22r build or 22ret bulid? or swap? All purpose vehicle
11-29-2011, 01:00 PM
#21
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yea, the whole reason i chose for a swap was because i had done everything but a high compression build for my 22r. it was great for creepin in the woods and around town, but same problem, on the freeway it was a pig. got great mileage tho!
i had the following mods: rebuild 22r block and head, .020 over, stock gaskets, 32/36 weber carb, offenhauser intake manifold, RV cam, Hedman header, custom 2.5 inch exhaust with dynomax muffler, msd blaster coil, magnacore wires, ngk coppers (changed every 3k with oil), custom brass terminalled cap with rotor, custom cold air hood scoop, sealed from engine heat etc...
it was a very solid 135 hp on good days. i plugged 25 mpg on long trips and 20-22 in town. problem was id have to shift down to 4th and 3rd sometimes just go get around and up hills with my camper shell on..
so yea, the cost i put into my 22r, not worth it. hence why i went for a swap. more power, same or better mileage, and the same or better dependability..
i had the following mods: rebuild 22r block and head, .020 over, stock gaskets, 32/36 weber carb, offenhauser intake manifold, RV cam, Hedman header, custom 2.5 inch exhaust with dynomax muffler, msd blaster coil, magnacore wires, ngk coppers (changed every 3k with oil), custom brass terminalled cap with rotor, custom cold air hood scoop, sealed from engine heat etc...
it was a very solid 135 hp on good days. i plugged 25 mpg on long trips and 20-22 in town. problem was id have to shift down to 4th and 3rd sometimes just go get around and up hills with my camper shell on..
so yea, the cost i put into my 22r, not worth it. hence why i went for a swap. more power, same or better mileage, and the same or better dependability..
11-29-2011, 01:14 PM
#22
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Well based on this I think I will only go.for.the MSD blaster ignition and.coil to.replace.the.OEM. my.original igniter burned out on me a.few.years back and.left.me.stranded. Bought a used OEM one off eBay but it's just a matter of time before that used one Burns out and.leaves me stranded again.
Is there any noticeable performance peep gain from this alone. Toyota new part last I.checked was over $400....?
Is there any noticeable performance peep gain from this alone. Toyota new part last I.checked was over $400....?
11-29-2011, 06:08 PM
#23
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performance, maybe if you had access to a dyno and cared about 1-2 hp.
my biggest notice was from the improved idle quality, part throttle cruise and possibly helped with mileage. i did all the upgrades at once, so its hard to say.
its definitely an improvement over the stock coil. youll have to add a couple eyelets on the wires for the blaster coils terminals, but other than that its pretty cake. its not a direct bolt on but the 15 min it takes is worth it in my book.
my biggest notice was from the improved idle quality, part throttle cruise and possibly helped with mileage. i did all the upgrades at once, so its hard to say.
its definitely an improvement over the stock coil. youll have to add a couple eyelets on the wires for the blaster coils terminals, but other than that its pretty cake. its not a direct bolt on but the 15 min it takes is worth it in my book.
11-30-2011, 07:09 PM
#24
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Okay….spent some time on the phone today with LC Engineering in AZ. Even prior to this call…I was leaning towards keeping the 22r.
Turns out for a 22R stoker engine plus Weber Carb I’m looking at $5,000 or so plus shipping.
This engine would be in the 160 hp range or so which I’d frankly be fairly happy with compared with what seems to be a bit of a tired stock engine. I very well may go this route someday but for now I will stick with an ignition upgrade and as soon as the factory carb gives me much more grief I’ll put a Weber on it vs another overhaul.
My main concern short term is the alarming amount of oil it consumes when pulling my trailer full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear.
When taking a freeway exit it tends to sputter which I assume must be the intake is getting choked with some oil or a carb issue?
Turns out for a 22R stoker engine plus Weber Carb I’m looking at $5,000 or so plus shipping.
This engine would be in the 160 hp range or so which I’d frankly be fairly happy with compared with what seems to be a bit of a tired stock engine. I very well may go this route someday but for now I will stick with an ignition upgrade and as soon as the factory carb gives me much more grief I’ll put a Weber on it vs another overhaul.
My main concern short term is the alarming amount of oil it consumes when pulling my trailer full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear.
When taking a freeway exit it tends to sputter which I assume must be the intake is getting choked with some oil or a carb issue?
