Man Charged w/ 3rd Degree Felony for "Stealing WiFi"

bamachem · 07-06-2005, 06:33 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050707/...ts_wi_fi_theft

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - Police have arrested a man for using someone else's wireless Internet network in one of the first criminal cases involving this fairly common practice.

Benjamin Smith III, 41, faces a pretrial hearing this month following his April arrest on charges of unauthorized access to a computer network, a third-degree felony.

Police say Smith admitted using the Wi-Fi signal from the home of Richard Dinon, who had noticed Smith sitting in an SUV outside Dinon's house using a laptop computer.

The practice is so new that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement doesn't even keep statistics, according to the St. Petersburg Times, which reported Smith's arrest this week.

Innocuous use of other people's unsecured Wi-Fi networks is common, though experts say that plenty of illegal use also goes undetected: such as people sneaking on others' networks to traffic in child pornography, steal credit card information and send death threats.

Security experts say people can prevent such access by turning on encryption or requiring passwords, but few bother or are unsure how to do so.

Wi-Fi, short for Wireless Fidelity, has enjoyed prolific growth since 2000. Millions of households have set up wireless home networks that give people like Dinon the ability to use the Web from their backyards but also reach the house next door or down the street.

It's not clear why Smith was using Dinon's network. Prosecutors declined to comment, and a working phone number could not be located for Smith.

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NCSU-4runner · 07-06-2005, 07:04 PM

doh !

when i moved to my new townhome community i could get a signal from almost 20 wireless routers, almost half of which were unlocked. . .

i pay for my own anyway b/c i get to split the bill 3 ways, if i had to pay the whole $50/month myself i might consider logging on someone elses, id like to see what happens in this case.

2ToyGuy · 07-07-2005, 08:14 AM

I hope they nail his butt. Stealing is stealing, whether it's a dress from the store or wi-fi service. I paid for the stuff to set up my net, and I pay every month for my internet connection. What makes this nimrod think he has the right to come in and steal this stuff from me? I have as much security in place as I possibly can, and since I live out in the middle of nowhere, I don't worry too much anyway, but jerk-offs like him burn my ass. There's no difference between what he did, and his walking into someone's home and taking their property. Which is why I have a bunch of guns in the house. Saved my stuff and butt several times now.

Shoot the bugger...

964runner · 07-07-2005, 08:33 AM

If wi-fi want people to quit stealing they need to improve the technology and lock every signal or something, I DONT blame the guy at all

Churnd · 07-07-2005, 08:46 AM

Poor guy. Always sucks to be the first one caught. Then again, he might become a celebrity for it.

**waskillywabbit** · 07-07-2005, 09:14 AM

ITYS!!!

gwhayduke · 07-07-2005, 07:54 PM

I'm not sure it'll stick. Seems like I remember something like this coming up with radar detectors and some high court ruled that it was not illegal to receive broadcast signals since they were literally "broadcast" and open to the public. A few eastern states made the detectors illegal, but couldn't make it illegal to receive the signals.

Now if it was a protected network, they might get him for breaking into it.

jimbo74 · 07-07-2005, 08:17 PM

serves him right....... funny how half the people here justified it and said it wasnt stealing recently......

2ToyGuy · 07-07-2005, 10:55 PM

Quote:

If wi-fi want people to quit stealing they need to improve the technology and lock every signal or something, I DONT blame the guy at all

So if stores want people to stop stealing it's on them to improve their security? If people don't want their houses broken into and their possesions stolen it's not the criminal, don't blame them! It's the peoples' fault for not having enough security in place, right?
What a bunch of crap. If someone stole some stuff from you and then said "But your door was unlocked. It's not MY fault, it's YOURS!" What would you say?

To say that it's the victim's fault for being stolen from because they didn't have enough security in place is pure, criminal-minded, liberal BULLS**T!!!!

I cannot believe any rational human being could possibly try and blame the victim for being stolen from, raped, murdered, whatever, but it happens in courtrooms around the country every day. And it makes me naseous.

However: It does in fact seem to be a favorite (and sadly, often sucessfull) defense. SO, I make sure I DO have the means at hand to stop someone from stealing from me, etc. Whether it's the most possible security I can build into my computer systems, or a real good quality handgun to wear around town. Either way, I'm fairly well protected. Not 100%, that's almost impossible as long as one desires to interact with others, but as best I can be.

