from hurting it.
10-01-2006, 02:52 PM
#46
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honestly you should give WMI a try....and there are 2 big reasons why.
1. Water when injected as a fine mist will radically lower the ambient temperature of the air going in thus increasing its density. It also prevents pinging, knocking, and detonation, BIG time!!
2. Water when converted to steam in the combustion phase of the powerstroke it actively cleans off ALL carbon deposits in the cylinder in short order
Now the amount of wmi needed would be pretty darn low....guessing what 0.5gph at 100psi? H2O only too...and honestly you dont need a wmi kit, just a 100psi wmi pump, a water reservior and then just a the nozzle and then the fittings including a 22psi check vavle, and lastly a way to trigger it by giving 12v to the wmi pump.
Toysrme256th taught me all i ever learned about WMI!
ps - im going to do a WMI setup myself on my 3vze despite it being NA because it will allow me to run 87 octane with about 15*BTDC or at least should...
1. Water when injected as a fine mist will radically lower the ambient temperature of the air going in thus increasing its density. It also prevents pinging, knocking, and detonation, BIG time!!
2. Water when converted to steam in the combustion phase of the powerstroke it actively cleans off ALL carbon deposits in the cylinder in short order
Now the amount of wmi needed would be pretty darn low....guessing what 0.5gph at 100psi? H2O only too...and honestly you dont need a wmi kit, just a 100psi wmi pump, a water reservior and then just a the nozzle and then the fittings including a 22psi check vavle, and lastly a way to trigger it by giving 12v to the wmi pump.
Toysrme256th taught me all i ever learned about WMI!
ps - im going to do a WMI setup myself on my 3vze despite it being NA because it will allow me to run 87 octane with about 15*BTDC or at least should...
Last edited by Bumpin' Yota; 10-01-2006 at 02:59 PM.
10-01-2006, 03:58 PM
#49
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Water Methanol Injection, however one needs not run methanol, but rather just water. And on a NA application you dont need much water at all hence only 0.5gph suggestion.
Ever notice that when its raining or foggy out that your truck has more power, runs smoother, and never pings? Thats the effects of atomized water!
Ever notice that when its raining or foggy out that your truck has more power, runs smoother, and never pings? Thats the effects of atomized water!
Last edited by Bumpin' Yota; 10-01-2006 at 03:59 PM.
10-02-2006, 04:03 AM
#51
Contributing Member
Now the amount of wmi needed would be pretty darn low....guessing what 0.5gph at 100psi? H2O only too...and honestly you dont need a wmi kit, just a 100psi wmi pump, a water reservior and then just a the nozzle and then the fittings including a 22psi check vavle, and lastly a way to trigger it by giving 12v to the wmi pump.
The Aguamist 2D system that URD recommends uses a pressure sensor so the flow can be activated at a specific boost level.
10-02-2006, 04:55 AM
#52
Registered User
not looking at kits, but rather looking at piecing one together! I would have done this already and done a write up on it, but one issue. No job and thus no money...
However that will be changing directly.
You definately dont want it running at idle. But if you want it to come on line at WOT, all you have to do is place a microswitch on the TB so that when you got to WOT it powers up the system. I believe that 0.5gph@100psi is so low of a flow rate that it could probably be triggered at higway cruize as well, again by the use of a microswitch strategically placed, however let me do some looking into on that...
I would have done this already and done a write up on it, but one issue. No job and thus no money... However that will be changing directly.You definately dont want it running at idle. But if you want it to come on line at WOT, all you have to do is place a microswitch on the TB so that when you got to WOT it powers up the system. I believe that 0.5gph@100psi is so low of a flow rate that it could probably be triggered at higway cruize as well, again by the use of a microswitch strategically placed, however let me do some looking into on that...
10-02-2006, 06:29 AM
#53
Contributing Member
In addition to the Aquamist 2D cycling the WI on or off based on the pressure sensor, it also uses a direct tie into a fuel injector power wire so the high speed valve opens more often (releases more water) as more fuel is going in. There may also be a way to use the throttle position sensor, maybe?
10-05-2006, 01:41 PM
#54
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Thread Starter
Well I think it's actually fixed...
As I said on the other page, I plugged the top two vacuum lines on the EGR valve and also capped the tubes they came off of on the EGR and it got better, so I reset the AFM back to the stock setting to lean it back out a little, and also set the timing back to 5 degrees btdc and pulled the EFI fuse to reset the computer.
The next day I heard a very minute amount of ping, but much better than it was.
Now about a week later, I can barely get it to ping at all.
Outside temps are about 6-8 degrees cooler which I'm sure helps, but I think it was the EGR valve like engnbldr said it was.
Regardless, it's running really good and if it pings at all it's under small throttle openings and I have to rock the throttle in and out a little to get a few quick pings then it stops.
With winter coming I feel confident that it won't bother me for about the next 6 months.
When I get around to it I may make block off plates for the EGR valve to completely remove it, or hell, I may just leave it exactly how I have it if it keeps running this good.
So, to others that are pinging with stock timing for no reason, try blocking a few tubes on the EGR and see if it helps.
As I said on the other page, I plugged the top two vacuum lines on the EGR valve and also capped the tubes they came off of on the EGR and it got better, so I reset the AFM back to the stock setting to lean it back out a little, and also set the timing back to 5 degrees btdc and pulled the EFI fuse to reset the computer.
