lock front or rear ????
02-07-2007, 03:48 AM
#23
Registered User
Sorry tc, you are wrong. This is a no- brainer. You obviously haven't wheeled much. If you only have one locker, the rear diff locked will have the most positive effect (traction) when 4-wheeling, especially climbing. When the front diff is locked with a locker, your ability to steer is somewhat limited, the front end wants to "push". One trade-off with a rear locker is that is will "buck" when turning sharp and decelerating. The Lockright style lockers do it more than the original Detroit type. Of course in the front, it doesn't matter.
gNARLS.
gNARLS.
I had a rear first and added a front later...so I can't say which would be better to start with. I think that there are pros and cons to both and it probably depends on your suspension type which is better overall.
02-07-2007, 04:54 AM
#24
I DDd mine on 37s with dual ARBs for quite a while.
For a DD...IMO
Front: selectable locker
Rear: Detroit or ARB
Don't skimp $$$ on lockers as I know numerous folks who have busted the cheap "lunchbox" lockers.
Gears and lockers at the same time and pay labor once.
For a DD...IMO
Front: selectable locker
Rear: Detroit or ARB
Don't skimp $$$ on lockers as I know numerous folks who have busted the cheap "lunchbox" lockers.
Gears and lockers at the same time and pay labor once.
02-07-2007, 05:55 AM
#25
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If you want to run in 4wd on the road, I'd rather have a rear locker and open front. If you can tackle all the snow in 2wd and leave the front hubs unlocked, going with a front locker will leave you with completely stock handling for your on road driving. You can lock the hubs and leave it in 2wd on grippy stuff, but if you get on ice there's probably not enough traction to ratchet the locker, which is why I prefer hubs unlocked.
For steep hills, a rear locker is usually better since all the weight has transferred to the rear of the vehicle. But the rest of the time a front locker is good since that's where most of the vehicle weight is located. But on an IFS truck I think a front locker may be better for hill climbing as I've never seen an IFS truck climb without lifting a front tire. The rears stay in contact with the ground.
A friend of mine wheeled for a while with a front locker only and he could get it. His current vehicle is rear locker only and he's commented on how he thought his front locker only setup did a little better offroad. Turning didn't seem to be a problem. As long as one end is unlocked the vehicle doesn't bind up too bad.
AND... when you break a CV your front locker will mean you don't lose 4wd to get your butt off the trail and home.
For steep hills, a rear locker is usually better since all the weight has transferred to the rear of the vehicle. But the rest of the time a front locker is good since that's where most of the vehicle weight is located. But on an IFS truck I think a front locker may be better for hill climbing as I've never seen an IFS truck climb without lifting a front tire. The rears stay in contact with the ground.
A friend of mine wheeled for a while with a front locker only and he could get it. His current vehicle is rear locker only and he's commented on how he thought his front locker only setup did a little better offroad. Turning didn't seem to be a problem. As long as one end is unlocked the vehicle doesn't bind up too bad.
AND... when you break a CV your front locker will mean you don't lose 4wd to get your butt off the trail and home.
02-07-2007, 06:45 AM
#28
Contributing Member
Sorry tc, you are wrong. This is a no- brainer. You obviously haven't wheeled much. If you only have one locker, the rear diff locked will have the most positive effect (traction) when 4-wheeling, especially climbing. When the front diff is locked with a locker, your ability to steer is somewhat limited, the front end wants to "push". One trade-off with a rear locker is that is will "buck" when turning sharp and decelerating. The Lockright style lockers do it more than the original Detroit type. Of course in the front, it doesn't matter.
gNARLS.
gNARLS.
Hasn't wheeled much? Try again. The words you were looking for are: isn't much he hasn't wheeled.
02-07-2007, 07:55 AM
#30
Contributing Member
Let's see...stock truck...just a couple posts...I would be carefuly who you accuse of not wheeling ...between his truck and his gf's truck, I suspect he has got plenty of wheeling time in with a couple different setups. The only thing I would ask him is, has he ever wheeled with JUST a front locker?
Yes, when I installed my ARB's, I had trouble with the rear leaking, so I ran with only the front a couple times before I got the rear fixed. I have the wiring setup as ARB recommends currently, so the rear has to be locked to lock the front, but I VERY rarely run with only the rear locker engaged. When I REALLY need to be locked, I need the front locked.
It's very simple:
1. In an IFS truck, you are much more likely to lift a front wheel than a rear.
2. Being locked in front makes it much easier for the front wheels to pull you up ledges instead of relying on the rear wheels to push you into the face and eventually roll up it.
I DID say there were more downsides to having the front locked, but if the question is which makes more difference offroad, you're going to have a hard time convincing me it's not the front.
Last edited by tc; 02-07-2007 at 07:56 AM.
02-07-2007, 06:37 PM
#31
Contributing Member
you know a people? Thats pretty cool, never heard of that.
Our point wasn't that you were wrong, or that he has more expereince than you
The point simply is that it is asinine to use assume someone hasn't wheeled much or that their opinion isn't vaild becasue they disagree with you.
You have an opinion, so does he. You tried to make a point by insulting him, and that was what people thought was wrong. Try to be nice, you might like it sometime.
Our point wasn't that you were wrong, or that he has more expereince than you
The point simply is that it is asinine to use assume someone hasn't wheeled much or that their opinion isn't vaild becasue they disagree with you.
You have an opinion, so does he. You tried to make a point by insulting him, and that was what people thought was wrong. Try to be nice, you might like it sometime.