Last edited by 1985eXtraCab4x4; 11-30-2011 at 07:14 PM.
12-01-2011, 11:19 AM
#25
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5k is a bit much in my mind for a stroker setup. and for only 160 hp...a 5m makes that stock and will bolt to a w56. a 7m makes 200 hp stock and a gte makes 235 stock and they will both bolt to a w56 (gte would be more acceptable behind an r150/151f, that would require a custom bellhousing or adapter plate and flywheel spacer.)
if you are bent on keeping the 22r (which is a great platform cuz its super durable and reliable) and are willing to spend close to that money, id check out their draw through supercharger system. here it is, and on low boost (5 psi, you could probably stick with stock pistons, or get some from a 22rte for a few bux) it would out perform the stroker, and probably get better mileage or at least the same. add in a weber carb, and you even at all retail price youre way under 5k, for about the same performance. figure 3500 for the kit, carb and pistons.
toss in some valve seals (why i think youre getting oil) and youre pretty set. the only other way i think you could be burning oil is blow-by from the rings. either way, you should do a compression test and leak-down test. that will tell you more about the condition of your motor and help you locate the oil problem.
in my mind, the stroker setup is kewl, but not really worth the 5k. you can get alot more for alot less.
but, it is your truck and your money. either way good luck with it, and post up when you do whatever you do!
if you are bent on keeping the 22r (which is a great platform cuz its super durable and reliable) and are willing to spend close to that money, id check out their draw through supercharger system. here it is, and on low boost (5 psi, you could probably stick with stock pistons, or get some from a 22rte for a few bux) it would out perform the stroker, and probably get better mileage or at least the same. add in a weber carb, and you even at all retail price youre way under 5k, for about the same performance. figure 3500 for the kit, carb and pistons.
toss in some valve seals (why i think youre getting oil) and youre pretty set. the only other way i think you could be burning oil is blow-by from the rings. either way, you should do a compression test and leak-down test. that will tell you more about the condition of your motor and help you locate the oil problem.
in my mind, the stroker setup is kewl, but not really worth the 5k. you can get alot more for alot less.
but, it is your truck and your money. either way good luck with it, and post up when you do whatever you do!
Last edited by 87hilux7mgze; 12-01-2011 at 11:21 AM.
12-03-2011, 03:02 PM
#28
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So how much power can the standard 5 speed really handle?
12-03-2011, 04:40 PM
#29
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ive seen w56's handle alot, ive seen them handle little to nothing.
r series trans will always be stronger, but the best thing you could do is take an r series trans and put the gear driven case behind it. then you get the best of both worlds.
my freind in MT has a full roller 350 that makes about 400 hp in his truck, and is still rocking all toyota tranny (r151f modded to take gear driven t-cases), tcases, driveshafts and axles (SAS) and he regularly muds and crawls his. he is NOT nice to his truck, and drives the piss out of it. granted he fixes it right if it ever breaks. the only thing i recall him ever doing is replacing his axles after he snapped a front and rear, and he broke a rear pinion.
replaced with used stock stuff, works great for him.
i plan on pushing the limits of the w56 with my setup, so i pretty well know ill be switching to a r154 and modding it for tcase or an r150/151f with tcase mod.
r series trans will always be stronger, but the best thing you could do is take an r series trans and put the gear driven case behind it. then you get the best of both worlds.
my freind in MT has a full roller 350 that makes about 400 hp in his truck, and is still rocking all toyota tranny (r151f modded to take gear driven t-cases), tcases, driveshafts and axles (SAS) and he regularly muds and crawls his. he is NOT nice to his truck, and drives the piss out of it. granted he fixes it right if it ever breaks. the only thing i recall him ever doing is replacing his axles after he snapped a front and rear, and he broke a rear pinion.
replaced with used stock stuff, works great for him.
i plan on pushing the limits of the w56 with my setup, so i pretty well know ill be switching to a r154 and modding it for tcase or an r150/151f with tcase mod.
11-22-2012, 07:50 PM
#32
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Anyhow....back to the LC Engineering Supercharger wondering how much extra HP that will deliver over the stock motor? http://www.lceperformance.com/22R-Su...-p/1073000.htm
Last edited by 1985eXtraCab4x4; 11-22-2012 at 07:54 PM.
11-22-2012, 08:18 PM
#33
Are you looking to SC the '85 or the T100?
