New Weber install - will not idle
09-14-2011, 03:36 PM
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New Weber install - will not idle
It just Races! Like, real fast. All adjustment screws turned all the way out, just goes like a bat outta hell and will NOT slow down.
This is on an '82 22R, Weber 32/36 DGEV, part#WK746
As far as I can tell, I have no vacuum leaks. Did not install fuel pressure regulator for stock mechanical pump, as what I could read here on Y-tech said that this was likely not necessary.
Of course, when I got it all together this evening the Weber support folks had gone home for the day. feeling stumped and bummed after shelling out for this supposedly awesome and trouble-free product.
This is on an '82 22R, Weber 32/36 DGEV, part#WK746
As far as I can tell, I have no vacuum leaks. Did not install fuel pressure regulator for stock mechanical pump, as what I could read here on Y-tech said that this was likely not necessary.
Of course, when I got it all together this evening the Weber support folks had gone home for the day. feeling stumped and bummed after shelling out for this supposedly awesome and trouble-free product.
09-14-2011, 03:46 PM
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With all the adjustment screws turned all the way out, you're probably dumping fuel in like there's no tomorrow. Did you do the Lean Best Idle Adjustment? Find the Redline Weber site and they have a PDF outlining the adjustment procedure.
09-14-2011, 03:49 PM
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09-14-2011, 03:49 PM
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well seems like you might need a pressure regulator, get one on there before you wash your cylinder walls..too much fuel pressure can blow past a carb float and force its way through jets..
09-14-2011, 05:31 PM
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Went to that Redline site, been there done all that.
Check it out: the idle speed screw is not even touching the throttle linkage, and turning the mixture screw all the way out or all the way in has NO effect. I did notice before I even installed the thing that it seemed that the primary butterfly did not close completely. At the time I thought this must be nominal, but am now beginning to wonder. Perhaps a defect? Or is this indeed normal? Never had a Weber before, and so am clueless
.
Check it out: the idle speed screw is not even touching the throttle linkage, and turning the mixture screw all the way out or all the way in has NO effect. I did notice before I even installed the thing that it seemed that the primary butterfly did not close completely. At the time I thought this must be nominal, but am now beginning to wonder. Perhaps a defect? Or is this indeed normal? Never had a Weber before, and so am clueless
.
09-14-2011, 05:51 PM
#6
From this thread:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f120...2-36-a-240521/
Other helpful links:
Subject: weber carb info
weber carb tuning:
http://www.clutchkitcenter.com/media...weber/K610.pdf
˟
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=62976.0
˟
trouble shooting guide:
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/v/vs...ng%20Guide.pdf
˟
carb adjustment guide:
http://www.cjclub.co.il/files/Weber3236adjust.pdf
˟
jetting:
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/content/view/62/32/
˟
parts diagram/exploded view:
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tec..._breakdown.htm
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/v/vs...3236DGAVEV.pdf
˟
˟
carb set up and lean best idle set up:
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tec...lean_best_.htm
˟
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f120...2-36-a-240521/
Someone please sticky this.
NOTE: This ONLY goes for the 32/36 DGV/DGEV/DGAV etc series of carburetors not the 38.
This procedure assumes no modifications have been done internally to the carburetor. Including but not limited to primary and secondary main jets, air corrector jets.
It also assumes you have no vacuum leaks ANYWHERE including the popular two-piece adapter that typically comes with the kits. I HIGHLY suggest using the Transdapt 1 piece adapter. Others have had decent results with the LCE spiral adapter as well, even though that is also a two-piece unit. Easy way to test for vacuum leaks at the adapter is to spray carb cleaner in and around the entire base of the carburetor. If a change in idle (usually a stumble) is noticed then the adapter is leaking air into the engine and needs to be fixed before any accurate tune is achieved.
Other common areas for vacuum leaks are Valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket and timing cover gaskets.
It is important to follow all linkage and lever installation instructions. The number one and two reasons for tuning errors are improper linkage installations and over tightened linkage nut, causing a binding in linkage assembly.
CALIBRATIONS MAY VARY DUE TO REGIONAL FUELS AND STATE OF ENGINE TUNE AND PERFORMANCE. POOR RUNNING QUALITY DOES NOT MEAN A DEFECT IN THE CARBURETOR. AN ADVANTAGE OF THE WEBER CARBURETOR IS ITS EASE OF ADJUSTMENT AND TUNING.
SET UP ADJUSTMENTS
Start set up by confirming carb base line settings. Do not depend on the factory delivered settings. Check them before the carb is installed.
