joedirt724356

how the helldo you get the rotors off? do yo need a press?

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

IFS, I think you have to beat the wheel studs out, pull them off.
SFA, beat the wheel studs out and remove 2 bolts.

A service manual such as Hayne's or Chilton's at your local yokal auto parts place should detail this procedure as well as a FSM.

I believe Autozone has online service manuals as well.

infiltrator

hi, i wanted to add in/ask a question too

i have a 95 4runner too with horrible brakes.. i have to start stopping far back, and definately have no brake power.

my rotors are CRAP!

i had them "machined" once to fix the warping, and now they are back to warpage..

when i stop, my steeringwheel shakes!!!, my brakes scream when i brake!!!

i heard you guys are changing calipers, how would i know to change mine or not? also, i heard LC rotors are cheap, (from here) and would like to know where i could get a pair?

or any links to cheap rotors with pads packages? how much are we looking at here?

FredTJ

You realize, don't you, that words "cheap" and "brakes" should never be used in the same sentence.


For good rotors, that are relatively inexpensive, get a set of the NAPA premium grade rotors. For the front disk pads, the EBC (DP7992 for gen II 4 Runners) are simply the best you can get, for the money IF you seat/break them in correctly.
They'll stop the vehicle and stand it on it's nose.

A blind study was done with a bunch of different brake pads (using new or turned rotors, within spec still) and these shocked everyone who tried them.
I run 'em.




Fred

FredTJ

On a GenII 4Runner ??
If so, you have to take the hub off, turn it over and you'll see the 4 bolts holding the rotor to the hub. Remove the bolts and the rotor comes right off.
ALWAYS replace the inner seal on the hub when you remove the hub, if the seal hasn't been replaced in some time and, since it's all apart, repack the wheel bearings.




Fred

infiltrator

where do you get this "seal"? does it come with rotor/pads packages?

thanks fred, there is a napa store here, ill have to check, in the meantime, ill look online.
yeah i meant "inexpensive" and brakes heh.

FredTJ

Any parts store, including Napa, should have them.
It's the inner seal for the wheel bearings.
When you remove the hub you'll have a set of wheel bearings on the "outside" of the hub, the end closest to the tire, and a set wheel bearings on the inside of the hub. There is also a seal on the inside edge of the inner wheel bearings and that's the seal that should be replaced.

You'll need to follow the procedure when re-installing the hub, to get the correct torque on the axle nuts.




Fred

infiltrator

okay, im looking on this website autopartswarehouse.com and they have these ebc rotors for like 160 bucks. i mean, this is probably the most im looking to spend, but hell if it stops me, why not.

is it worth it?

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/pr...ory=brake_disc

heres a link, theres tons of rotors for the runner, if you can find some better ones for a better price, or just ones that will last long, and stop me, let me know, im in the dark here lol.

also, i cant find "drum" brakes for the back... i mean, can drums get warped? my friend told me usually they dont under normal driving and says he doesnt think i need to replace them. what should i do?

FredTJ

The Brembo's should work just fine. No need to slotted/drilled rotors.



Fred

infiltrator

im getting kinda confused/ mad at this website here..

it shows 2 types of "brembo" rotors. they are different sizes, and as far as i can see both fit my truck???

this cant be, how can 2 diameter rotors fit the same caliperrr???

i have 2wd, 1995 4runner, which one will work?

i asked the "live help" and after waiting 15 minutes while on here looking, they tell me "ask your mechanic what the exact specifications are" its crap!

can someone tell me the diameter/ thickness/ etc???

or pick a product # on here?

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

I don't know jack about Brembo rotors as I use OEM rotors but I would suggest that you go outside to your truck and measure the diameter of the rotor on your truck.

Good luck.

infiltrator

or, on the link pick (a few posts up) pick one that will fit lol!

thefallman

Back to this discussion with Fred about Drilled and slotted this got pretty heated the last time it was talked about with him.

btw dont use a ceramic pad, use the cheap metalic pads. I put the upgraded napa ceramics on my truck and had to change them again, in less then a year. I've had the metalics on for 3 almost 4 years just now need changing.


