drew303

Been meaning to ask this.

If normal compression is up around 180psi, why would 100psi (to hold the valves seated) cause headgasket problems???

spacoli

Don't quote me on this. But I think the concern is the head bolts need removed because they go through the rocker assembly which needs removed to get to the valve springs,retainers and seals. Then the head would no longer be bolted down.

I'm not sure if it's possible, but I was thinking after the rocker assembly was removed, rebolt the head back down with some shorter bolts or the head bolts with allot of washers to take up that space of the rocker assembly. Then you can put the air pressure to it to keep the valve up and replace the seals.

Would the head gasket still be good after all that or do I want to take that chance, I don't know?

Anyone, is this a posibility?

drew303

ah.... I've never dug into a 22 head so I didnt know that.

yeah, knowing this I'd do the Head Gasket anyways.

DudeBud

i wouldn't try it because you loosen the head, and it could move and mess up the gasket, it's almost like reusing a head gasket. it may work for awhile but i wouldn't risk it. much better to do it right and pull the head.

toyota_mdt_tech

Compresser air wont work on a 22RE, as the rocker ass'y has to come off which is held on by th e headbolts. You MUST take the head loose and do it. But it doens thave to come all the way off. Just tip it on its side.

dg

My 22RE is also using a fair amount of oil and I'm pretty sure it's valve seals.
Since I don't want to pull the head, do you think it would be possible to partially stuff a cylinder with rope or whatever, compress a valve spring in place, let the valve drop an inch or so into the cylinder, pull the spring. replace the seal, replace the spring, push the valve back up, put in the locks and decompress?

Other than not having a compression tool that would fit in the space wouldn't this work?

Is it ok to spin the valve? Don't they rotate while running anyway?

dg

Just to be clear, I would not be pulling the rockers.

spacoli

It's been a while since I have been under the valve cover. How do you not take the rockers off to get to the valve seals?

I have not changed my seals yet, but I hope to soon. It seems to be smoking allot more and I have some oil coming out of one of my spark plug holes. Not sure what thats from? Spark plug wasn't loose, but when I pulled it to check it, I noticed some head thread in the spark plug thread. I put it back in and it seemed to tighten good. Might just be a bad crush washer? I'm thinking that must be where my bad valve seal (or one of) is at with all the oil showing up.

I give up on trying to do it without removing the head. I plan on removing the head myself and taking it to a shop to check the head, maybe a valve job and replace the seals.

zlathim

Probably not. The valve must be fully seated in order to get the compressed spring and keepers back in. I wouldn't advise stuffing a bunch of rope or anything else into the cylinders at all.

If I was going to sell it soon, I would try the shorter bolts and tighten the head down before airing up the cylinder. I wouldn't do it on something I was going to keep and depend on, unless I was real hard up for money anyway.

dg

How do you get the valve seal out without removing the rocker? I've never done it , but if you can get the spring compressed with the rocker in place and pull the locks, the valve should drop into the cylinder. Now you just remove the spring and tool as one. Like I said, I don't think anybody makes a tool quite in that shape, but why not?

Now you have the valve poking up a little and you swap seals.

As for getting the spring and locks back on, maybe you don't stuff the cylinder with rope, maybe you make a tool out of material that won't damage the plug threads (like strong plastic) and you put it in the plug hole and use it to lever the valve back into the seat. Won't take any force. Keep the piston up high enough that the valve can't fall all the way out of the guide if you slip with your tool a few times.

This may sound nuts, but I would do almost anything to not have to remove a head that has a good head gasket on it.

The Toyota manual for the 87 22R I used to have said the pan had to come off when I did the chain. I never pulled the pan. And the engine never leaked a drop.

dg

I was looking at a photo of the valve gear online and notice the rockers look like they can slide sideways a little against a small spring. Anybody know how much they can slide?

dg

So nobody has responded to my last e-mails. Was my idea too ridiculous?

spacoli

All you can do is open it up and see what your options are. I don't think you can slide the rockers over enough. I think I looked at that.

I was going to try it. I borrowed all the tools and opened it up and I didn't think I could get the tool that compresses the spring on the rear valves, so I give up. I was going to do the compressed air method to hold the valve up. I had some peices of pipe cut as spacers to replace the rocker assembly and rebolt the head down so the air wouldn't blow the gasket.

I'm not a experianced mechanic (I'm just a backyard wrench). The guy I borrowed the tools from could probably do it and I would trust him not to ruin the head gasket, that's how good he is. He is used to big money jobs like rebuilding auto trannys.


Keep us updated.

Swansen

oh man, that is a good idea, i didn't even think about that, but there is still the problem of the head moving once you have all the bolts off. ..... Yeah, i thought about using to ratchet straps to keep tension on the head/block, and this might work? i'll have to talk to my mechanic friend. On a side note, everything involving the head is about the only downfall of the 22RE....

DYNNOMMYTE

It all depends on how much mechanical aptitude you have for this sort of thing. If you wrench on cars for a living, then its most likely the route you would take.
If you are a weekend wrencher, study the service manual and get to know what you are getting involved in....

Swansen

???? lol, um i think i would FIRE my mechanic if he was going to take the route we are going to go here. I JUST took the engine apart like 6k ago?? for the timing chain, and i am not about to do that again, that i don't have something to drive in the meantime, i got lucky last time there. Lastly, there is a VERY good chance that the head gasket will die in the process of unbolting the head...

---edit---
oh yeah, before some one asks, the stems are bad because while i was having it checked for flatness, and unannounced to me, the guy helping me/running the auto repair at the had them pressure test the head. Of coarse he didn't know i didn't send valve stems with it... and i guess the machine shop was dumb enough to take it apart and re-use the old stems..... completely retarded, i'm kinda finding out about all this now... so it sucks... bad communication on a team effort is a bad deal...

toy power

i thought that you could just move the rocker for each valve to the side and do it without taking the head loose

Swansen

nope, they don't move far enough, they hit the lobes on the cam, tried loosening the adjustment screw all the way also, no avail.

khoopes

Interesting. I use a qt at least every 300 miles. The ti
ming cover leaks bad and I have the same symptoms as you on the smoking. I have tried 20/50, STP and still smoke. I am having the truck painted this week (Centari 8D8 original light blue metallic) so I will have to fix the leak or change the engine to keep oil off the side of the truck.