All settings are done with choke disengaged or warmed up so that the choke is fully opened and disengaged. This is done on automatic choke carburetors by first opening the choke butterfly by hand and inserting a wood block or wedge of some kind to hold open while the linkage is cycled (linkage operated through its full movement ) to clear the choke cam. (You will hear a metallic click as the cam is released. You can check the fast Idle screw under the choke assembly to confirm that it is not in contact with the choke fast idle cam.)
Set the Idle stop screw (speed screw see fig 1) by backing out the Idle speed screw until it is not in contact with the throttle stop lever. Cycle the linkage again to be sure that the linkage comes to close without any assistance. (Checking for linkage bind) Now bring screw back into contact with the lever and continue to open or screwing in 1 turn no more than 11/2 turns.
Set the mixture screw (see Fig 1) by first screwing in until the screw stops, bottoms out.
DO NOT FORCE OR BIND AS THIS WILL CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE SCREW AND IT’S SEAT IN THE BODY OF CARBURETOR.
Back out the screw 2 full turns.
TUNING
Simple Rules for low speed calibration
If the mixture screw is more than 2 1/2 turns out turns then the Idle jet is too lean (too Small). When the mixture screw is less than 11/2 then the Idle jet is too rich (too large). These assumptions are based on the fact that the speed screw setting is not opened more than 11/2 turns. If the speed screw has to be opened 2 or more turns then this is also an indication of a lean condition usually requiring greater change. At times it may appear to be showing signs of richness or flooding it is really a lean condition. See pictures and notes in the tech 2 article supplied in the kit instructions, view and please understand the need to keep throttle plate as near to closed as possible so as not to prematurely expose the transition holes. This is what causes the visible rich condition, and confirms the need to increase the jet size.
JET KITS are available if needed.
EXAMPLE: With the speed screw set at no more than (1 1/2) turns in after contact with the stop lever; and the best idle occurring with the mixture screw set at 3 turns from bottom, indicates the need for a larger Idle jet. Achieving the best idle at under 2 turns indicates the need for a smaller idle jet.
The secret to understanding the critical nature of the carburetor set up and the advantages of a WEBER over other carburetors is the Idle circuit. Referred to as the low speed circuit by Weber, this circuit is responsible for 80% of the driving operation. This is the reason that the Weber should give a fuel economy improvement over most factory carbs along with significant performance gains. In the worst case you should not see a significant fuel economy loss over stock, while improving HP & Drivability.
The Weber Carburetor is a sequentially timed device to the motor like the distributor. Time taken in the setup will provide more fun later.
NOTE: This ONLY goes for the 32/36 DGV/DGEV/DGAV etc series of carburetors not the 38.
This procedure assumes no modifications have been done internally to the carburetor. Including but not limited to primary and secondary main jets, air corrector jets.
It also assumes you have no vacuum leaks ANYWHERE including the popular two-piece adapter that typically comes with the kits. I HIGHLY suggest using the Transdapt 1 piece adapter. Others have had decent results with the LCE spiral adapter as well, even though that is also a two-piece unit. Easy way to test for vacuum leaks at the adapter is to spray carb cleaner in and around the entire base of the carburetor. If a change in idle (usually a stumble) is noticed then the adapter is leaking air into the engine and needs to be fixed before any accurate tune is achieved.
Other common areas for vacuum leaks are Valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket and timing cover gaskets.
Carburetor Set Up and Lean Best Idle Adjustment
Base line Settings
Speed Screw 1 to 11/2 turns
Mixture Screw 2 turns
Your settings with engine runningMixture Screw 2 turns
Speed Screw ____________
Mixture Screw ___________
Mixture Screw ___________
It is important to follow all linkage and lever installation instructions. The number one and two reasons for tuning errors are improper linkage installations and over tightened linkage nut, causing a binding in linkage assembly.
CALIBRATIONS MAY VARY DUE TO REGIONAL FUELS AND STATE OF ENGINE TUNE AND PERFORMANCE. POOR RUNNING QUALITY DOES NOT MEAN A DEFECT IN THE CARBURETOR. AN ADVANTAGE OF THE WEBER CARBURETOR IS ITS EASE OF ADJUSTMENT AND TUNING.
SET UP ADJUSTMENTS
Start set up by confirming carb base line settings. Do not depend on the factory delivered settings. Check them before the carb is installed.
All settings are done with choke disengaged or warmed up so that the choke is fully opened and disengaged. This is done on automatic choke carburetors by first opening the choke butterfly by hand and inserting a wood block or wedge of some kind to hold open while the linkage is cycled (linkage operated through its full movement ) to clear the choke cam. (You will hear a metallic click as the cam is released. You can check the fast Idle screw under the choke assembly to confirm that it is not in contact with the choke fast idle cam.)