I personally did the 3RZ swap into my '84 and I love it. If I were to have an option prior to doing my swap, between a 3RZ and a blown 22R, I would still go 3RZ. Better mileage, better engine design overall, and still room for upgrading. I love the Toy 4bangers, but even supercharging a 22R, you're still close to same power of a NA 3RZ, but with less reliability and much more tuning.
I personally did the 3RZ swap into my '84 and I love it. If I were to have an option prior to doing my swap, between a 3RZ and a blown 22R, I would still go 3RZ. Better mileage, better engine design overall, and still room for upgrading. I love the Toy 4bangers, but even supercharging a 22R, you're still close to same power of a NA 3RZ, but with less reliability and much more tuning.
11-23-2012, 08:06 AM
#34
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SC would be for the 22r.
The [new to me] T100 3.4 5VZ power train will remain as is since that truck produces decent power and torque as is. I am interested in minor cost effective HP tweaks and auto transmission reliability upgrades since I bought this truck for my lawn care buisness as a more reliable, yet still tow capable for under #3500 trailer weight.....than turning to the dark side of a potentially less reliable less cost effective domestic 1/2 ton.
....Anyhow back to my stock 85 22r. It has been subjected to towing my 6x12 enclosed and frankly does okay around town but freeway highway duty is basically full throttle in 3rd and 4th gear to maintain 57-62 mph. When subjected to this abuse it will blow through 1/2 quart to 3/4 of oil in a tank of gas. I suspect the catalytic converter is shot on obstructed with all that blown oil.
I'm 97% sure the valve seals are shot but I believe the bottom end of the engine to be reasonably sound. Coolant is gradually disappearing despite my local shop did a head gasket change few year back.
------
My local Toyota non dealer specialist "THE SHOP" recommends the following:
Pull the head and send out to shop for a valve job and replace valve seals. Cost on that valve job and seals under $200
Do a ring job on the motor and re hone the cylinders put the head back on. Cost on that would be $1200....
THE SHOP is not a fan of weber carbs and prefers to fix the factory carb.
THE SHOP is not a fan of non stock cam and says a header and less restrictive exhaust will deliver the most bang for the buck on HP gain.
From March through early November I have next to zero free time to be burning hours working on my own rigs running my lawn biz plus another business.
I’m thinking that doing a total engine swap [I can do during the winter months] and exhaust replacement might be less hassle and yield a better end result. I’d really like the repowered truck to have right around 170 -200 hp with the ability to get low to mid 20’s on fuel burn with lighter driving.
So.... is the 3RZ a reasonably straight forward hassle free swap....?
The [new to me] T100 3.4 5VZ power train will remain as is since that truck produces decent power and torque as is. I am interested in minor cost effective HP tweaks and auto transmission reliability upgrades since I bought this truck for my lawn care buisness as a more reliable, yet still tow capable for under #3500 trailer weight.....than turning to the dark side of a potentially less reliable less cost effective domestic 1/2 ton.
....Anyhow back to my stock 85 22r. It has been subjected to towing my 6x12 enclosed and frankly does okay around town but freeway highway duty is basically full throttle in 3rd and 4th gear to maintain 57-62 mph. When subjected to this abuse it will blow through 1/2 quart to 3/4 of oil in a tank of gas. I suspect the catalytic converter is shot on obstructed with all that blown oil.
I'm 97% sure the valve seals are shot but I believe the bottom end of the engine to be reasonably sound. Coolant is gradually disappearing despite my local shop did a head gasket change few year back.
------
My local Toyota non dealer specialist "THE SHOP" recommends the following:
Pull the head and send out to shop for a valve job and replace valve seals. Cost on that valve job and seals under $200
Do a ring job on the motor and re hone the cylinders put the head back on. Cost on that would be $1200....
THE SHOP is not a fan of weber carbs and prefers to fix the factory carb.
THE SHOP is not a fan of non stock cam and says a header and less restrictive exhaust will deliver the most bang for the buck on HP gain.
From March through early November I have next to zero free time to be burning hours working on my own rigs running my lawn biz plus another business.
I’m thinking that doing a total engine swap [I can do during the winter months] and exhaust replacement might be less hassle and yield a better end result. I’d really like the repowered truck to have right around 170 -200 hp with the ability to get low to mid 20’s on fuel burn with lighter driving.
