I may have ruined my throttle body?
01-08-2009, 05:06 PM
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01-08-2009, 05:08 PM
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01-08-2009, 05:23 PM
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I dont know about the best way , But I used a water hose with a high pressure nozzle on the end of it . I took the radiator out and flushed it for a while . then I put the water hose through the radiator hoses attached to the engine and ran the hose for a while . I then had to use the compressor through this metal pipe that comes out the intake to the heater vale. The hoses that go to and from the heater core were disconnected through all this flushing. I used the water hose through the heater core last. it all worked fine after that. Then about six months later a needed to do the headgasket on this truck.
01-09-2009, 03:50 PM
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RMA...thanks for the advice.....I wish I could do every procedure that you describe but when I got home tonight it was dark.I did purchase PEAK radiator flush and I'm in the process of flushing now.I don't have time to do all the different ways you flushed system because of time and it's going to rain tomorrow and possibly Sunday.I hope that the flushing will get me buy until I can do it rite but, I'm worried about why that red paste (Head gasket or Block Sealer) was put the engine in the first place?
I also still have the idle UP & Down and I don't really get any heat after the 4runner engine is warm at idle.The minute I give it gas I can feel the heat starting to come through the vents or floor which ever position I choose to have it in.
When I let off the gas and go to idle the heat stops coming out and cool air is flowing so it goes back and forth between heat and no heat at idle.The t-stat is new and working I checked it out before I installed it by using heat to check it.I can drive the 4runner and have heat the whole time while driving ...so something doesn't make any sense
I have to go back out and finish my flushing and will update later tonight
thanks for any help
Dwayne
I also still have the idle UP & Down and I don't really get any heat after the 4runner engine is warm at idle.The minute I give it gas I can feel the heat starting to come through the vents or floor which ever position I choose to have it in.
When I let off the gas and go to idle the heat stops coming out and cool air is flowing so it goes back and forth between heat and no heat at idle.The t-stat is new and working I checked it out before I installed it by using heat to check it.I can drive the 4runner and have heat the whole time while driving ...so something doesn't make any sense
I have to go back out and finish my flushing and will update later tonight
thanks for any help
Dwayne
01-09-2009, 04:38 PM
#46
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In all probability, the heater core is way gunked up and can't transfer heat very well. That, and/or the heater control valve is blocked up. Atleast pull the heater valve and see if it needs cleaning. The heater core.....well, that's up to you how you want to do because I know it's a royal pain to get to that. Maybe your flushing will help.
Also, the auxiliary air valve (for cold idle) may be sticking and/or the coolant temp sensor is caked up with the repair additive. Could be part of the idle problem. I hate it for ya, but you might want to take the throttle body off, then take the AAV off and clean it up best you can......if it needs it. Won't know until you look.
The coolant temp sensor.... the same. Pull it out and clean it if it needs it.
I guess you're not having any problems with cold starts?
Also, the auxiliary air valve (for cold idle) may be sticking and/or the coolant temp sensor is caked up with the repair additive. Could be part of the idle problem. I hate it for ya, but you might want to take the throttle body off, then take the AAV off and clean it up best you can......if it needs it. Won't know until you look.
The coolant temp sensor.... the same. Pull it out and clean it if it needs it.
I guess you're not having any problems with cold starts?
01-09-2009, 06:06 PM
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In all probability, the heater core is way gunked up and can't transfer heat very well. That, and/or the heater control valve is blocked up. Atleast pull the heater valve and see if it needs cleaning. The heater core.....well, that's up to you how you want to do because I know it's a royal pain to get to that. Maybe your flushing will help.
Also, the auxiliary air valve (for cold idle) may be sticking and/or the coolant temp sensor is caked up with the repair additive. Could be part of the idle problem. I hate it for ya, but you might want to take the throttle body off, then take the AAV off and clean it up best you can......if it needs it. Won't know until you look.
The coolant temp sensor.... the same. Pull it out and clean it if it needs it.
I guess you're not having any problems with cold starts?
Also, the auxiliary air valve (for cold idle) may be sticking and/or the coolant temp sensor is caked up with the repair additive. Could be part of the idle problem. I hate it for ya, but you might want to take the throttle body off, then take the AAV off and clean it up best you can......if it needs it. Won't know until you look.
The coolant temp sensor.... the same. Pull it out and clean it if it needs it.
I guess you're not having any problems with cold starts?
I have completed the flushing out but I can still see pieces of red lint like material (kinda reminds me of dryer lint but red in color suspended in the solution of coolant and water) floating by the opening in the radiator when the t-stat opens so I guess the total 2hr flush really didn't help much.
I don't have any cold start problems and thanks for asking about that.The 4runner will start up right away will idle up at about 1200 rpm or so and after a while it will idle back down to about 700 rpm.
Just to let you know I still don't have the cat-converter just a straight pipe to the muffler and for some reason my check engine light is not on....but it does work every time I turn on the ignition switch on I can see it just for few seconds so I know it works.I really don't know why it is not on with the cat-converter removed doesn't make any sense to.