Set the Idle stop screw (speed screw see fig 1) by backing out the Idle speed screw until it is not in contact with the throttle stop lever. Cycle the linkage again to be sure that the linkage comes to close without any assistance. (Checking for linkage bind) Now bring screw back into contact with the lever and continue to open or screwing in 1 turn no more than 11/2 turns.
Set the mixture screw (see Fig 1) by first screwing in until the screw stops, bottoms out.
DO NOT FORCE OR BIND AS THIS WILL CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE SCREW AND IT’S SEAT IN THE BODY OF CARBURETOR.
Back out the screw 2 full turns.
TUNING
- BE SURE TO FOLLOW THE NEXT INSTRUCTIONS IN THE PROPER SEQUENCE, DEVIATION WILL CAUSE THE CARBURETOR TO NOT FUNCTION TO ITS IDEAL SPECIFICATIONS AND MAY NOT PROVIDE THE PERFORMANCE AND FUEL ECONOMY AS DESIGNED.
- Start the engine, the engine will run very slowly more like a tractor. As long as the engine stays running idle speed is not important at this point.
- The first thing to do is not set up the idle speed, but to set the Idle mixture screw to lean best idle setting. First, turn in the mixture screw until the engine dies or runs worse, then back out the screw (recommend turning ¼ to ½ turn at a time). The engine should pick up speed and begin to smooth out. Back out ½ turn more, or until the screw does nothing or runs worse then turn back to the point where it ran its best.
- Use your ear, not a scope or tuning instruments at this point. You want to tune the engine by sound. Adjust to best, fastest and smoothest running point.
- Now that the mixture screw is at its best running location, you can adjust the Idle speed the screw. The screw will be sensitive and should only take ¼ to ½ turns to achieve the idle speed you like.
- Check and set idle to your driving preference. Put the car in gear and apply slight load, (AC on) and set the Idle as you like it. Don’t set it too high, as this will cause causes excessive clutch and brake wear. The Idle only needs to be 7 to 900 RPM with light load or AC on.
- Recheck timing and vacuum hook ups. Recheck mixture screw to lean best idle again. If all is still best and smoothest idle then confirm and note the final settings.
- To confirm settings with the engine running. Start by screwing in the mixture screw and count the number of turns it takes to bottom out and note if the engine dies. If Idle Mixture screws are with in ½ turn of base line setting then all is well and have fun. Also check the speed screw and note how many total turns from initial contact. You may have opened (turned in) the speed screw. Your final setting should be under 2 full turns. Reset the screws (back in) to the best final settings (Per your notes) and go on a test drive and have fun. If the settings are other than described then you may want to recalibrate the Idle circuit (low speed circuit) to your engines needs. This is done by following the rule of thumb BELOW.
Simple Rules for low speed calibration
If the mixture screw is more than 2 1/2 turns out turns then the Idle jet is too lean (too Small). When the mixture screw is less than 11/2 then the Idle jet is too rich (too large). These assumptions are based on the fact that the speed screw setting is not opened more than 11/2 turns. If the speed screw has to be opened 2 or more turns then this is also an indication of a lean condition usually requiring greater change. At times it may appear to be showing signs of richness or flooding it is really a lean condition. See pictures and notes in the tech 2 article supplied in the kit instructions, view and please understand the need to keep throttle plate as near to closed as possible so as not to prematurely expose the transition holes. This is what causes the visible rich condition, and confirms the need to increase the jet size.
JET KITS are available if needed.
EXAMPLE: With the speed screw set at no more than (1 1/2) turns in after contact with the stop lever; and the best idle occurring with the mixture screw set at 3 turns from bottom, indicates the need for a larger Idle jet. Achieving the best idle at under 2 turns indicates the need for a smaller idle jet.
The secret to understanding the critical nature of the carburetor set up and the advantages of a WEBER over other carburetors is the Idle circuit. Referred to as the low speed circuit by Weber, this circuit is responsible for 80% of the driving operation. This is the reason that the Weber should give a fuel economy improvement over most factory carbs along with significant performance gains. In the worst case you should not see a significant fuel economy loss over stock, while improving HP & Drivability.
The Weber Carburetor is a sequentially timed device to the motor like the distributor. Time taken in the setup will provide more fun later.
Subject: weber carb info
weber carb tuning:
http://www.clutchkitcenter.com/media...weber/K610.pdf
˟
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=62976.0
˟
trouble shooting guide:
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/v/vs...ng%20Guide.pdf
˟
carb adjustment guide:
http://www.cjclub.co.il/files/Weber3236adjust.pdf
˟
jetting:
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/content/view/62/32/
˟
parts diagram/exploded view:
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tec..._breakdown.htm
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/v/vs...3236DGAVEV.pdf
˟
˟
carb set up and lean best idle set up:
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tec...lean_best_.htm
˟
09-14-2011, 06:31 PM
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i didn't read all of ocdropzone's links but theres alot of great information there. he saved you alot of the leg work.
but check all of your linkage for binding and the cable adjustment. when i installed my 32/36 there was a small tab on the firewall side of the carb linkage that was barely dragging against the adapter plate. also be sure to not overtighten the shaft linkage nut when you install the toyota linkage piece from your old carb onto the weber.
but check all of your linkage for binding and the cable adjustment. when i installed my 32/36 there was a small tab on the firewall side of the carb linkage that was barely dragging against the adapter plate. also be sure to not overtighten the shaft linkage nut when you install the toyota linkage piece from your old carb onto the weber.