02-07-2007, 06:42 PM
#32
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it depends on what axles you've got. if you've got ifs front, lock the rear if you can only do one. no way in hell i would have gone places i have if i only had my front locked. 2 puny ifs axles trying to spin 35's via 7.5" of ring gear as my only way of traction? umm..i'd rather not try.
im a firm believer of the selectable/selectable camp...especially if its a DD/mall crawler like mine is.
im a firm believer of the selectable/selectable camp...especially if its a DD/mall crawler like mine is.
02-07-2007, 06:44 PM
#33
Wheeling aside, a locker of any sort in the rear is a good thing in just regular driving conditions. When you are on the road and hit water or a patch of sand, you're still good to go.
As far as physics is concerned, when you're driving up a hill your rear is loaded more than your front, so a locked rear will make more difference. As far as articulating over obstacles, I think it's a toss-up.
Rear would by far be the most practical. Even when you're in 2WD you go from real 1WD to real 2WD with a rear locker. Put it in the front, and you only have the choice of real 1WD and real 3WD.
As far as physics is concerned, when you're driving up a hill your rear is loaded more than your front, so a locked rear will make more difference. As far as articulating over obstacles, I think it's a toss-up.
Rear would by far be the most practical. Even when you're in 2WD you go from real 1WD to real 2WD with a rear locker. Put it in the front, and you only have the choice of real 1WD and real 3WD.
02-07-2007, 06:46 PM
#34
Contributing Member
No, building a sweet rig and wheeling the crap out of it often makes him an expert. Never mind that he's the NE TTORA President and an advocate for OHV access in the northeast...
gnarls - you really might want to find someone else to pick on, 'cuz he is WAY out of your league.
gnarls - you really might want to find someone else to pick on, 'cuz he is WAY out of your league.
02-07-2007, 06:50 PM
#35
Contributing Member
I agree with that, but I don't know if the question was "which is more practical" or "which will have more of an impact on the capability of the truck"
Last edited by tc; 02-07-2007 at 06:51 PM.
02-07-2007, 07:31 PM
#37
Contributing Member
Ok So about that Tru Trac... (Though I think you have already decided on selectable right?)
The "best" combo depends on what you intend to use your rig for. There is no single right answer.
For hard-core off-roading, you generally want full lock on both front and rear. Having a selectable locker like an ARB in the front can help with the steering issues.
For moderate off-roading, go with a detroit locker in the rear and a truetrak up front. No issues with turning radius with this setup and the truetrak is much kinder on the front linkages and drive shafts than a full locker. But take note: the truetrak will unlock if you pick a front wheel up off the ground which is very common with IFS. You can cause the truetrak to lock again by applying light brakes in this situation. This is no real problem with an automatic tranny, but it can be a bit of a challenge with a manual tranny if you're trying to work the clutch and throttle at the same time. Something to consider when choosing a truetrak.
For hard-core off-roading, you generally want full lock on both front and rear. Having a selectable locker like an ARB in the front can help with the steering issues.
For moderate off-roading, go with a detroit locker in the rear and a truetrak up front. No issues with turning radius with this setup and the truetrak is much kinder on the front linkages and drive shafts than a full locker. But take note: the truetrak will unlock if you pick a front wheel up off the ground which is very common with IFS. You can cause the truetrak to lock again by applying light brakes in this situation. This is no real problem with an automatic tranny, but it can be a bit of a challenge with a manual tranny if you're trying to work the clutch and throttle at the same time. Something to consider when choosing a truetrak.
I am finally eating my words thinking an auto-locker was better than an air. Now that I know better - a selectable locker IMHO is much better!
02-07-2007, 09:36 PM
#38
Registered User
I went with the trutrack and detroit combo for my IFS setup. As I mentioned earlier, it works fine for moderate off-roading, but I wouldn't consider it for rock crawling or more extreme terrain. The type of trails I use it for are just desert sand and gravel with the occasional wash, dead tree limb, and small rocks. I pick a wheel up now and then, but it's usually because I'm passing over a large rut. There's little requirement for crawling or climbing over obstacles in my case, so my setup fits my needs. But as they say, your mileage may vary. Before you start modifying your rig, you have to decide on what you intend to do with it and go from there.
The worst thing you can do is to just start adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff. For example, I wish I had a camera for this POS rig I saw in the parking lot the other day. The owner had lifted it 30" or more. The rocker panels were even with my shoulders and I'm 6'-2". You should have seen the arch in the springs combined with the 6" blocks. The drive shafts were angled 45 degrees and it had 35" tires (or maybe larger) on it. It looked really stupid. I would be scared to drive the thing across the mall parking lot, let alone take it off road. Apparently it scared the owner too because he had extended the bump stops all the way down so that the springs only had about 2" of travel. It must have been a nightmare to drive. I imagine that the owner was probably bragging about how "bad" his rig was. Eesh.
The worst thing you can do is to just start adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff. For example, I wish I had a camera for this POS rig I saw in the parking lot the other day. The owner had lifted it 30" or more. The rocker panels were even with my shoulders and I'm 6'-2". You should have seen the arch in the springs combined with the 6" blocks. The drive shafts were angled 45 degrees and it had 35" tires (or maybe larger) on it. It looked really stupid. I would be scared to drive the thing across the mall parking lot, let alone take it off road. Apparently it scared the owner too because he had extended the bump stops all the way down so that the springs only had about 2" of travel. It must have been a nightmare to drive. I imagine that the owner was probably bragging about how "bad" his rig was. Eesh.
02-07-2007, 10:38 PM
#39
Contributing Member
True dat.. I bought my rig with the tru trac and detroit in the rear already in it... but yeah since I have to fix the ring and pinion - ight as well get in there and do the locker too..
02-07-2007, 11:02 PM
#40
Contributing Member
you need to get that done ASAP dude. From what i hear, you've had the new R&P for like a month and a half now. Git R Done.