I would like to check out all the items you mentioned in your except for the heater core I will have to do that at a later time. I would like to know if you have any pic of the items and locations of each one so I have something to go by?
Last edited by buckz6319; 01-10-2009 at 05:32 AM. Reason: removed section on weird heat problem and will repost later in better detail if I still feel it is a concert
01-09-2009, 10:20 PM
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http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...egoryCode=2049
Last edited by RMA; 01-09-2009 at 10:22 PM.
01-10-2009, 12:18 AM
#50
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All I can say is it depends on who you ask. Some have had good luck with the 3vze and some have not. I've not had any real problems in my wife's 4rnr because of the motor itself. I had to buy a rebuilt because the original motor.....having been rebuilt.....blew the bottom end. Not sure what really happened because in all this time since, I've not taken the crankcase apart to have a look. Other things have simply taken priority. Anyway, that rebuilt was just a botched job by the mechanics, and I suspect it spun a bearing or two or three. (Who knows.....who cares?) Then, I had to rebuild the top end of the replacement rebuild. But, again, a botched job by the mechanic that did it. So far, after several thousand miles and a major, major accident, the motor's still running very strong after the work I've done. It's still a 3.0.......meaning, it doesn't have a lot of bottom end power, but it's been reliable and enough for my needs.
The automatic is another one of those things that depends on who you ask. Like most, I'd really prefer a 5spd to help with already power challenged 3.0 (auto's rely on engine power to drive it, therefore "rob" some power from the motor), but the auto in the same 4rnr mentioned has been very strong and reliable. Then again, I maintain it well.<<<imperative<<< I've only had one problem with it, but that was the speed sensor......which is negligible. They typically go out at around 200k miles. Sensors do wear out. But, on the whole, and according to my observations and inquiries, the auto's are very good transmissions. My local dealership techs and service rep's have told me they don't see a lot of customers having problems with them......problems directly related to the inherent quality, that is. Most of the problems are associated with poor maintenance. Big surprise. Not everyone keeps up on regular fluid changes and/or practice wise driving habits.
On the other hand, as far as the power issue with the auto goes, it could be just a matter of the power source.........the 3.0. Maybe if there was a 3.4 or something similar driving it, it would be different story. The autos do seem to have some tall gearing.
Anyway.....
As for your lack of CEL troublecode because of the lack of a cat, I wouldn't worry about it. Not that the ECU and diagnostics system can even detect a cat, per se. Rather, it would be a matter of an oxygen sensor after it. Does your 4rnr have a post cat O2 sensor?
The fact that your engine idle drops down to normal rpms range once it has reached operating temp is a good sign. It means the AAV is atleast functioning mostly. But, the fact that idle is inconsistent means there is still a problem somewhere. Could be the AAV is sticking open/not shutting completely allowing too much air for a proper warm engine idle tuning. Personally, I'd check it to rule it in or out. The AAV is located on the belly side of the throttle body. You'll have a small coolant line running to and from it.
BTW, have you ruled out any possible vacuum leaks?
The coolant temp sensor is located on the back side of the motor almost underneath the upper intake/plenum. Look back there and you'll a large coolant line running to a cluster of sensors noted by a number of wires going to them all. The temp sensor should have a two wire, grey connector and....going by the memory of sleepy head....is the second one to the right of that large hose. It's not particularly easy to get to, much less to remove it. But, if you have some jointed socket adapters or wobbly extensions, you can reach it. I've even used a plumber's basin wrench. Those work really well. Once you get it out, and clean it if needed, it would be good to even test it. I mean, you've got it out.......why not? Do you have an ohm/voltage meter?
As for your questions on engine heat and being able to touch it, I'll be honest......your post is little difficult to read in this area. So, I'm having a little trouble making sense of it. You leave out some words which could spell needed details. But, from what I gather, I don't think you have a problem there. Now, if you were to go for a drive and the combustion chambers have had a chance to get good and hot, then I'd say there was concern. However, maybe you could revise your post a bit to clarify?
This is the section of the FSM pertinent to your picture inquiry..
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...sm/engine.html
It's not the best source for pics, but maybe it will satisfy. Really, there are great live pics members have submitted on the forum that would be better, but I'll have to leave you to search for them at the moment. If you can't find them, I do know where they are......more or less...but, that would have to wait until tomorrow when I have more time.
The automatic is another one of those things that depends on who you ask. Like most, I'd really prefer a 5spd to help with already power challenged 3.0 (auto's rely on engine power to drive it, therefore "rob" some power from the motor), but the auto in the same 4rnr mentioned has been very strong and reliable. Then again, I maintain it well.<<<imperative<<< I've only had one problem with it, but that was the speed sensor......which is negligible. They typically go out at around 200k miles. Sensors do wear out. But, on the whole, and according to my observations and inquiries, the auto's are very good transmissions. My local dealership techs and service rep's have told me they don't see a lot of customers having problems with them......problems directly related to the inherent quality, that is. Most of the problems are associated with poor maintenance. Big surprise. Not everyone keeps up on regular fluid changes and/or practice wise driving habits.