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09-15-2011, 04:00 AM
#8
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So many details it's hard to tell 'em all: Yes, I had the tab dragging on the adapter plate. I bent it out of the way before I even started it up the first time. There is actual slack in the throttle cable. And no, I did not over tighten the throttle shaft nut - the shaft turns freely and easily, coming to a hard, clean stop at whatever is limiting it's range of motion.
After having slept on it, this feels like more and more of a linkage issue, wherein the throttle is not closing completely for some unknown, ungodly reason. Yes, I tripped the fast idle by pushing the choke open. Guess I'm gonna have to take the think off again and examine it minutely.
I'm beginning to wonder if these things are made in china, or some other asian country that is not Japan.
After having slept on it, this feels like more and more of a linkage issue, wherein the throttle is not closing completely for some unknown, ungodly reason. Yes, I tripped the fast idle by pushing the choke open. Guess I'm gonna have to take the think off again and examine it minutely.
I'm beginning to wonder if these things are made in china, or some other asian country that is not Japan.
Last edited by Taoyota; 09-15-2011 at 04:06 AM.
09-15-2011, 06:15 AM
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Carb from "Weber Direct" sold with wrong linkage parts
Yup, so I found out why the thing was racing. Apparently, the linkage piece for the secondary is the wrong one. The slotted part is WAY not long enuf to allow the primary to close fully, end of story.
I noticed that nowhere on this carburetor is the country of origin stamped. Hmm... manufactured in China, assembled in Mexico? anybody's guess.
Anyone else out there encounter this issue?
I noticed that nowhere on this carburetor is the country of origin stamped. Hmm... manufactured in China, assembled in Mexico? anybody's guess.
Anyone else out there encounter this issue?
09-15-2011, 09:49 AM
#10
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well i have some dual webers on my vw squareback type lll and apparently they are crap. made from china. i guess weber sold out to some chinese company about 5 or 6 years ago from what i heard at the vw shop here in town. i LOVE my weber for my 22r so hang in there once its tuned in they ROCK! that being said you may have a chinese one. which should still work great for your truck. i always have issues with my linkage too so what i do it put a big return spring on the linkage to make SURE it goes back to the correct idle position.(you can get this at any auto parts store for about 5 bucks or less) you might have to bend the ends of the spring where it clips onto your linkage or any metal what works for your need to make it not bind up. its hard to explain but get a return spring, maybe yours isnt there or isnt strong enough to fight that linkage bind! it works for me!
09-15-2011, 10:00 AM
#11
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that is a problem. get the right parts and i bet you will love it. so it may have been made in china, or mexico, as long as the parts are all there(which apparently they arent) then it should work fine. i love the chinese crap discussions. who cares it mixes air and gas so it should work. lol. let us know when you get it working, and definately DEFINATELY use the lean best idle adjustment from webers site. i printed it out and its under my seat for future reference. works over and over so you will probably be good once you get the right part.
is weber sending it free or charge or whats up?
is weber sending it free or charge or whats up?
09-15-2011, 12:23 PM
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OK - so I finally got through to the Weber Direct troubleshooter guy, and it turns out it was my bad - I had tightened the throttle linkage nut so much that the linkage to the secondary was all bound up and moving along with everything else, as it should NOT do
. Upon loosening the nut, bam! The primary snaps back to where it should be.
Duh.
. Upon loosening the nut, bam! The primary snaps back to where it should be.Duh.
09-15-2011, 12:24 PM
#13
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I have never delt with a company that is harder to get on the phone than weber carbs direct. Both the sales and warranty/tech departments. What is up with that?
09-15-2011, 04:54 PM
#14
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I've had no issues with webercarbsdirect, that's where I got mine from. But then again when ya got my phone number to help troubleshoot a weber, ya don't need to call WCD haha. Anyway, what was meant by linkage is wrong for the secondary or do you mean linkage is wrong for the throttle? Some photos will help.
09-15-2011, 05:23 PM
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xtreme, it all came out good in the wash. Turns out there was no problem with the parts, just the installer (me). It's runnin' pretty ok now, a little rough. Maybe time to replace the 300,000+ mile distributor.
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