I hope someone breaks into YOUR house, 964Runner, and then blames you for not having enough security in place to stop him from taking that which you've worked hard to make the money for. Might change your perspective a bit. I doubt it, but it's possible. I don't know you, only what you said here.

I DO blame the guy, and I hope they throw the book at him. Max jail time, max fines. He ttook from another without their permission, now take from him. Time from his life, and money from his pocket.

/endrant/

EWAYota · 07-07-2005, 11:11 PM

i understand what your saying about going into someones house and stealing that......but its also a totally different scenerio really. your belongings in the house are not floating around outside thru the air. i can use my neighbors connection from my house. im in my house, never went into his......and for about a week i didn't know i was using his and not mine till my connection got slow. so i checked my connection and noticed i wasn't using mine, but someone elses. went next door, let him know and he secured it. but the fact could be said, how is it stealing if i never left my house to use it, or i wasn't in his or on his property? not saying that its right. if the internet is needed that bad by you and you cant afford to pay the bill, go to the library. its free. like mentioned earlier, it'll be intresting to see how this pans out. hopefully he'll be guilty, set an example and maybe people will start to secure they're networks like they should be in the first place.

bob200587 · 07-07-2005, 11:23 PM

that sucks, there should be more places to get wifi, i like the way some resturants are having free internet. Imo i would like to be able to get free internet away from home. I hate that you have to pay for internet anyways. I want to be my own damn ISP!!!

4-RUNNIN' FREAK · 07-08-2005, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimabena74

serves him right....... funny how half the people here justified it and said it wasnt stealing recently......

Thinking the same thing. Maybe cross link the post.

2ToyGuy · 07-08-2005, 05:22 AM

Quote:

......but its also a totally different scenerio

Not, it's not, it's exactly the same...

Quote:

your belongings in the house are not floating around outside thru the air.

Nope, but when you go to the store, your car is in a public area. Does that make it right to take it? It's just floating around out there, after all. Forgot to lock you door? I guess that validates the theft even more. After all, you didn't set your security on, so it's ok to take it, right?

Quote:

or i wasn't in his or on his property?

Yes, actually you were. The second you started connecting through his connection, you were in his equipment. Your data was travelling through his equipment to access the internet, and remained on his physical property for a finite, measurable length of time, no matter how short. The equipment he purchased, not you, the internet connection he was payning for, not you. Where's the difference in using his equipment to go to Dallas, for example, on the net as using his car, parked out on a public street but unlocked, to go to the same place? Or using his mailbox to receive and send your mail? That's what you were doing, after all...Would you want someone watching your lovely new widescreen, HD TV set through your window from out in the street? It's just floating around out there, after all. Or how about someone using your boat? Same argument. I'm not saying you did this on purpose or maliciously, and apologise if I came across that way. I feel pretty strongly about this though, if you hadn't noticed.

No, I say stealing is stealing, and should be treated accordingly. Just because someone didn't lock their car, or wireless router, is NOT an invitation for the world to come by and use it without permission. Lack of security precautions is NOT an excuse for theft, under ANY circumstances. There's no posssible justification for theft for any reason. An no, I'm not going to get into a long discussion about situatioanl ethics. I know the world isn' black and white; it's all shades of gray, but even so, I feel this whole situation is fairly cut and dried. The man's equipment was used without his permission, by someone who KNEW he was doing wrong. That's theft.

PirateFins · 07-08-2005, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waskillywabbit

ITYS!!!

YUP!!

4RUNR · 07-08-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ToyGuy

Would you want someone watching your lovely new widescreen, HD TV set through your window from out in the street? It's just floating around out there, after all. Or how about someone using your boat? Same argument.

Would you charge someone watching your TV with a felony too? Or just shoot them on the spot with your extensive gun collection?

2ToyGuy · 07-08-2005, 06:38 PM

Depends entirely on them. I could close my curtains, I could call the police (yeah, right!), I could go out and politely ASK them to stop...any number of things I could do. If they threatened me or my property or family with direct harm or removal of any kind of my property from my control, then yes, the "extensive" gun collection would come into play. That's why I have it.

I was just trying to think of examples of your property "just floating around out there" that another could utilize without your permission. Obviously not the greatest, but I was both tired and upset by the whole affair, and apparently not thinking perfectly. Just one of my many foibles.