And a last note on drilled/slotted rotors. Fred and I disagree on alot of things but i have used them i have plenty of friends that have used them. and they keep the rotors cooler, they grip harder, and since they keep the rotors cooler they WILL Prevent warpage. It comes down to whats your personal choice. If i have the money the next time i change rotors on my truck i will put drilled and slotted on it with some Hawk HP Plus pads.

FredTJ

Drilled rotors provide less stopping power (all other things equal) than blanks. The physics simply can't be denied.
Look at any type of race car and see what they run.
Since I've really into F1 huge now, and am real familiar with what they run (they are the fastest race cars that have to actually turn . They go from 200 miles per hour to 50 miles per hour in right under 3 seconds and in less than 100 meters. They pull up to 6 g's at times. Poke around the web and see what they run, rotor wise.

Regarding warpage, simply pay more than $10.00 for the rotor

NAPA's premium rotors don't warp, for example.



Gee, sorry to hear that. They rate towards the bottom of the list for stopping.
A good friend of mine, Blaine Johnson along with Van from Vanco (http://www.vancopbs.com/) just finished a blind study testing various disk brake pads, that the people running them didn't know which pads they were trying. They had to break them in as instructed and they ran them for 30 days and them tried another set of pads (brand unknown to them). Same rules, then rated them for stopping power.
Hawks were towards the bottom of the list.
BTW, the rotors were not drilled.

The best disk brake pads, proven, are the EBC 7000's (out of those that they tested). I run them now (DP7992 for the 2nd Gen fronts with the 3.0) and my 4Runner will stand on it's nose if you hit them hard.

They must be broken in correctly, but if they are, and are installed with new rotors, or rotors turned true (with a by-directional finish and within specs) they will stop better than ANYTHING else out there.
Proven......




Fred

thefallman

Fred i seem to remember you bringing up the same arguement the last time this subject was discussed on this board and it being dismissed quite easily.

You cannot say look at any race car, because as stated earlier some racecars DOOOO use drilled and slotted. What do you think my drilled and slotted rotors where on. HMM my drag car. Oh and it seems as i remember it from the last thread on this subject, you have never actually used drilled and slotted. You just spout your calculations as fact.

It is a proven fact that numbers arent always everything. If numbers where, there would be no factory recalls ever. Because i guarantee that they got the Numbers right when they designed the part or at least as close as they could get.

Another thing is that your examples of highspeed rotors such as F1 and others are not applicable because these rotors are made out of differnt materials. These materials do not warp in the regular fasion and btw only work properly once heated. Go do your own research if you had done it properly and fairly to begin with you would have noted the differnces in pads and rotors on most highspeed race cars.

There is a reason that motorcycles and other atv's have been using drilled and slotted rotors for ages. IT WORKS.


LOL just because they have a life time guarantee does not mean that they dont warp. I damn well guarantee that i can warp them and i can do it in less then a half hour with brand new rotors.



As far as the pads you may be right on that issue all i have to go on is that they worked much better then anything that i had used prior to that time.

IT might be nice if you shared your PROPER seating method since you keep promoting it so much. then maybe we all could have better and longer lasting breaks.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

hows about them apples>!

FredTJ

It was "dismissed" by those who simply don't know here on this board and no others.
You and the couple of others who simply are, it appears ill-informed, or simply unwilling to research, can't deny the physics of how and why brakes work, no matter how hard y'all try.
Hopefully most of the others take a few minutes to do a little research.


Yes, some race cars do use drilled and/or scalloped rotors. Some non-winged sprints on the left front (they don't run a right front brake) for instance, HOWEVER it's not for stopping. It's to help turn the car. They do it strictly for weight savings not for cooling.
Any others do it for weight savings at the expensive of braking effectiveness.

Mmmm, either you like to lie, or you simply don't remember well.

I'll give you the BOD and blame your memory.

I NEVER said that I haven't use drilled and/or slotted rotors. I highly suggest that you revisit the post instead of putting words in my mouth and I don't appreciate the fact that you do.

In fact, I HAVE used drilled and slotted rotors and drilled rotors along with "blanks" both solid and vented.


Yes, some of the more sophisticated cars use exotic materials, but they use them for their heat sinking properties and their ability to stand up to the huge
temperatures that they encounter.
None are drilled for cooling.
Look are more "ordinary" racers, like NASCAR cars. No drilled rotors there.

