I think I have figured out a way to efficiently place a turbo on my 3vz
03-12-2009, 05:24 PM
#21
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[quote=GVOLCRunner;51086126]
nope that is not what we are saying what we are saying is that not all the 3vze runners and trucks had this head gasket problem I have had mine for 310k and not one problem and I don't exactly baby it
prone to going under normal circumstances??? im sorry, but i take care of my truck and with 260K on it, its never had a head gasket blow...
I love when people say that. Mine didn't, so the massive recall initiated by Toyota due to a pretty serious design flaw MUST be wrong. I am very excited that you got lucky, but in statistical terms you are an outlier. Talk to the MUCH larger statistical group of people that took very good care of their 3vze and had it blow at 40k, 80k, again at 160k. Its a well documented design issue that makes it a weak design. 1. Issue of different mating materials on the block and head causing uneven expansion. The new headgaskets "should" have fixed it. 2. It has a underefficent internal coolant design that by its nature creates UNEVEN cooling patterns causing uneven expansion.
Again. Im stoked you got lucky. There are many out there that did. But, I stand behind DATA and as a former owner of the 3vze. Its the worst engine ive seen on a toyota. The whole issue with it is exactly counter to your claim. Its bad because you can be the BEST owner in the world and it will just pop on you. Thats why Toyota did a MASSIVE recall on the head gaskets.
I love when people say that. Mine didn't, so the massive recall initiated by Toyota due to a pretty serious design flaw MUST be wrong. I am very excited that you got lucky, but in statistical terms you are an outlier. Talk to the MUCH larger statistical group of people that took very good care of their 3vze and had it blow at 40k, 80k, again at 160k. Its a well documented design issue that makes it a weak design. 1. Issue of different mating materials on the block and head causing uneven expansion. The new headgaskets "should" have fixed it. 2. It has a underefficent internal coolant design that by its nature creates UNEVEN cooling patterns causing uneven expansion.
Again. Im stoked you got lucky. There are many out there that did. But, I stand behind DATA and as a former owner of the 3vze. Its the worst engine ive seen on a toyota. The whole issue with it is exactly counter to your claim. Its bad because you can be the BEST owner in the world and it will just pop on you. Thats why Toyota did a MASSIVE recall on the head gaskets.
Last edited by yota_Pirate; 03-12-2009 at 05:25 PM.
03-12-2009, 05:38 PM
#22
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There are thousands of people with problem free high mileage 3vze's without issues. It's just a fact that many people on here amplify problems, as well as they get editorialized and spun a certain way. I know people who have had 3vze head gaskets blow, but the majority of people I know with 3vze's have not had problems with headgaskets going.
03-12-2009, 06:14 PM
#23
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man you guys are rough on each other let the guy dream if he wants to do it let him. yeah 3vze motors love new head gaskets but. if it doesnt work his wife lets him swap a new motor in. so turbo it baby. and pump that bad boy up 25psi and hammer down. then after it grenades in to a million little pieces pull the turbo and put a 7mgte or some other supra in there.
03-12-2009, 06:45 PM
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you could try DEI "direct exhaust injection". lol. just kidding.
i wouldnt waste the effort on a turbo. but if you have the time and some money to throw around go for it.
my choice for turbo would be a 7mgte swap
i wouldnt waste the effort on a turbo. but if you have the time and some money to throw around go for it.
my choice for turbo would be a 7mgte swap
03-12-2009, 09:01 PM
#25
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Space Junk, I'll be up in McLellan for the next month or so, not too far from Wilton, right? PM me and I'll try to work a weekend to come down to ya and let you drive my rig. To be fair, my headgasket didn't pop out of much fault of the engine, my Runner overheated due to a tiny crack in the radiator making it overheat, and even then it drove for another 7,000 miles or so before I had any issue with coolant getting into the cylinder. As far as the power being higher up in the rpm range, not really...quoted from here, which I feel is a reliable source:
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=11245.0
3VZ-E 3 2958 150@4800 180@3400 87.5 82 9:1
5VZ-FE 4 3378 190@4800 220@3600 93.5 82 9.6:1
Dirt Clod, all this stuff I've spewed here aside, I say go for it, and I'm interested to see the end product!
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=11245.0
3VZ-E 3 2958 150@4800 180@3400 87.5 82 9:1
5VZ-FE 4 3378 190@4800 220@3600 93.5 82 9.6:1
Dirt Clod, all this stuff I've spewed here aside, I say go for it, and I'm interested to see the end product!
03-12-2009, 09:30 PM
#26
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If response is a concern, then I don't think a blower would have much on a 3VZ with a TD04-14B/G. I would expect full boost by or before 2000rpm and a healthy bump in torque. The caveat is that power will probably fall off rather early due to exhaust restriction from the small turbine.