BUT: I don't take other's property or sevices without permission. I don't steal things. There's a lot of thigns I don't do. Because it's wrong to do them, not necessarily because there's a law against it or not. I have a very strong moral code and adhere to it as strictly as I can. Stupidly, I think others should too...

4RUNR · 07-08-2005, 07:21 PM

Well, here is a better analogy than the “taking of the boat”.

Say you own a large lot of land in a forest. You do not post any "Private property! No hunting or camping!" signs anywhere.

Now a group of campers is hiking through the woods, as they have done numerous times before, and they do know that the land they are walking on belongs to someone. They also know that most land owners in that area do not mind hikers, and indeed most land owners don't mind hikers setting up tents and even burning a few fallen branches in a campfire. The campers know that if the owners did not want them camping there they would have put up signs.

But there are no signs, and since they know that most owners don’t mind they set up camp.

Is this scenario different from wireless?
Wireless that is not protected is just as easy to connect to as walking into unmarked private property in the woods. Most computers even by default prefer to connect to unprotected networks.
There is also precedence with many open wireless network owners welcoming the public. Most anywhere you go in a large city you will find networks where it is perfectly legal to connect.

How is one to know which wireless network is welcome and which one is not? Locking a wireless network with a password is the 21st century “No Trespassing!” sign, and it is unambiguous in its meaning.

bob200587 · 07-08-2005, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4RUNR

Well, here is a better analogy than the “taking of the boat”.

Wireless that is not protected is just as easy to connect to as walking into unmarked private property in the woods. Most computers even by default prefer to connect to unprotected networks.
There is also precedence with many open wireless network owners welcoming the public. Most anywhere you go in a large city you will find networks where it is perfectly legal to connect.

How is one to know which wireless network is welcome and which one is not? Locking a wireless network with a password is the 21st century “No Trespassing!” sign, and it is unambiguous in its meaning.

Amen to that

2ToyGuy · 07-08-2005, 09:15 PM

Same thing. They're stealing the use of this person's land. Just because they are doing it through ignorance is no excuse. Once again, you seem to have a "blame the victim" mentality. He didn't post a sign, so it's his fault they're camped illegally on his land without his permission. He didn't put in security, so it's his fault his equipment and service was used illgally without his permission. He didn't lock his car door, so it's his fault that it was stolen and used illegally and without his permission.
Just because the campers can't be bothered with knowing where they are and the ownership of the land they tread is no excuse. That's like someone saying "No one ever told me it was illgal to steal cable!". They get charged just the same. Or setting up a Tesla coil under a power line to tap the power. It's just floating around out there, after all.

Once again, stealing is stealing, and now the excuse is ignorance, which is no excuse at all.

jimbo74 · 07-08-2005, 09:43 PM

Dublin · 07-09-2005, 12:11 PM

Not condoning or condeming, I just like analogies on stealing. A bee keepers bees leave the hive go to neighboring propertys aquire pollen from plants that don't belong to the bee keeper. The beeker profits from the honey. A property owner has a dusk to dawn light and pays the electric bill, but the light is bright enough that the nieghbor does not have to turn on his outside light to do a few things in his yard thus saving electricy. The people across the way light off fireworks that they payed for and the neighborhood watches. These are just a few things we are all aware of, is it theft? Possibly, possibly not.

CynicX · 07-09-2005, 07:01 PM

before we get back into this whole stealing thing...remember the news editors of that article gave it the "stealing" title...he was arrested for a 3rd degree felony....which can include theft but by defination is a severe crime....

so before we go back into this...he is NOT being arrested for stealing...he is charged with the a 3rd degree felony....The person that wrote the article made the title...

I can gaurentee he wont get charged with "theft". More likely a generic computer crime.

BT17R · 07-14-2005, 05:41 PM

I believe he should be held accountable too. But for a felony? Pretty harsh potential penalty of up to 5 years and/or $5,000 fine. I don't think it rises to the level of the better known Florida felonies like:

a. Treason;
b. Murder;
c. Manslaughter;
d. Sexual battery;
e. Carjacking;
f. Home-invasion robbery;
g. Robbery;
h. Arson;
i. Kidnapping;
j. Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon;
k. Aggravated battery;
l. Aggravated stalking;
m. Aircraft piracy;
n. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb;
o. Any felony that involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against an individual;
p. Armed burglary;
q. Burglary of an occupied structure or dwelling

If the judge has discretion, I don't think he should do time, but this is Florida so an elected prosecutor may be campaigning on a law and order platform. Maybe the perp can make a large campaign contribution and walk.