On the other hand, as far as the power issue with the auto goes, it could be just a matter of the power source.........the 3.0. Maybe if there was a 3.4 or something similar driving it, it would be different story. The autos do seem to have some tall gearing.
Anyway.....
As for your lack of CEL troublecode because of the lack of a cat, I wouldn't worry about it. Not that the ECU and diagnostics system can even detect a cat, per se. Rather, it would be a matter of an oxygen sensor after it. Does your 4rnr have a post cat O2 sensor?
The fact that your engine idle drops down to normal rpms range once it has reached operating temp is a good sign. It means the AAV is atleast functioning mostly. But, the fact that idle is inconsistent means there is still a problem somewhere. Could be the AAV is sticking open/not shutting completely allowing too much air for a proper warm engine idle tuning. Personally, I'd check it to rule it in or out. The AAV is located on the belly side of the throttle body. You'll have a small coolant line running to and from it.
BTW, have you ruled out any possible vacuum leaks?
The coolant temp sensor is located on the back side of the motor almost underneath the upper intake/plenum. Look back there and you'll a large coolant line running to a cluster of sensors noted by a number of wires going to them all. The temp sensor should have a two wire, grey connector and....going by the memory of sleepy head....is the second one to the right of that large hose. It's not particularly easy to get to, much less to remove it. But, if you have some jointed socket adapters or wobbly extensions, you can reach it. I've even used a plumber's basin wrench. Those work really well. Once you get it out, and clean it if needed, it would be good to even test it. I mean, you've got it out.......why not? Do you have an ohm/voltage meter?
As for your questions on engine heat and being able to touch it, I'll be honest......your post is little difficult to read in this area. So, I'm having a little trouble making sense of it. You leave out some words which could spell needed details. But, from what I gather, I don't think you have a problem there. Now, if you were to go for a drive and the combustion chambers have had a chance to get good and hot, then I'd say there was concern. However, maybe you could revise your post a bit to clarify?
This is the section of the FSM pertinent to your picture inquiry..
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...sm/engine.html
It's not the best source for pics, but maybe it will satisfy. Really, there are great live pics members have submitted on the forum that would be better, but I'll have to leave you to search for them at the moment. If you can't find them, I do know where they are......more or less
...but, that would have to wait until tomorrow when I have more time.
01-10-2009, 05:25 AM
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All I can say is it depends on who you ask. Some have had good luck with the 3vze and some have not. I've not had any real problems in my wife's 4rnr because of the motor itself. I had to buy a rebuilt because the original motor.....having been rebuilt.....blew the bottom end. Not sure what really happened because in all this time since, I've not taken the crankcase apart to have a look. Other things have simply taken priority. Anyway, that rebuilt was just a botched job by the mechanics, and I suspect it spun a bearing or two or three. (Who knows.....who cares?) Then, I had to rebuild the top end of the replacement rebuild. But, again, a botched job by the mechanic that did it. So far, after several thousand miles and a major, major accident, the motor's still running very strong after the work I've done. It's still a 3.0.......meaning, it doesn't have a lot of bottom end power, but it's been reliable and enough for my needs.
The automatic is another one of those things that depends on who you ask. Like most, I'd really prefer a 5spd to help with already power challenged 3.0 (auto's rely on engine power to drive it, therefore "rob" some power from the motor), but the auto in the same 4rnr mentioned has been very strong and reliable. Then again, I maintain it well.<<<imperative<<< I've only had one problem with it, but that was the speed sensor......which is negligible. They typically go out at around 200k miles. Sensors do wear out. But, on the whole, and according to my observations and inquiries, the auto's are very good transmissions. My local dealership techs and service rep's have told me they don't see a lot of customers having problems with them......problems directly related to the inherent quality, that is. Most of the problems are associated with poor maintenance. Big surprise. Not everyone keeps up on regular fluid changes and/or practice wise driving habits.
On the other hand, as far as the power issue with the auto goes, it could be just a matter of the power source.........the 3.0. Maybe if there was a 3.4 or something similar driving it, it would be different story. The autos do seem to have some tall gearing.
Anyway.....
As for your lack of CEL troublecode because of the lack of a cat, I wouldn't worry about it. Not that the ECU and diagnostics system can even detect a cat, per se. Rather, it would be a matter of an oxygen sensor after it. Does your 4rnr have a post cat O2 sensor?
The fact that your engine idle drops down to normal rpms range once it has reached operating temp is a good sign. It means the AAV is atleast functioning mostly. But, the fact that idle is inconsistent means there is still a problem somewhere. Could be the AAV is sticking open/not shutting completely allowing too much air for a proper warm engine idle tuning. Personally, I'd check it to rule it in or out. The AAV is located on the belly side of the throttle body. You'll have a small coolant line running to and from it.
BTW, have you ruled out any possible vacuum leaks?
