catfish21

iTrader: (1)

Hello all and I just have a few questions and want to see what you guys suggest. But anywayi am fixing to do the much needed head gasket and complet timing job, I'm doing it right by the books head gasket oil pan gasket intake and every other thing associated with this job. Well my question is is when I do get the head off and have it where I can work on it obviously I'm going to clean everything very good with solvent and brush and.change valve seals but should I go ahead and buy new valves, retainers, springs, and rockers and if I did it would be all from the dealer ship and I'm also gonna but a new cam in it while I'm there. So is this necessary to buy all new valves and stuff or will I be wasting money or damaging something thanks

slacker

iTrader: (1)

tough question !
do you have an OE manual ? check specks ..

I always send my heads out to my machine shop guy .. and let him check them out , he's the pro . and has the "tools " to do it correctly


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catfish21

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I have a factory manual for my year and I don't have the tools to measure all the clearances and things but I just was gonna see what Yall thought about changing it all why I was there or what. And another thing what all gaskets do I need to do this I just want to have everything.ready to get this done, this is what I have head gasket, intake manifold gasket, exhaust gasket, distributor o ring, fuel pump spacer and gasket, and I don't have any smog stuff it is all blocked off but if there is any thing I'm missing please let me know, I just think I'm missing a small gasket or something and need.this done over the weekend

83

Well what you just mentioned covers the headgasket job...except for valve cover gasket and half-moon gaskets, if you haven't replaced them lately.

But if you're doing the timing chain, too, then add water pump and oil pump gaskets, timing cover gaskets, and really the oil and water pump, too. Might as well. Along with the oil pan gasket.

There's also a metal gasket between the exhaust manifold and start of the tailpipe that you could replace.

And some FIPG or RTV for the special places on the head.

And some thread sealant for the special bolt on the oil pump.

aztoyman

It is usually more than taking it apart, cleaning everything and installing a new head gasket. If your head is warped and/or the block deck not perfectly flat, you will be doing this all over again.

You really need to get the head to a machine shop for inspection and a repair estimate. Buy a new head if the repairs exceed the cost of new.

Put a straightedge on the block deck after you get it clean and see if it is in spec. If not the new head gasket will most likely fail prematurely.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

I would definitely recommend replacing the valve seals while you have the head off - pretty simple task if you have a valve spring compressor. However, you can't just simply replace the valves - the valve seats are cut and lapped to match the new valves and then they wear together. If you put new valves on old valve seats then you run the risk of the valves not sealing properly which in turn will cause loss of compression among several other issues.

If you want new valves, I would highly recommend buying new valve seats and having a reputable machine shop cut the seats to match the valves. My machine shop charged me $250 to cut my valve seats, remove, install new valve guides and deck the block, exhaust and intake mating surfaces. When I got it back, I port and polished the chamber, exhaust and intake.

I would check your old cam before you buy a new camshaft (unless you just want a performance cam). If you do get a new camshaft, it is recommended that your replace your rockers. You'll also need some feeler gauges to set your valve lash. Just go step by step through the FSM and you'll be ok.

While you have everything a part, you might as well get a new water pump and oil pump. Go see Engnbldr for all the parts you need - he also has a complete gasket kit that will have all the gaskets you will need and then some. It would probably save you some money too and you'll definitely get some quality gaskets.

I think I just more than doubled your budget on this project! I remember about a year ago when I popped the head off my engine to replace some bad valve seals... that quickly turned into a full blown rebuild which turned into a full restoration that I'm already more than $10K into!

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

oh, and get some new head bolts too. The old ones are usually pretty well gone and you'll most likely need to chase the threads in the block too

RobotMoose

iTrader: (1)

I couldn't agree with this idea more. A good machinist can deal with valves and springs and cams with little trouble, and have the tools to make sure the mating surfaces of the head are properly trued.

catfish21

iTrader: (1)

Ok well I thank Yall for the input here yeah I have a complete timing lit from doa and water and oil pump from Toyota and all the othe gaskets I bought came from Toyota so I guess the.best thing for.me.to do is.just clean every thing up real good and if I see something out of ordinary in my.head I'll replace then if need be I just want to do everything I can for my little engine to bring it back to life and make.me.feel a lot better about things. So the cam that I got from engine builder it's just a mild cam for low end torque you say I need to replace.the rockers and is this just stock rockers I need to purchase

catfish21

iTrader: (1)

And yes I will have my head machined at the shop before everything bolts up I have a guy that's gonna do it Saturday for me, as for the block I guess I'm gonna take my.chances on that one

83

I didn't worry about my block when I did my headgasket. It's the aluminum you've got to worry about.