03-12-2009, 10:07 PM
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Every time someone talks about turbo/supercharging their 3.0 we get into a [tired] discussion on the "weaknesses" of the 3.0 design. Does it have issues? Of course it does, nearly every engine made by man has issues of one kind or another. Will it stand ridiculously high boost levels? No. Mild boost? I'd say the jury is hung on that one, an engine in good shape... probably.... an iffy engine, one with monday morning disease or a spotty history... most likely not...
Dirt Clod [according to his posts] is only going for a mild boost and is trying a new mount location [yes a mod of the STS remote Turbo idea] and I wish him luck.
I would caution him or anyone with a turbo period that they need to be careful when off roading. Over heating the turbo is possible without overheating the engine as is shock-cooling when fording water bodies... the first will lead to coking the oil and seizure and the latter cracked housings, warped turbines and seized bearings all of which are very bad lol... Before fording you basically need to sit with the engine idling for a five-ten mins. to cool the turbo [the same as after a highway run]... if you have a separate remote oiler/cooler and pump for it shut down but keep the pumps running for the same time, by then the turbo should be cooled enough that you can enter the water safely... use the time to walk out into the water and check for depth and under water hazards [which you should do before every water crossing anyways]...
Dirt Clod [according to his posts] is only going for a mild boost and is trying a new mount location [yes a mod of the STS remote Turbo idea] and I wish him luck.
I would caution him or anyone with a turbo period that they need to be careful when off roading. Over heating the turbo is possible without overheating the engine as is shock-cooling when fording water bodies... the first will lead to coking the oil and seizure and the latter cracked housings, warped turbines and seized bearings all of which are very bad lol... Before fording you basically need to sit with the engine idling for a five-ten mins. to cool the turbo [the same as after a highway run]... if you have a separate remote oiler/cooler and pump for it shut down but keep the pumps running for the same time, by then the turbo should be cooled enough that you can enter the water safely... use the time to walk out into the water and check for depth and under water hazards [which you should do before every water crossing anyways]...
Last edited by aviator; 03-12-2009 at 10:10 PM.
03-13-2009, 12:03 AM
#28
Space Junk, I'll be up in McLellan for the next month or so, not too far from Wilton, right? PM me and I'll try to work a weekend to come down to ya and let you drive my rig. To be fair, my headgasket didn't pop out of much fault of the engine, my Runner overheated due to a tiny crack in the radiator making it overheat, and even then it drove for another 7,000 miles or so before I had any issue with coolant getting into the cylinder. As far as the power being higher up in the rpm range, not really...quoted from here, which I feel is a reliable source:
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=11245.0
3VZ-E 3 2958 150@4800 180@3400 87.5 82 9:1
5VZ-FE 4 3378 190@4800 220@3600 93.5 82 9.6:1
Dirt Clod, all this stuff I've spewed here aside, I say go for it, and I'm interested to see the end product!
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=11245.0
3VZ-E 3 2958 150@4800 180@3400 87.5 82 9:1
5VZ-FE 4 3378 190@4800 220@3600 93.5 82 9.6:1
Dirt Clod, all this stuff I've spewed here aside, I say go for it, and I'm interested to see the end product!
im confused... why should i drive your rig?? not tu be rude, but i do have one myself...
and i drive it everyday...yes, its kind of a slug, but run some 91 octane and regear and it is like a new truck... take care of it and it will last forever... now, turboing it... that will open up a whole new world of possibilities... like getting up to highway speeds BEFORE the onramp ends... im excited...
dirtclod, you got my vote, buddy... DO IT!!!
03-13-2009, 02:39 AM
#29
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you more then definitely have my vote x2 (my girlfriend thinks its cool too) and if it blows atleast you can say you tried it. and you have reason to swap a better motor into it
03-13-2009, 08:48 AM
#30
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Guys " can't we all just get along?"
I started this thread with the intentions of having some helpful input and ideas and support. Ideas are always good to throw around, no matter how quackey, for they initiate other ideas.
I did NOT start this thread to BASH the 3vz engine but rather to glorify it. It recieves enough bashing on here without warrant.
I did NOT start this thread for the sake of argument either.
I would be willing to bet that there are more 3vz's on this site, still running with high miles without major problems compared to bad experiences and stated problems.. I love my 3vz, even though it is poop for power. 193k and doesnt smoke, doesnt use oil, gets me 17 avg mpg, and it's a 4runner! I could come up with something to bash on any motor that could possibly fit in the bay, cut or not. Engines are mechanical and there for it is in there nature to have a problem now and again.
With ANY swap there are more headaches than not. It's complicated enough for the general wheeler to just swap 3.0 - 3.0 or even 22r - 22r. I dont have the time or money to accomodate spending a cpl $k on an engine and the mods and headaches to go with it. (engine, harness, headers, exhaust, OBD, Fuse block, etc...etc...)