The coolant temp sensor is located on the back side of the motor almost underneath the upper intake/plenum. Look back there and you'll a large coolant line running to a cluster of sensors noted by a number of wires going to them all. The temp sensor should have a two wire, grey connector and....going by the memory of sleepy head....is the second one to the right of that large hose. It's not particularly easy to get to, much less to remove it. But, if you have some jointed socket adapters or wobbly extensions, you can reach it. I've even used a plumber's basin wrench. Those work really well. Once you get it out, and clean it if needed, it would be good to even test it. I mean, you've got it out.......why not? Do you have an ohm/voltage meter?
As for your questions on engine heat and being able to touch it, I'll be honest......your post is little difficult to read in this area. So, I'm having a little trouble making sense of it. You leave out some words which could spell needed details. But, from what I gather, I don't think you have a problem there. Now, if you were to go for a drive and the combustion chambers have had a chance to get good and hot, then I'd say there was concern. However, maybe you could revise your post a bit to clarify?
This is the section of the FSM pertinent to your picture inquiry..
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...sm/engine.html
It's not the best source for pics, but maybe it will satisfy. Really, there are great live pics members have submitted on the forum that would be better, but I'll have to leave you to search for them at the moment. If you can't find them, I do know where they are......more or less...but, that would have to wait until tomorrow when I have more time.
The automatic is another one of those things that depends on who you ask. Like most, I'd really prefer a 5spd to help with already power challenged 3.0 (auto's rely on engine power to drive it, therefore "rob" some power from the motor), but the auto in the same 4rnr mentioned has been very strong and reliable. Then again, I maintain it well.<<<imperative<<< I've only had one problem with it, but that was the speed sensor......which is negligible. They typically go out at around 200k miles. Sensors do wear out. But, on the whole, and according to my observations and inquiries, the auto's are very good transmissions. My local dealership techs and service rep's have told me they don't see a lot of customers having problems with them......problems directly related to the inherent quality, that is. Most of the problems are associated with poor maintenance. Big surprise. Not everyone keeps up on regular fluid changes and/or practice wise driving habits.
On the other hand, as far as the power issue with the auto goes, it could be just a matter of the power source.........the 3.0. Maybe if there was a 3.4 or something similar driving it, it would be different story. The autos do seem to have some tall gearing.
Anyway.....
As for your lack of CEL troublecode because of the lack of a cat, I wouldn't worry about it. Not that the ECU and diagnostics system can even detect a cat, per se. Rather, it would be a matter of an oxygen sensor after it. Does your 4rnr have a post cat O2 sensor?
The fact that your engine idle drops down to normal rpms range once it has reached operating temp is a good sign. It means the AAV is atleast functioning mostly. But, the fact that idle is inconsistent means there is still a problem somewhere. Could be the AAV is sticking open/not shutting completely allowing too much air for a proper warm engine idle tuning. Personally, I'd check it to rule it in or out. The AAV is located on the belly side of the throttle body. You'll have a small coolant line running to and from it.
BTW, have you ruled out any possible vacuum leaks?
The coolant temp sensor is located on the back side of the motor almost underneath the upper intake/plenum. Look back there and you'll a large coolant line running to a cluster of sensors noted by a number of wires going to them all. The temp sensor should have a two wire, grey connector and....going by the memory of sleepy head....is the second one to the right of that large hose. It's not particularly easy to get to, much less to remove it. But, if you have some jointed socket adapters or wobbly extensions, you can reach it. I've even used a plumber's basin wrench. Those work really well. Once you get it out, and clean it if needed, it would be good to even test it. I mean, you've got it out.......why not? Do you have an ohm/voltage meter?
As for your questions on engine heat and being able to touch it, I'll be honest......your post is little difficult to read in this area. So, I'm having a little trouble making sense of it. You leave out some words which could spell needed details. But, from what I gather, I don't think you have a problem there. Now, if you were to go for a drive and the combustion chambers have had a chance to get good and hot, then I'd say there was concern. However, maybe you could revise your post a bit to clarify?
This is the section of the FSM pertinent to your picture inquiry..
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...sm/engine.html
It's not the best source for pics, but maybe it will satisfy. Really, there are great live pics members have submitted on the forum that would be better, but I'll have to leave you to search for them at the moment. If you can't find them, I do know where they are......more or less
...but, that would have to wait until tomorrow when I have more time.Well I have a pre cat 02 sensor.....I know this AVV I saw it on the bottom of the throttle bottom belly it has 2 coolant hoses going to it.I did remove the screws holding the cover on the TB and the inside was clean no gunk just kinda faint red film on the walls nothing to worry about there.
Vacuum leaks...I have checked and double checked all the vacuum lines...for hook up and did even spray some starting fluid around the entire top side of the engine and plenum but I had no rpm changes at all
The coolant temp sensor.... I have seen that back behind the rear intake plenum and on the drivers side it has a gray connector with 2 wires on top.I do have a lot of mechanic tools and should have something that will work to remove it and clean it and check it also...provided I can get to it
I do have a ohm/voltage meter and if I can remember how to use the darn thing I can check the ohms on that part.