So.... is the 3RZ a reasonably straight forward hassle free swap....?
Last edited by 1985eXtraCab4x4; 11-23-2012 at 09:10 AM.
11-23-2012, 09:32 AM
#35
No.... it is not much of a straight forward swap. A donor vehicle would be the best to have so you can have all of the accessories, wiring, and whatever else you may need from it. You will likely need to fab/buy new motor mounts (may have to weld on or adapter plates to new mounts) and I'm not sure about the tranny/transfer case mount. It may have be changed/custom as well.
I have not done the swap as well, but have done a lot of reading about swaps for the 22r and the 3.4 is probably the most popular putting out the power that you want, but getting low to mid 20's may be a challenge with any motor in a truck (with the power you want) unless you are going diesel. Anyways, back to the 3.4. It is easy if you already have a 3.0 and much more difficult if you are starting with the 22r. Reason being, is because they share the same motor mounts and then the same cross member mounts as well.
Hope that helps, there is a ton of info out there on it.
I have not done the swap as well, but have done a lot of reading about swaps for the 22r and the 3.4 is probably the most popular putting out the power that you want, but getting low to mid 20's may be a challenge with any motor in a truck (with the power you want) unless you are going diesel. Anyways, back to the 3.4. It is easy if you already have a 3.0 and much more difficult if you are starting with the 22r. Reason being, is because they share the same motor mounts and then the same cross member mounts as well.
Hope that helps, there is a ton of info out there on it.
11-23-2012, 10:32 AM
#36
Registered User
Well....Burning up a ton of time on high fiddle factor fabrication footwork swap is probably not a good move. Too much focus on a project will hurt both my businesses since I'm a one man show.
Sounds like fixing my current 22r or a swap out with a rebuilt 22r is the way to go. Would like to have well above 150 hp when done.
I have been hearing that LC Engineering engines do have decent economy. Also open to other plug and play 22r engines vs trying to fix my current stock engine.
Sounds like fixing my current 22r or a swap out with a rebuilt 22r is the way to go. Would like to have well above 150 hp when done.
I have been hearing that LC Engineering engines do have decent economy. Also open to other plug and play 22r engines vs trying to fix my current stock engine.
11-23-2012, 10:50 AM
#37
Yeah, I'd either get a rebuild or buy ones and then sell your core back for even less down time. Throw a cam, header, exhaust and carb of choice on it. That's about it for cost effective upgrades. I have the 20r/22r hybrid, however have not been too happy with it. If built right I'm sure it would be a good way to go, but I picked it up on craigs for a good price and didn't build it myself and don't want to put the time or money into it since I will likely be swapping the 1UZFE (not an easy swap either).
Good luck on the engine.
Good luck on the engine.
11-23-2012, 11:28 AM
#38
Registered User
There is chance all my 22r needs is a new head gasket and valve seals possibly a cam swap and skip the piston rings and hone job and top end valve job. Then again if the head has to be pulled to do a gasket change might as well do a valve job.
I'm just wondering since the engine only has 165k since new and the high oil consumption is only under full throttle pulling a trailer.....which means to me the valve seals are highly suspect.
I think I'll proceed with a compression and leak down test at THE SHOP.
I'm just wondering since the engine only has 165k since new and the high oil consumption is only under full throttle pulling a trailer.....which means to me the valve seals are highly suspect.
I think I'll proceed with a compression and leak down test at THE SHOP.
11-23-2012, 11:33 AM
#39
Yes, definitely a leak down. I know my intake valves on 4 are a little leaky, but I don't feel like tearing it apart to fix as I'm just using the engine until I swap 
I wouldn't think it would need new rings at 165 unless it has been abused. My old 22r had 265k on the original bottom. Burned a smidge of oil, but mostly leaked out all over the front and rear of the engine. Still ran great and got about 20 mpg on average driving conditions with a stock setup.
I do have a suggestion if you got a new motor. Go 22re and do the same mods to it. It is much better IMO. More power, more efficient etc...
I wouldn't think it would need new rings at 165 unless it has been abused. My old 22r had 265k on the original bottom. Burned a smidge of oil, but mostly leaked out all over the front and rear of the engine. Still ran great and got about 20 mpg on average driving conditions with a stock setup.I do have a suggestion if you got a new motor. Go 22re and do the same mods to it. It is much better IMO. More power, more efficient etc...