I would have your machine shop guy check out your exhaust manifold studs and bolt holes. Chances are they need attention.

20R or 22R? Because Ted himself told me there is no source for new 20R heads, anwhere. So if you've got a 20R, you're out of luck if you want a new head. You'd have to service yours, or find another used one, hopefully in better condition than yours.

catfish21

iTrader: (1)

No mines a 22r with the stock duel row chain, I'm gonna put the cam in it or have the shop do it but should it be a bad thing to leave the old rockers or should I for sure get new ones and is it just stock rockers that I need. If everything looks good with the head I'll just replace the valve seals, and 83 when I put my Doug thorley headers on I replaces all my studs and believe it or not they were in damn good shape they came out no problem and the new ones from Toyota went right in

83

Lucky you!

I've only worked on two of these trucks, and both had stripped exhaust manifold studs. Not a large sample...but 100% for me! So I just expect it.

catfish21

iTrader: (1)

I hear ya man well I havnt been so lucky on some of the other things I've worked on with this ol truck

EFI85

why not just say screw it and put the brand new engbldr head on it and call it done . for $350 it just seems like an easy decision .

catfish21

iTrader: (1)

It would be an easy decision if they made the head I need but they only rebuild heads for the 85-95 22r I have the old school 22r with the high deck and things like that

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

I rebuilt a 1982 22R for a friend of mine - He had a cracked head so he ended up buying a head from www.panstonemotor.com through eBay for about $350 with no core charge. It's was fully rebuilt with new springs, valves, valve seats and valve seals. When he got it, I went ahead and broke down the head to make sure all the machine work was properly done and I was very satisfied with the work - seats were properly cut and lapped with the valves, guides were straight, mating surfaces were decked flat and all the threads were chased clean. If you are considering doing a complete valve job you'll be looking at at least $160 for springs, valves, guides, seats and seals plus at least $200 for the machine work. Plus some machine shops aren't exactly quick to get a job done. So you might be better off just getting the rebuilt head to save you some time and money. Here's the link on eBay for the head:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/81-84-Toyota...7dcbdc&vxp=mtr

I typically don't trust eBay sellers with things like this unless I know the seller (like engnbldr), but my friend has put well over 20,000 miles on the motor with no problems.

Pri$erulz

How many miles does the engine have on it? There are other things to replace or you might as well when doing the timing service. From what I am noticing you are rebuilding the engine shy of removing the pistons/rings and replacing bearings. I recently bought an '81 and am doing the same service on my 22r and '83 has been helping me out with some of it. Good luck doing this service in a weekend unless you are very experienced or have a solid 48 hours to devote. You will run into other issues that need to be fixed.

For my head gasket I went to Toyota and they had an option for a head gasket/engine overhaul kit for $217 that includes every gasket you will come across doing the service from the manual except the spark plug seals and the half moons; even the valve covers and rear main seal. I haven't gotten to removing the manifolds yet to see the condition of the threading but will be there shortly (two full time jobs).

It may not be prudent to buy a couple feet of various vacuum and fuel line tubing to replace those as you are handling them. There is also a third coolant hose you will find coming off the water pump into the block, replace it - you don't want to skip it and be stranded and/or have to remove everything again to change it. Another suggestions is cardboard cut outs mimicking bolt patterns of the parts being removed to put nuts and bolts on. Also a roll of masking tape and a sharpie to label the hoses, tubes, and miscellaneous bolts will significantly help.

83

Yeah pay very close attention to where each bolt for the timing chain cover goes. It matters. Even with the oil pump, there are one or two bolts that are longer than the others, and they have to go back in the same place.

Since I replaced my oil & water pumps, I just loosened each bolt enough that it wasn't threaded any more but wasn't out. When I took the pumps out I kept the bolts through the holes, so I'd know where they went in the new pumps.

Can't really do that with your timng cover if you aren't replacing it, though...so the cardboard cutout is a good idea.

What are you meaning to say when you say spark plug seals?

Yeah, on all my trucks, I've started getting in the habit of replacing all the vacuum line and rubber fuel line at some point not too long after I buy them.

Pri$erulz

83.

I butcher it every time but I have the receipt in front of me. Haha. I ordered a gasket kit, semicircular plugs (half moons), and seal washers that have something to do with spark plugs that the gasket kit didn't come with.