Thanks ...I will take the advice on revising my post on the engine heat issue I was a bit tired and brain dried and really couldn't focus well but that section will be revised some time this evening.I need something to do inside while it's raining tonight hevy thunder storms
01-10-2009, 06:15 AM
#52
more than likelly you have an air pocket in your coolant causing the idle issue from removing the throttle body. and the red stuff in the coolant can still be tranny fluid. if you have a small leak in the trns cooler inside the radiator the fluid will enter the coolant first because the trans has higher pressure than the coolant system.not letting the coolant to enter the trans fluid.
01-10-2009, 06:52 AM
#53
Registered User
Mr. Toytech.....air pocket's definitely a consideration, but did you see the pics? That doesn't look really look like how ATF mixes with coolant. Then again, I suppose it is a pic, and it could be three things; coolant, atf, and head gasket sealer.
If you haven't done this already, and if you still have contaminated coolant around to do this with, let it sit in a drain pan for a bit and then look at it. If there were ATF present, it will seperate from the coolant. It is, afterall, oil.
If you haven't done this already, and if you still have contaminated coolant around to do this with, let it sit in a drain pan for a bit and then look at it. If there were ATF present, it will seperate from the coolant. It is, afterall, oil.
01-10-2009, 10:00 AM
#54
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thook...just to let you know I did let some coolant set in the 5 gallon bucket I drained the radiator coolant into.
I let it set over night and this morning when I went out side to look at the coolant in the bucket and the red stuff has settled to the bottom and just water was on top.... no oil floating on top so I think we can rule out the possibility of ATF in the radiator
It was a good call about the ATF fluid in the rediator and I would remember to at least check for that in the future...
I would have to go with the head gasket in a bottle or block sealer in this case
I let it set over night and this morning when I went out side to look at the coolant in the bucket and the red stuff has settled to the bottom and just water was on top.... no oil floating on top so I think we can rule out the possibility of ATF in the radiator
It was a good call about the ATF fluid in the rediator and I would remember to at least check for that in the future...
I would have to go with the head gasket in a bottle or block sealer in this case
Last edited by buckz6319; 01-10-2009 at 10:05 AM.
01-10-2009, 04:45 PM
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thook...once again thanks for all the input....and even though my 4runner has all these problems I haven't been stranded on the side of the road yet...that's a good thing...but trying to stay ahead of the issues that pop up is with this 4runner is wearing me out! I have two other autos that require my attention also my wife's and daughter's Camery 4cyl auto Great Car!...PT Cruiser Great Car just regular maintaining for now but this runner seems to take priority with it's fix me NOW! signs....well moving on..
Well I have a pre cat 02 sensor.....I know this AVV I saw it on the bottom of the throttle bottom belly it has 2 coolant hoses going to it.I did remove the screws holding the cover on the TB and the inside was clean no gunk just kinda faint red film on the walls nothing to worry about there.
Vacuum leaks...I have checked and double checked all the vacuum lines...for hook up and did even spray some starting fluid around the entire top side of the engine and plenum but I had no rpm changes at all
The coolant temp sensor.... I have seen that back behind the rear intake plenum and on the drivers side it has a gray connector with 2 wires on top.I do have a lot of mechanic tools and should have something that will work to remove it and clean it and check it also...provided I can get to it
I do have a ohm/voltage meter and if I can remember how to use the darn thing I can check the ohms on that part.
Thanks ...I will take the advice on revising my post on the engine heat issue I was a bit tired and brain dried and really couldn't focus well but that section will be revised some time this evening.I need something to do inside while it's raining tonight hevy thunder storms
Well I have a pre cat 02 sensor.....I know this AVV I saw it on the bottom of the throttle bottom belly it has 2 coolant hoses going to it.I did remove the screws holding the cover on the TB and the inside was clean no gunk just kinda faint red film on the walls nothing to worry about there.
Vacuum leaks...I have checked and double checked all the vacuum lines...for hook up and did even spray some starting fluid around the entire top side of the engine and plenum but I had no rpm changes at all
The coolant temp sensor.... I have seen that back behind the rear intake plenum and on the drivers side it has a gray connector with 2 wires on top.I do have a lot of mechanic tools and should have something that will work to remove it and clean it and check it also...provided I can get to it
I do have a ohm/voltage meter and if I can remember how to use the darn thing I can check the ohms on that part.
Thanks ...I will take the advice on revising my post on the engine heat issue I was a bit tired and brain dried and really couldn't focus well but that section will be revised some time this evening.I need something to do inside while it's raining tonight hevy thunder storms
I have discovered that my idle speed adjusting screw on the throttle body does not work properly per the Haynes manual... so I think my Air Valve is either gunked up or bad and needs to be replaced or hopefully cleaned out?
How I found out this may be a problem? ......I did the test in the Haynes manual said to... start it up (cold) and let it reach a steady idle.Check the air valve operation by fully screwing in the idle speed adjusting screw.The engine rpm should drop while the engine is still cold (which my engine rpms does).....After the engine warms up, the engine rpm should not drop with the idle speed adjusting screw all the way in (which my my engine rpm drops with the screw all the way in and will almost die)..