This set up is so much eassier than a swap in every way. its just an oil reservoir with a sump, a turbo, an intercooler, some creative plumbing and a bit of welding. Maybe a bit of tinkering afterward. If it works out great, thats great for ALL us 3vz guys.
Hey but if one of ya's wants to come down and buy me a motor and the stuff that gores with it I'm all for it!
I don't mean to ramble , but guys thats enough bashing the 3vz and each other. Thats not what this is for.
Thanks everyone...Blake
I did NOT start this thread to BASH the 3vz engine but rather to glorify it. It recieves enough bashing on here without warrant.
I did NOT start this thread for the sake of argument either.
I would be willing to bet that there are more 3vz's on this site, still running with high miles without major problems compared to bad experiences and stated problems.. I love my 3vz, even though it is poop for power. 193k and doesnt smoke, doesnt use oil, gets me 17 avg mpg, and it's a 4runner! I could come up with something to bash on any motor that could possibly fit in the bay, cut or not. Engines are mechanical and there for it is in there nature to have a problem now and again.
With ANY swap there are more headaches than not. It's complicated enough for the general wheeler to just swap 3.0 - 3.0 or even 22r - 22r. I dont have the time or money to accomodate spending a cpl $k on an engine and the mods and headaches to go with it. (engine, harness, headers, exhaust, OBD, Fuse block, etc...etc...)
This set up is so much eassier than a swap in every way. its just an oil reservoir with a sump, a turbo, an intercooler, some creative plumbing and a bit of welding. Maybe a bit of tinkering afterward. If it works out great, thats great for ALL us 3vz guys.
Hey but if one of ya's wants to come down and buy me a motor and the stuff that gores with it I'm all for it!
I don't mean to ramble , but guys thats enough bashing the 3vz and each other. Thats not what this is for.
Thanks everyone...Blake
03-13-2009, 08:54 AM
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Hm, you might have problems with O2 readings. O2 sensors are placed at a particular distance from the heads (in the exhaust stream) so that they can operate in a specific temperature range.
Keep up the creative work, but keep this in mind if the ECU gives you fits.
Keep up the creative work, but keep this in mind if the ECU gives you fits.
03-13-2009, 09:03 AM
#32
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Space, the idea was to give you a feel for a 5vz swapped vehicle.
Dirt clod, here's about the only constructive input I can come up with:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-maybe-166818/
This could help alleviate some of the heat build up around the #6 cylinder possibly.
Dirt clod, here's about the only constructive input I can come up with:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-maybe-166818/
This could help alleviate some of the heat build up around the #6 cylinder possibly.
03-13-2009, 09:31 AM
#33
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That is a good point. The O2 sensors will need to be positioned at least post-turbine or maybe even further downstream from the turbine and before any cat converters. Narrow band sensors can often take more heat than a wideband, but they can not handle being between the engine and turbo. The pre-turbine pressure will also affect the sensor's function.
03-13-2009, 10:41 AM
#34
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actually I have found more room coming past the cat. So I will be between the cat and the muffler which puts me a cpl feet behind the o2 sens. But I am going to change the o2 sens anyway.(it's coding anyway).
Thanks for that manifold mod link. however I am going to be about 4 feet behind the manifolds. My biggest problem is coming back up from the turbo twice.(inlet and outlet.)
but with the remote oil filter and quite alot of pondering I found a way to fit both. The intake tube for the unit going up to just about where the air box already exists and the outlet is coming up right next to the intake tube, from there I have two configurations I am toying with.
I remove the clutch fan and replace it with an electric, freeing up about 4 inches in front of the motor, and run the outlet between the rad. and mtr. under the batt, thru next to rad support and back across coming behind the grill with intercooler and back through then up to the intake. Prob: removing the clutch fan is becoming more and more questionable. They are prone to fry. keep a spare elect fan...still prone to fry going back thru waht fried the first.
I thought I would keep the clutch and if the elect. fries then I put the clutch back on....plumbing in the way now.
So I am looking for an intercooler either large and flat or small and boxy.
Why couldnt I use a small radiator or oil cooler from a motorcycle or something?...have it dipped and cleaned ...wouldnt that suffice just as well as an intercooler?...hmmmm
If I could fit something small, like this radiator scenario, on the other side of the support in front of where the air box is now and straight back out on the same side. Leaving the clutch.
there it is...my two possibilities for pipe routing
Dropping the exhaust tomorrow , taking pictures, will edit them for you to see my placements....to be honest this is turning out easier than I thought it wpould be
it's my splleing that scuks tdoay....
