Cryo VS Forging
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cryo VS Forging
As you all know im tryin to twin turbo my 3vz but first i even start with the turbos i need to make sure that the bottom end of the 3vz will hold the pressure. So my question is........What is better for making the crankshaft, connecting rods, And piston stronger? Forging or Cryo?
Also does any one know anyone that forges or does cyro??
And other thing i have read that the piston wouldnt really need to be forged or cryo because the first things that would break woud be the crank or connecting rods. this is were i read it from http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/qu...5203449AAN2Rbc
Thanks guys!
Also does any one know anyone that forges or does cyro??
And other thing i have read that the piston wouldnt really need to be forged or cryo because the first things that would break woud be the crank or connecting rods. this is were i read it from http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/qu...5203449AAN2Rbc
Thanks guys!
#2
Contributing Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: TENN Native Languishing in Virginia
Posts: 4,787
Likes: 0
Received 34 Likes
on
14 Posts
I posted this link on toyotanation.com in response to your question there as well. This engine can be configured for 300 hp pretty easily & still weigh less than the 3VZE; it was purchased by Rover from Buick & still used today as their 3.5 liter V-8. First appeared in their Triumph TR-8:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/215-3...spagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/215-3...spagenameZWDVW
#3
Contributing Member
Ummm - forging and cryo are TOTALLY different things, and you can have both.
Forging is how they make the part. Basically, you take a hot (2000F) piece of metal and squish it with a powerful press. This results in a finer, more uniform internal grain structure to the metal compared to casting. Think of the difference between cheap pine and oak.
Cryo is a heat treatment process where the metal is cooled to a very low temperature. As steel is heated, it transforms internally from one crystal structure to another (it's why hot steel isn't magnetic). When you do normal cooling, sometimes some of the crystals get "stuck" in the higher temperature form. When you get it cold enough, you can force most of them to change over to the stronger room temperature structure which gives you more uniform properties.
Forging is how they make the part. Basically, you take a hot (2000F) piece of metal and squish it with a powerful press. This results in a finer, more uniform internal grain structure to the metal compared to casting. Think of the difference between cheap pine and oak.
Cryo is a heat treatment process where the metal is cooled to a very low temperature. As steel is heated, it transforms internally from one crystal structure to another (it's why hot steel isn't magnetic). When you do normal cooling, sometimes some of the crystals get "stuck" in the higher temperature form. When you get it cold enough, you can force most of them to change over to the stronger room temperature structure which gives you more uniform properties.
#5
Registered User
As mentioned before, if you're putting enough power through the v6 to need a custom crank, converting to a 4.3L or something like it - which has a ton of high performance parts available (including superchargers/turbos) would be a more constructive and effective way to go...
What's your plan for EFI? You'll hit the limitations of the factory EFI far in advance of twisting up your crank. Waay in advance....
I've never seen a twin turbo (non-sequential) V6. Have you considered using a single turbo that meets your needs for power? Garrett builds these beautiful ball bearing water cooled turbos (GT-series) that spool down low and can flow a lot of air...
#6
Contributing Member
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...ad.php?t=64180
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think the weakest link on this motor will be the connecting rods then the crankshaft. Im trying to at least see if i could anywhere near 400hp out this motor.
Does you guy know anyone that forges i cant find no one. Also wouldnt it be alot cheap to cyroed the pistons, crank, and connecting rods?
Does you guy know anyone that forges i cant find no one. Also wouldnt it be alot cheap to cyroed the pistons, crank, and connecting rods?
Trending Topics
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA.
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've seen a crank be the weakest link on one guys supercharged 5VZ here:
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...ad.php?t=64180
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...ad.php?t=64180
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my problem is cant find anyone, and the only ones i see doing forged pistons is DOA. and we all know about DOA. also i wanna see if the 3vz-fe crank will fit the 3vz-e block.
#11
Registered User
"They don't make most of the parts they're selling"
I'm much less concerned with buying individual parts. If you're concerned with reputation, be concerned with assembled products, not individual parts.
The quality of that part has almost nothing to do with the vendor, unless the part is spec'd wrong or produced by that vendor exclusively.
The forged slug you get from DOA is the same forged slug you get from LC. They originate from CP piston...
IE - Tim's just going to go to a reputable shop that builds rods and source the parts at a wholesale price. If you want custom rods, talk to the guys building custom pistons - Venolia, CP piston, maybe Wiesco... They'll have a reference for or be able to send you to a vendor that sells for them directly. Hell, I'd bet that Tim would tell you who makes the rods that he sells.
Again: Whatcha going to do for timing / fuel? Bolting the greatest single/twin turbo setup to a 3.0L won't do anything for you if you can't manage it. Reminds me of a guy over on the F-150 forum that spent 8k+ on a 5.4L motor, only to find that it ran like crap on stock fuel injection.
I haven't seen a lot of aftermarket EFI offerings for the 3.0L - or at least none that anyone was willing to put the time in.
#13
Registered User
Shoes, one thing you could do is get MS setup and working with your motor now. It makes debug of issues way easier than trying to swap a brand new high-end motor in, debug EFI issues, tune fuel, and tune spark at once.
You'd be many a 3.0L owner's hero if you get MS working with the 3.0 - I believe you'd be the first person to do it.
I think it's very doable, just not a lot of market for non factory EFI on the 3.0.
You'd be many a 3.0L owner's hero if you get MS working with the 3.0 - I believe you'd be the first person to do it.
I think it's very doable, just not a lot of market for non factory EFI on the 3.0.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
chevota1991
The Classifieds GraveYard
5
03-06-2008 07:18 AM
truckmike26
General Vehicle Related Topics (Non Year Related)
19
02-26-2008 07:51 AM
4runnermax
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners
10
02-10-2006 11:14 AM
YotaTruck1986
95.5-2004 Tacomas & 96-2002 4Runners
19
01-03-2005 11:20 PM
3vz, automotive, connecting, crank, crankshafts, cryo, cryoforging, cyroing, fe, forging, make, metal, pistons, rods, shotpeening, stronger, treat, verses