I also can take the idle speed adjusting screw completely out of the throttle body and the engine will die...
The o-ring appears to be in good condition on that screw
Here is a pic of the location of that screw..Yellow Arrow pointing to the screw & the Red Arrow point to the Epoxy Plug I used to close up the hole in the throttle body (just a reminder)
Last edited by buckz6319; 01-10-2009 at 04:49 PM. Reason: had to add the correct pic and just a few more words also..
01-10-2009, 07:59 PM
#56
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I don't have time to fully reply at the moment, but the test you ran for the AAV with the idle speed screw indicates that the AAV is working fine.....and your idle speed screw/bypass valve is working fine. It seems you are confusing things a bit. Again, I don't have time to explain, but I will maybe later tonight or definitely tomorrow.
01-11-2009, 06:23 AM
#57
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thook....looking forward to your reply............and confusing things yes most likely as usual but willing to understand what to do correctly
Just to let you know the screw in the pic that has the Yellow Arrow pointing to it has something to do with the idle per the haynes manual btw the pics in that manual aren't as good as they could be.
OK I went out this morning just a few minutes ago and the air temp here out side is 39 and damp.I started the engine cold and it started right up but sounded like it was flooding out a little then smoothed out within about 30 sec or so.The rpms were at about 1100 per the rpm gauge so I turned the idle speed adjusting screw clockwise to seat it and this time the engine did not drop rpms nothing happened.
I backed out the screw to it's normal position and let the engine continue to warm to operating temp and did here the rpms start to drop as the engine warms to correct operating temp.The rpms only droped down to about 900 rpms at normal operating temp.I then turned the idle speed adjusting screw clock wise again to fully seat it and the engine started to die.
Now with this being said even though setting here idling in my drive way I put the engine in drive and the rpms drop to about 700 and if I drive it like to the store up the street about 6 miles and stop the rpms drop down to about 500 but not any lower....Now all I have to go on with the rpms numbers is the tac on the gauge cluster and unless the needle is pointing on 1 or 0 the marks in between are estimates because there are no numbers between the 1 & 0 .To be more accurate I have to buy a dwell meter
any way maybe this will give you some idea of what is going on...and this morning while the engine was warming up I started to feel some HEAT! flowing through the vents...JOY! for now
Dwayne
Just to let you know the screw in the pic that has the Yellow Arrow pointing to it has something to do with the idle per the haynes manual btw the pics in that manual aren't as good as they could be.
OK I went out this morning just a few minutes ago and the air temp here out side is 39 and damp.I started the engine cold and it started right up but sounded like it was flooding out a little then smoothed out within about 30 sec or so.The rpms were at about 1100 per the rpm gauge so I turned the idle speed adjusting screw clockwise to seat it and this time the engine did not drop rpms nothing happened.
I backed out the screw to it's normal position and let the engine continue to warm to operating temp and did here the rpms start to drop as the engine warms to correct operating temp.The rpms only droped down to about 900 rpms at normal operating temp.I then turned the idle speed adjusting screw clock wise again to fully seat it and the engine started to die.
Now with this being said even though setting here idling in my drive way I put the engine in drive and the rpms drop to about 700 and if I drive it like to the store up the street about 6 miles and stop the rpms drop down to about 500 but not any lower....Now all I have to go on with the rpms numbers is the tac on the gauge cluster and unless the needle is pointing on 1 or 0 the marks in between are estimates because there are no numbers between the 1 & 0 .To be more accurate I have to buy a dwell meter
any way maybe this will give you some idea of what is going on...and this morning while the engine was warming up I started to feel some HEAT! flowing through the vents...JOY!
for nowDwayne
Last edited by buckz6319; 01-11-2009 at 07:19 AM. Reason: in correct information
01-11-2009, 12:17 PM
#58
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Update...........I went for a drive in the 4runner just up the street and back home and the engine is blowing blue smoke at idle a lot of blue smoke!....I think I have bigger problems than the idle issue or the idle issue is contributing to the blue smoke.
I can't see the blue smoke coming out the exhaust (OIL) as I'm driving.... but I can sure see it when the 4runner comes to a stop at idle....is there any thing I can to to help this issue.......I see this 4runner falling apart again right before my vary eyes again..
I can't see the blue smoke coming out the exhaust (OIL) as I'm driving.... but I can sure see it when the 4runner comes to a stop at idle....is there any thing I can to to help this issue.......I see this 4runner falling apart again right before my vary eyes again..
01-11-2009, 09:08 PM
#59
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Oh crap....really? Wow. I hope we haven't been barking up the wrong tree with this....like a burned valve or something. Are you sure the smoke is really blue and not whitish?
You should run a compression test. Also, see if there is an excessive amount of oil in the PCV valve. That will be under the plenum on the pass side valve cover. And, sooo fun to get to it. Hehe...it's not that bad, really. Hopefully, though, you have some long needle nose pliars. If not, get some! They're very handy, anyway. Particularly if you're feeling all thumbs one day and drop parts down in and/or around the motor and you don't have hands like a barbie doll.
