coloradotom

I got an '89 xtracab 4x4 22RE from craigslist this spring from a kid (well, mid-20's--guess that means I'm old) who claimed to have rebuilt everything. About 227,000 odometer miles and it ran great, good power.

But it always blew an impressive cloud of blue smoke at startup after it'd been sitting for more than a day or two. Couldn't see any smoke in exhaust but if I drove it fairly hard it would use a bunch of oil (I live in CO Mountains, hard to avoid running a 22RE 4x4 pretty hard just getting home). After one trip where it used half a quart in less than 300 miles I talked to my mechanic and a local rebuilder and we agreed that it was worth going ahead and re-doing the rebuild from the bottom up. I don't have the tools or know-how to do non-trivial motor work, so I just paid them to get it done.

I have a great deal of confidence in them. I've been using this mechanic for about 12 years, he's very thorough and fair in terms of cost. He has never messed up any work for me, and he'd make it right if he did. He recommended the machine shop and I've known other people who had quality work done there.

When the rebuilder disassembled the motor, the #2 piston pretty much fell out of the block with no resistance, and there was oil all over inside that cyclinder, so it looked like that was my oil consumption culprit. He bored it over, new pistons, rings, complete valve job with new seals, new camshaft--complete long block rebuild.

It runs great, has good power, and just plain sounds better than it did before. Prior to the rebuild there was lots of lifter noise, much quieter now.

So, this new motor now has about 135 miles on it. I've followed their instructions about how to drive it during break-in. Right away after I picked it up I got it a chance to do some engine breaking down a 5 mile stretch off a minor mountain pass. Then the next day I took a 60-mile break-in drive up and over a high pass and back. Did lots of engine braking down the downhills, varied the rpms on the way up and while engine braking. I keep varying the rpm everywhere I drive it, even just errands around town.

I know it isn't broken in yet, but I'm concerned: it's still blowing smoke on startup. Only after it's been sitting for more than 6 or 8 hours. Stop at the store, come back out 20 minutes later and turn it over and it's totally clear. Obviously I don't have any information about oil consumption yet--seems like it may have used a little, but I really expect that in the first couple hundred miles. But it's like deja vu all over again with that g0d@mn smoke out the pipe when I turn it over! Definitely oil smoke, blue-ish and the odor is unmistakable.

Two questions:

1) is this just normal, should I expect a little startup smoke until break-in is really complete?
2) what else could be causing this?? I know to suspect PVC, but it's been checked. Didn't get replaced with the motor went back together, but as I understand it if the thing rattles when you shake it it's working OK. Also my guy said something about how the intake boot looked like it was getting some cracks, dry rot or something. He was going to look at finding a replacement. Could a problem there cause this?

Lots of the stuff under the hood looks old and dry (hoses, wiring, etc). What would you replace if you thought it would be a good idea, and not cost hundreds of dollars?

This weekend I have a 250 mile highway drive planned. Plan to keep it rolling between 55-70 mph. It's a relatively mellow flat drive by Colorado Standards, I'm thinking that should take the break-in pretty far along; maybe that will finish up the break-in and I'll be good to go. Crossing my fingers.

Really driving me nuts. This truck is exactly what I want to be driving. Got a decent price for it originally, but now I have quite a bit of $$ wrapped up in the damn thing. Any advice about how I can get past this crapola would be greatly appreciated. I know there's a good chance it will just work itself out, but any insight into something me and my mechanic haven't thought of would be great to hear.

JohnnyCanuck

I've done a few rebuilds but not the 22r, it shouldn't be smoking 135 miles after rebuild imo. You didn't mention if you had the heads done, it sounds like valve seals to me. When the seals get older, they dry out, after you drive it and park, the oil seeps past the dry/cracked valve seals. When you start it up, it burns off whatever oil seeped through and then it won't smoke until you park again.

coloradotom

Head was rebuilt. Seals were replaced. Complete everything. Since I was bearing the expense of a motor being pulled I had him do everything. Full kit: gaskets, seals, oil pump, pistons, rings, etc. Everything.

coloradotom

Awright, I got home from work, popped a beer and went out to stare at this truck's ˟˟˟˟˟˟˟ engine.

Here's a question for the gurus: I think I understand that the PVC is is a one-way valve. It's for allowing the heat and pressure in the valve cover to release out, but without letting a bunch of air back in. Positive ventilation, letting the pressure out...

What would happen if you had no real seal inside the valve cover? Not the gasket, not oil drooling down the side of the block... what if there wasn't any positive pressure?

I ask this because I was looking at hoses that come off the valve cover. There are quite a few. On my little b!tch, the one the furthest back from the front is attached to some kind of post mounted on a gasket. I figured I'd take that hose off and check to see if it was plugged. So I removed the clamp and tried to wiggle the hose off. The whole thing just came out leaving a hole on the valve cover with a little lip that the rubber is supposed to hook onto. But the rubber is trashed, so it just comes right off.

Could that be messing with me?

Please. My sanity is at stake here. Throw me a bone or bring me beer. Both would be fine too.

Rerunn

Your question about the pcv is as stated...
The PCV valve lets built up crankcase pressure release. That hose at the back of the valve cover is the pcv hose which connects to the intake plenum for emissions purposes. In theory the crankcase gases, being composed of oil, gas, etc, flow through the PCV valve through the hose into the intake to be burnt.
Your pcv valve is not the problem. If blew smoke is coming out the exhaust it is definitely oil burning. I agree with valve stem seals being the problem if smoking only occurs on start up.

coloradotom

Yeah, that makes lots of sense. Any chance that these new seals just need to get seated? Or something??