The next day I heard a very minute amount of ping, but much better than it was.
Now about a week later, I can barely get it to ping at all.
Outside temps are about 6-8 degrees cooler which I'm sure helps, but I think it was the EGR valve like engnbldr said it was.
Regardless, it's running really good and if it pings at all it's under small throttle openings and I have to rock the throttle in and out a little to get a few quick pings then it stops.
With winter coming I feel confident that it won't bother me for about the next 6 months.
When I get around to it I may make block off plates for the EGR valve to completely remove it, or hell, I may just leave it exactly how I have it if it keeps running this good.
So, to others that are pinging with stock timing for no reason, try blocking a few tubes on the EGR and see if it helps.
10-05-2006, 05:14 PM
#55
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problem is with the egr temp sensor on that engine the truck will eventually throw a code if its completely blocked off. id rather have a cel than a crappy running pinging engine though.
10-19-2006, 02:45 AM
#56
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Thread Starter
Well, another update so as to not provide bad information to those that find this thread in searches...
Ping is still there and as bad as ever. What is happening is that it only shows itself when outside temps are above about 85F.
Still no codes on the CEL from the EGR partial disable, and believe it or not, the damned thing is running really well if it weren't for the ping.
Most days I just crank up the tunes and keep the pipe blowing hard and completely ignore it. Every once in a while I'll turn everything off and roll up the windows to see if its still there and it always is on hot days.
I haven't gotten around to fooling with anything lately because I've been too busy.
I'll keep with the updates when I do though.
At this point I'm really thinking it needs a new EGR, knock sensor, and O2 sensor but I just can't justify spending the ~$500 to get those (OEM or I'll keep what I have). I think that $500 would be better spent at Downey for V8 swap parts...
We'll see.
Ping is still there and as bad as ever. What is happening is that it only shows itself when outside temps are above about 85F.
Still no codes on the CEL from the EGR partial disable, and believe it or not, the damned thing is running really well if it weren't for the ping.
Most days I just crank up the tunes and keep the pipe blowing hard and completely ignore it. Every once in a while I'll turn everything off and roll up the windows to see if its still there and it always is on hot days.
I haven't gotten around to fooling with anything lately because I've been too busy.
I'll keep with the updates when I do though.
At this point I'm really thinking it needs a new EGR, knock sensor, and O2 sensor but I just can't justify spending the ~$500 to get those (OEM or I'll keep what I have). I think that $500 would be better spent at Downey for V8 swap parts...
We'll see.
10-19-2006, 04:54 AM
#57
Registered User
you havent gotten a code 52 right? If you can why not try regrounding the ground side of the knock sensor? While you are at it, make your own grounding kit. 
If you dont have a soundsystme that's major, 8ga wire will work. At the very least it would make sure all the electronics on the truck have a nice good ground.
I do like those WMI kits that allow one to run WMI at other times than WOT that give the injector a duty cycle, but dizzam they expensive! I think mine is going to be WOT triggered only, particularly since that's usually where my pedal is when Im driving....LOL However doing that rules out my low octane way advanced timing theory. Those kits would allow me to do that though.
But the cool thing about WMI is that it really does actively clean all carbon deposits from the cylinder. Ever see the cylinder where the HG lets go into it? When people pull the heads off, the one that popped (usually #6) is all nice and spiffy clean. Carbon deposits actively contribute to predetonation becuase they get white hot and hold the heat.
this much carbon in the cylinders had me pinging on my OEM setting of 10*BTDC and on 93 octane. It got so bad that I could only get gas from 1 gas station else she'd ping violently.
All of that black flaky stuff is carbon! And all of it would turn white hot while the engine was running...
Here's the cylinder head where the #6 HG let go. I couldnt get it this clean if I tried! lol
If you dont have a soundsystme that's major, 8ga wire will work. At the very least it would make sure all the electronics on the truck have a nice good ground. I do like those WMI kits that allow one to run WMI at other times than WOT that give the injector a duty cycle, but dizzam they expensive! I think mine is going to be WOT triggered only, particularly since that's usually where my pedal is when Im driving....LOL However doing that rules out my low octane way advanced timing theory. Those kits would allow me to do that though.
But the cool thing about WMI is that it really does actively clean all carbon deposits from the cylinder. Ever see the cylinder where the HG lets go into it? When people pull the heads off, the one that popped (usually #6) is all nice and spiffy clean. Carbon deposits actively contribute to predetonation becuase they get white hot and hold the heat.
this much carbon in the cylinders had me pinging on my OEM setting of 10*BTDC and on 93 octane. It got so bad that I could only get gas from 1 gas station else she'd ping violently.
All of that black flaky stuff is carbon! And all of it would turn white hot while the engine was running...
Here's the cylinder head where the #6 HG let go. I couldnt get it this clean if I tried! lol
Last edited by Bumpin' Yota; 10-19-2006 at 04:59 AM.
10-19-2006, 05:56 PM
#59
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I've talked to him in PM mode and we're both having the same problem he's running a 22RE not a V6. Override I ran mine today with 93 and it didn't ping that's with 5 degrees timing. I didn't get a knock sensor code or any code for that matter. This was about a 200 mile trip one way, I think we share the same problem, to much compression. Does BP offer 93 octane in south FL? If so try it, in NW FL it's $2.39 a gal I'm not to happy about it but I'm one step closer to finding out what's going on.