Just to let you know the screw in the pic that has the Yellow Arrow pointing to it has something to do with the idle per the haynes manual btw the pics in that manual aren't as good as they could be.
OK I went out this morning just a few minutes ago and the air temp here out side is 39 and damp.I started the engine cold and it started right up but sounded like it was flooding out a little then smoothed out within about 30 sec or so.The rpms were at about 1100 per the rpm gauge so I turned the idle speed adjusting screw clockwise to seat it and this time the engine did not drop rpms nothing happened.
I backed out the screw to it's normal position and let the engine continue to warm to operating temp and did here the rpms start to drop as the engine warms to correct operating temp.The rpms only droped down to about 900 rpms at normal operating temp.I then turned the idle speed adjusting screw clock wise again to fully seat it and the engine started to die.
Alright, to explain a little........
The motor's gotta have air to burn fuel, right? And, there's only three ways that air gets into through the throttle body; the throttle valve (the butterfly plate), the idle bypass valve (where that idle screw is), and the AAV.
At idle (the condition in which to test the AAV), there's only a slight opening at the throttle plate. But, that's not really enough to keep the motor running. So, you then have the idle bypass valve and the AAV. The idle adjust screw (the screw you have the yellow arrow pointing to) regulates the amount of air through the bypass valve, and the AAV regulates air flow through opening or shutting courtesy of coolant temps (open when cool and slowly closes the warmer it gets).
Now, when the motor's cold and you turn the idle screw inward, the bypass valve is closed leaving the only other sufficient way for air to get in.....the open AAV. The idle should drop significantly, but the motor still has enough air to run. BUT, when the AAV closes and you close the idle screw/bypass valve, you only have the throttle plate. Not enough air. So, the motor should then either die or nearly die. It will completely die if the engine vacuum should drop so low as to allow the vacuum operated throttle opener to stop functioning thereby allowing the throttle plate to shut entirely. The throttle opener is on the same side of the throttle body as the TPS. It "fine tunes" the base idle. I'll stop there, though. How it functions in regards to the throttle plate is not really necessary to understanding the test.
Here's a link that explains the air induction system:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h21.pdf
Taken from this website on Toyota technical training:
http://www.autoshop101.com/
Anyway, since on the last test you ran when the motor was cold did not cause the rpm's to drop, that means there is some other way air is getting in. But, go ahead and run the compression test and check the PCV. I'm hoping you don't find any issues there. If you do, obviously you'll have more going on than an air induction issue.
You should run a compression test. Also, see if there is an excessive amount of oil in the PCV valve. That will be under the plenum on the pass side valve cover. And, sooo fun to get to it. Hehe...it's not that bad, really. Hopefully, though, you have some long needle nose pliars. If not, get some! They're very handy, anyway. Particularly if you're feeling all thumbs one day and drop parts down in and/or around the motor and you don't have hands like a barbie doll.
Just to let you know the screw in the pic that has the Yellow Arrow pointing to it has something to do with the idle per the haynes manual btw the pics in that manual aren't as good as they could be.
OK I went out this morning just a few minutes ago and the air temp here out side is 39 and damp.I started the engine cold and it started right up but sounded like it was flooding out a little then smoothed out within about 30 sec or so.The rpms were at about 1100 per the rpm gauge so I turned the idle speed adjusting screw clockwise to seat it and this time the engine did not drop rpms nothing happened.
I backed out the screw to it's normal position and let the engine continue to warm to operating temp and did here the rpms start to drop as the engine warms to correct operating temp.The rpms only droped down to about 900 rpms at normal operating temp.I then turned the idle speed adjusting screw clock wise again to fully seat it and the engine started to die.
Alright, to explain a little........
The motor's gotta have air to burn fuel, right? And, there's only three ways that air gets into through the throttle body; the throttle valve (the butterfly plate), the idle bypass valve (where that idle screw is), and the AAV.
At idle (the condition in which to test the AAV), there's only a slight opening at the throttle plate. But, that's not really enough to keep the motor running. So, you then have the idle bypass valve and the AAV. The idle adjust screw (the screw you have the yellow arrow pointing to) regulates the amount of air through the bypass valve, and the AAV regulates air flow through opening or shutting courtesy of coolant temps (open when cool and slowly closes the warmer it gets).
Now, when the motor's cold and you turn the idle screw inward, the bypass valve is closed leaving the only other sufficient way for air to get in.....the open AAV. The idle should drop significantly, but the motor still has enough air to run. BUT, when the AAV closes and you close the idle screw/bypass valve, you only have the throttle plate. Not enough air. So, the motor should then either die or nearly die. It will completely die if the engine vacuum should drop so low as to allow the vacuum operated throttle opener to stop functioning thereby allowing the throttle plate to shut entirely. The throttle opener is on the same side of the throttle body as the TPS. It "fine tunes" the base idle. I'll stop there, though. How it functions in regards to the throttle plate is not really necessary to understanding the test.