Thanks for that manifold mod link. however I am going to be about 4 feet behind the manifolds. My biggest problem is coming back up from the turbo twice.(inlet and outlet.)
but with the remote oil filter and quite alot of pondering I found a way to fit both. The intake tube for the unit going up to just about where the air box already exists and the outlet is coming up right next to the intake tube, from there I have two configurations I am toying with.
I remove the clutch fan and replace it with an electric, freeing up about 4 inches in front of the motor, and run the outlet between the rad. and mtr. under the batt, thru next to rad support and back across coming behind the grill with intercooler and back through then up to the intake. Prob: removing the clutch fan is becoming more and more questionable. They are prone to fry. keep a spare elect fan...still prone to fry going back thru waht fried the first.
I thought I would keep the clutch and if the elect. fries then I put the clutch back on....plumbing in the way now.
So I am looking for an intercooler either large and flat or small and boxy.
Why couldnt I use a small radiator or oil cooler from a motorcycle or something?...have it dipped and cleaned ...wouldnt that suffice just as well as an intercooler?...hmmmm
If I could fit something small, like this radiator scenario, on the other side of the support in front of where the air box is now and straight back out on the same side. Leaving the clutch.
there it is...my two possibilities for pipe routing
Dropping the exhaust tomorrow , taking pictures, will edit them for you to see my placements....to be honest this is turning out easier than I thought it wpould be
it's my splleing that scuks tdoay....
Last edited by DIRT CLOD; 03-13-2009 at 10:45 AM.
03-13-2009, 11:24 AM
#35
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A heat exchanger for oil or engine coolant works fine for cooling the intended liquids, but they are a horrible restriction to airflow and not efficient at all. You should be able to run 5psi fine without one, but there are many junkyard intercoolers out there that are relatively small. Mitsubishi Eclipses come to mind.
03-13-2009, 01:19 PM
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A heat exchanger for oil or engine coolant works fine for cooling the intended liquids, but they are a horrible restriction to airflow and not efficient at all. You should be able to run 5psi fine without one, but there are many junkyard intercoolers out there that are relatively small. Mitsubishi Eclipses come to mind.
03-13-2009, 01:21 PM
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The motorcycle rad would be too restrictive as DD mentioned... if you're going for a post cat install location you could ditch the manifolds and get a set of headers installed... upgrade to a free flow cat if you have'nt already they are'nt very spendy and make a big diff.... you may run into an exhaust velocity problem the gases will have slowed somewhat and a post cat restriction may have the effect of backing things up increasing the cat temps... also watch your under floor temps make sure you put in a good heat shield or your rear seat pax will get "hotbutt" or even burned feet...
03-13-2009, 02:22 PM
#38
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BUDGET.... headers are definate plus but affordability is factor. I would like to be forward of the o2 sensor but there isnt enough room and the whole reason wanting to mount farther back is to ward up some room between the the body, wheel well and motor so I can fit both tubes through that side.hence the remote oil filter as well. I am sure the battle plan may change in small details as things are disassembled and reconfigured. My main concern here is, as you know, I will be running new exhaust, cat and unforunately new muffler (and I just put on the magna flow) since I will probably go from existing 2" to 2 and 1/4"...seems appropriate.
" yea yea I can use the radiator as an intercooler and have a 6lb rad. cap on it for the blow off valve...yea, yea"....lol...I still wish that tiny little oil cooler for my old suzuki RM would work. But I do agree on the air restriction factor.
Like I said ..dropping the exhaust on sat. tonorrow...off to the u pull it...look at some scenarios under hood there. I am sure I can find an intercooler to fit plan A....hehe...I wonder how long I will actually be down with no runner......but I got a plan for that too....exh. exchange...change , exchange...get the pic?...lol...thanks guys keep it comin
" yea yea I can use the radiator as an intercooler and have a 6lb rad. cap on it for the blow off valve...yea, yea"....lol...I still wish that tiny little oil cooler for my old suzuki RM would work. But I do agree on the air restriction factor.
Like I said ..dropping the exhaust on sat. tonorrow...off to the u pull it...look at some scenarios under hood there. I am sure I can find an intercooler to fit plan A....hehe...I wonder how long I will actually be down with no runner......but I got a plan for that too....exh. exchange...change , exchange...get the pic?...lol...thanks guys keep it comin
03-13-2009, 02:49 PM
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03-13-2009, 04:03 PM
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junkyard turbos are the way to go! cheap an effective. i cant remember but what size turbo did you plan running? a t3t4? that might be kinda big. i had one on my civic and i was runnin about 14psi an i didnt get full spool up till 4500-5000rpm's. maybe you should look into a t28 i think thats what came with a non ic greddy kit. also for you fuel managment couldnt you just find some bigger injectors that are plug an play an run a vafc? i ran 450cc blue tops from an eagle talon an a vafc. put down pretty good numbers.
anyways thats my 2 cents.
anyways thats my 2 cents.