Here's the description of what the machine shop did:

"Complete engine rebuild (long block): Disassemble long block engine, hot tanking, gasket prep, glass beading, magnafluxing, valve job, surface head, replace valve guides, bore and hone block, r&r rods & pistons, recondition rods, rebush rods, r&r soft plugs, grind crankshaft and assemble long block engine"

Parts list is one item: "Master engine rebuild kit (with HD timing set)"

One thing I haven't done at all in the break-in driving: lug the fscker. I've gone to pains to keep the RPMs above 2,000. Could that make any difference to the seals?

You know what? I'm not sure that people who don't do serious work on their own vehicles should own 24-year-old vehicles.

Pity the fool.

Rerunn

They don't really need to break in or seat they aren't rocket science to put on. What could have happened is that they used old seals and the rubber just deteriorated slightly and once the valves moved up and down a few revolutions they went to crap.
I know before I replaced mine i used about half a quart between changes. Now I use hardly none if any.
If it were me I'd tell my mechanic...hey this is what's going on and him forward the message to the machine shop. If its something they did they should correct it. You can replace the seals without taking the head off but on a 22 you risk ruining the head gasket as you have to remove the rocker assembly to access the springs.

Is it ONLY smoking on start up?

Lons81

iTrader: (2)

I would keep an eye on your oil consumption for while longer. Some engines take longer break in the rings. After a 1000 miles, check the plugs for correct color. Did they use break in oil in the engine, if so, change it the oil you plan on running at that 1000 mark also. Check again at 2000 mile mark, it will probably be cleared up and not smoking any longer

coloradotom

It is only on start up. They were replaced with new. I made sure that everything was going to be replaced with new, because I didn't want anything left to chance. The kid I got it from said he'd replaced them with new too. He was a tech at a dealership and was getting employee pricing on parts.

The stuff that is not new is all the stuff outside the block. Since it was a startup smoker before the rebuild, I just wonder if there's something outside the hard parts of the motor that could cause this. PCV seems really likely, but as I say it's been checked.

As you say, and as everybody says, it isn't rocket science putting the seals in. My guy says it can be botched, but this guy who rebuilt the long block has done a million of these. He's not some high school kid doing it for the first time.

That's what's driving me nuts. What could it be adding to this, old truck, old motor, fully rebuilt long block but old other stuff? Vacuum system stuff, intake, etc. Old looking hoses. What if there's a plugged hose somewhere? Looks like the PVC vents out into a hose. So the valve is good, what if the hose is plugged?

I just wish I knew more about this stuff myself.

Rerunn

If the hose was plugged it would probably run like crap. If your set on that pcv go buy one. They aren't that expensive. I'd get brass one tho.

j2the-e

Intake and exhaust valve stem seals are different. Perhaps they were reversed

Rerunn

On 22s they are all the same

j2the-e

So much for that theory

snobdds

Read this thread...Your rings may be the problem and you may just have to live with it.

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...ealing-215113/

coloradotom

Yeah. I'm thinking about that. But I still have hope. The engine is still totally new. Only 135 miles on those rings. I'm going to put 300-400 highway miles on it this weekend. If it's still doing this crap then I'll have a better indication.

And that drive will totally give me an idea about whether it's truly consuming oil, or if the puff at startup is just a tiny bit. Maybe it'll just settle in and be perfect by Monday morning!

Rerunn

Yeah I mean at this point I'd let her run a couple hundred and then really worry if it persists.

snobdds

The worst thing you can do it run it on the highway for 300-400 miles at a constant RPM. You need to load up the engine and let the compression slow you down for multiple heat cycles. Don't baby it, that is the worst thing you can do.

coloradotom

Thanks. Yeah, I got that advice and I've followed it. I haven't done any constant RPM driving with it at all, and when I go this weekend I'll mix it up lots.

I haven't been babying it, and I have been engine braking at every opportunity. First thing I did when I picked it up was drive up a mountain pass (a fairly mild one) and then engine braked back down. I did 3rd gear engine brake down to about 2750 rpm then staying in 3rd accelerated (downhill) to 3750 or 3500 or 4000 then back down to 3K or less. Second drive I took I went up 4,500 feet above the town where I live and did the same thing. So in that 135 miles it has on it, about 50 has been down-off-the-pass engine braking.

So yeah, this weekend will be more steady cross-country driving, but it's still Colorado west of I-25. And I'll spend some time at 55-65 mph in 4th gear, 60-70 mph in 5th, etc. No cruise control for sure until I'm past 1000 miles.

Edit: Breakin oil is NAPA 10w-30 with one of these in there:



At 500-700 miles I intend to dump it for Castrol 10w-30 High Mileage dinosaur oil and I got a 10-pack of this stuff for the next 30-40K miles of oil changes:

Dr.Jeckyl

You state that the head was rebuilt with new seals and gaskets but don't say anything about valve guides. If the guides are over sized or just out of spec with respect to side to side motion of the valve that will cause oil to leak past even with new seals. Although only minor but enough to smoke on start up. But I can't see a competent machine shop overlooking the guides. Back in my days of head work that was the first thing I checked upon tear down and reassembly.

Just my $.02
Best of luck.

EDIT: I see where you mention the guides were replaced now. Reading comprehension fail.
Like others have stated some piston rings that are harder tend to take longer to break in.

coloradotom

Thanks for taking a look and adding to this. I'm going with put another 500 miles on it and then start b!tching if there's still a problem. I'm putting my hope on that--not broken in yet.

I'm going to be doing that mileage over the weekend, then I'll change out my break-in oil next week when I get a chance. After that, I'll post to this thread with what I'm finding.

Thanks everybody.