Here's a link that explains the air induction system:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h21.pdf
Taken from this website on Toyota technical training:
http://www.autoshop101.com/
Anyway, since on the last test you ran when the motor was cold did not cause the rpm's to drop, that means there is some other way air is getting in. But, go ahead and run the compression test and check the PCV. I'm hoping you don't find any issues there. If you do, obviously you'll have more going on than an air induction issue.
01-12-2009, 02:27 AM
#60
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Oh crap....really? Wow. I hope we haven't been barking up the wrong tree with this....like a burned valve or something. Are you sure the smoke is really blue and not whitish?
You should run a compression test. Also, see if there is an excessive amount of oil in the PCV valve. That will be under the plenum on the pass side valve cover. And, sooo fun to get to it. Hehe...it's not that bad, really. Hopefully, though, you have some long needle nose pliars. If not, get some! They're very handy, anyway. Particularly if you're feeling all thumbs one day and drop parts down in and/or around the motor and you don't have hands like a barbie doll.
Alright, to explain a little........
The motor's gotta have air to burn fuel, right? And, there's only three ways that air gets into through the throttle body; the throttle valve (the butterfly plate), the idle bypass valve (where that idle screw is), and the AAV.
At idle (the condition in which to test the AAV), there's only a slight opening at the throttle plate. But, that's not really enough to keep the motor running. So, you then have the idle bypass valve and the AAV. The idle adjust screw (the screw you have the yellow arrow pointing to) regulates the amount of air through the bypass valve, and the AAV regulates air flow through opening or shutting courtesy of coolant temps (open when cool and slowly closes the warmer it gets).
Now, when the motor's cold and you turn the idle screw inward, the bypass valve is closed leaving the only other sufficient way for air to get in.....the open AAV. The idle should drop significantly, but the motor still has enough air to run. BUT, when the AAV closes and you close the idle screw/bypass valve, you only have the throttle plate. Not enough air. So, the motor should then either die or nearly die. It will completely die if the engine vacuum should drop so low as to allow the vacuum operated throttle opener to stop functioning thereby allowing the throttle plate to shut entirely. The throttle opener is on the same side of the throttle body as the TPS. It "fine tunes" the base idle. I'll stop there, though. How it functions in regards to the throttle plate is not really necessary to understanding the test.
Here's a link that explains the air induction system:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h21.pdf
Taken from this website on Toyota technical training:
http://www.autoshop101.com/
Anyway, since on the last test you ran when the motor was cold did not cause the rpm's to drop, that means there is some other way air is getting in. But, go ahead and run the compression test and check the PCV. I'm hoping you don't find any issues there. If you do, obviously you'll have more going on than an air induction issue.
You should run a compression test. Also, see if there is an excessive amount of oil in the PCV valve. That will be under the plenum on the pass side valve cover. And, sooo fun to get to it. Hehe...it's not that bad, really. Hopefully, though, you have some long needle nose pliars. If not, get some! They're very handy, anyway. Particularly if you're feeling all thumbs one day and drop parts down in and/or around the motor and you don't have hands like a barbie doll.
Alright, to explain a little........
The motor's gotta have air to burn fuel, right? And, there's only three ways that air gets into through the throttle body; the throttle valve (the butterfly plate), the idle bypass valve (where that idle screw is), and the AAV.
At idle (the condition in which to test the AAV), there's only a slight opening at the throttle plate. But, that's not really enough to keep the motor running. So, you then have the idle bypass valve and the AAV. The idle adjust screw (the screw you have the yellow arrow pointing to) regulates the amount of air through the bypass valve, and the AAV regulates air flow through opening or shutting courtesy of coolant temps (open when cool and slowly closes the warmer it gets).
Now, when the motor's cold and you turn the idle screw inward, the bypass valve is closed leaving the only other sufficient way for air to get in.....the open AAV. The idle should drop significantly, but the motor still has enough air to run. BUT, when the AAV closes and you close the idle screw/bypass valve, you only have the throttle plate. Not enough air. So, the motor should then either die or nearly die. It will completely die if the engine vacuum should drop so low as to allow the vacuum operated throttle opener to stop functioning thereby allowing the throttle plate to shut entirely. The throttle opener is on the same side of the throttle body as the TPS. It "fine tunes" the base idle. I'll stop there, though. How it functions in regards to the throttle plate is not really necessary to understanding the test.
Here's a link that explains the air induction system:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h21.pdf
Taken from this website on Toyota technical training:
http://www.autoshop101.com/
Anyway, since on the last test you ran when the motor was cold did not cause the rpm's to drop, that means there is some other way air is getting in. But, go ahead and run the compression test and check the PCV. I'm hoping you don't find any issues there. If you do, obviously you'll have more going on than an air induction issue.
The PVC valve you mentioned I know where it is I came across it when I had to remove the intake plenum to replace the valve cover gaskets and I also replaced it at that time. I have to say these 3.0 valve cover gaskets were the hardest I ever had to replace and I've been working on autos sense I was 14 and.
anyway going to work now and will take a pic of the blue smoke and post this evening
Dwayne