I used the NAPA premium rotors as an example (I'm running them now BTW), not because of their supposed lifetime warranty, but because they simply don't warp in the relative short period of time like the 10cent rotors do and, if the pads and rotors are seated correctly to begin with they don't seem to warp during their normal wear life.
As Blaine said once to someone "pay more than 12 dollars for your rotors" and that person simply stared with the looks of a deer in the headlights of an oncoming car. Didn't have a clue.


Proper seating method is dependent on the make of pad.
For instance, for the Performance Friction pads.
- Do 3 or 4 easy to moderate stops from 25mph ~ 30 miles per hour(coming to a complete stop each time), then drive around for 20 minutes or so to cool the pads off. Try not to brake during the cool down.
- Next do 3 moderately hard stops from 45 ~ 50 miles per hour. Drive around for another 20 minutes or so to cool the pads, again, trying not to stop.

Other pads have other break in requirements.

The EBC's are a little more involved but they REALLY work..

The vast majority of people never break in the pads and end up (usually) just glazing the snot out 'em.

As I've mentioned in other threads (how's your memory) the original purpose for drilled rotors (again from the racing scene) was not for cooling, but to allow the out gassing from the pads to escape instead of building up between the pad and rotor surface.

It was soon figured out that cross drilling the rotors reduced both the surface area and the mass of the rotor, both of which are hugely important for braking function. Modern day pad material really doesn't produce gas (out gassing) now, especially at temperatures that our vehicles see.

Some very, very high speed applications that produce extremely high temps, do see some out gassing and, as I've already explained earlier, they use other methods to stop the buildup of gas between the rotor and pad surface so that they do not have to reduce the surface area and mass of the rotor.

Brakes work by converting kinetic energy to heat. It does that through friction. The friction that's produced when the pad is pressed against the surface of the rotor. Material construction, pressure of the pad being pressed against the rotor and the surface area are the three main things that determine the effectiveness of the conversion.
Drilling holes through the rotor reduces the surface area of the rotor and it's easy to see for anyone who actually looks at one. The surface reduction can be significant 25% or more.
The mass of the rotor acts as a heat sink and that's hugely important for the effectiveness of the conversion.
Drill holes through the rotor and you remove not only surface area, but also mass, neither of which are good things.

Anyway, I'm kinda through with this sillyness.

It's only a few people here that, for some reason, simply refuse to take the time to research and study up on brakes, how they work, why, etc.

BTW, here's a picture of the rear brake (they only run one rear, inboard brake) of a winged sprint just as it pulled off into the infield pits.

The color is correct. It's was night and taken with a flash, thus the somewhat poor quality.

For those who are interested, do a little research (the 'net has several really good search engines and there is a ton of information available ) to see how hot the iron has to be to glow basically white.

Not, no drilled rotors for "cooling" here. Vented blanks for the most mass (heat sink ability) and surface area.





Fred

FredTJ

Well DUH.......
Who thick are they and why aren't they drilled ????
Why do they use carbon/carbon (the correct term for them),
BTW, if water was a problem as in your link that you provided, then why wasn't it a problem, brake wise, last weekend ??????


Anyway, I mentioned in my other post, I'm basically through with the sillyness.

FredTJ

Opps, a couple of links that should help the few of you out.


http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1024509


http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1046511


Please, take the time to read through the many pages here.
If anyone really had a vested interest in these it would be this crew


A good site:

http://www.gti-vr6.net/library/wheel...ed_rotors.html



Opps, lost the link for this:


http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Nissan_...ication/Brakes



http://www.automotivearticles.com/12...Practice.shtml




Fred

Brenjen

Hate to dredge up a three month old thread just to say...wow; but......wow.

I have been running my '95 on the pads & rotors that came on the truck when I bought it & I'm thinking of replacing them while doing other extensive maintenance & possibly upgrades. I know my rotors are fair (the truck stops) but one side had a pad go past worn out to completely gone at some point in it's life because there are grooves worn into the inside of the disc.

I have been reading up on the best rotors to use (never cared for slotted & drilled) I've narrowed it down to OEM,NAPA or Brembo solid vented rotors, any others to look at that have a good rep?

EDIT: Went with Beck Arnley premiums, so eh...we'll see. A buddy of mine said he liked them.