4RocRunner92 · 07-14-2005, 05:44 PM

I remember someone had a thread on this...on whether to do it or not. Haha, forgot the user but I guess you got some cold hard facts to think about now.

Intrepid · 07-14-2005, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimabena74

serves him right....... funny how half the people here justified it and said it wasnt stealing recently......

I beleive the general consensus was that it was wrong, but we may do it anyway.

07-06-2005, 07:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
NCSU-4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Raleigh NC Posts: 1,597	doh ! when i moved to my new townhome community i could get a signal from almost 20 wireless routers, almost half of which were unlocked. . . i pay for my own anyway b/c i get to split the bill 3 ways, if i had to pay the whole $50/month myself i might consider logging on someone elses, id like to see what happens in this case. __________________ Jeremy, 94 4Runner Turbo Leaf Spring SAS front - Coilover 4link rear (starts December) / Supra Swap My Truck is featured on Supracharged.com - Home of the original Supra swap and Forum One of two things will happen, I will die, or the truck will be finished. I'm not sure which will be first.

07-07-2005, 08:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
2ToyGuy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Yuma, Az Posts: 389	I hope they nail his butt. Stealing is stealing, whether it's a dress from the store or wi-fi service. I paid for the stuff to set up my net, and I pay every month for my internet connection. What makes this nimrod think he has the right to come in and steal this stuff from me? I have as much security in place as I possibly can, and since I live out in the middle of nowhere, I don't worry too much anyway, but jerk-offs like him burn my ass. There's no difference between what he did, and his walking into someone's home and taking their property. Which is why I have a bunch of guns in the house. Saved my stuff and butt several times now. Shoot the bugger... __________________ "Well, that didn't work!" - Baron Manfred von Richtofen, during the latter portion of his last flight '87 4Runner, 22RE, pretty much stock, on it's 3rd head now, 146 k miles '87 2WD P/U, 22R, stock everything, mostly factory everything too, 286 k miles, beater truck. 10 year US Marine and proud of it. One of my daughters is an active duty Marine, another is Navy!

07-07-2005, 08:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
964runner Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Castro Valley, CA Posts: 340	If wi-fi want people to quit stealing they need to improve the technology and lock every signal or something, I DONT blame the guy at all __________________ -Yusef

07-07-2005, 08:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
Churnd Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 4,093	Poor guy. Always sucks to be the first one caught. Then again, he might become a celebrity for it. __________________ -Chris If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Click here to search! My Website

07-07-2005, 09:14 AM	#6 (permalink)
waskillywabbit Super Moderator-Sponsoring Member Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 14,546	ITYS!!! __________________ WabFab Off-Road, LLC MySpace Twitter Facebook 7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010 The toughest part of a Jeep is the chick driving it. WabFab Off-Road 4th Anniversary Sale

07-07-2005, 07:54 PM	#7 (permalink)
gwhayduke Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,576	I'm not sure it'll stick. Seems like I remember something like this coming up with radar detectors and some high court ruled that it was not illegal to receive broadcast signals since they were literally "broadcast" and open to the public. A few eastern states made the detectors illegal, but couldn't make it illegal to receive the signals. Now if it was a protected network, they might get him for breaking into it. __________________ '99 4Runner SR5 4WD, 5-SPEED. Abzug's vehicle for urban expeditions, navigating flash floods and debris flows (try 12-15 inches of rain in one week). It always gets her home. '95 4Runner LIMITED 4WD, 5-SPEED, over a quarter million on the original 3vze & headgaskets. TRD heavy duty clutch, TRD heavy duty flywheel, OME 900 springs and shocks. This old gal has gotten me out into the field, and back for 8 years, never failed to start or gotten stuck.

07-07-2005, 08:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
jimbo74 Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Nor*Cal Posts: 6,582	serves him right....... funny how half the people here justified it and said it wasnt stealing recently......

07-07-2005, 11:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
EWAYota Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Richland, Washington Posts: 4,596	i understand what your saying about going into someones house and stealing that......but its also a totally different scenerio really. your belongings in the house are not floating around outside thru the air. i can use my neighbors connection from my house. im in my house, never went into his......and for about a week i didn't know i was using his and not mine till my connection got slow. so i checked my connection and noticed i wasn't using mine, but someone elses. went next door, let him know and he secured it. but the fact could be said, how is it stealing if i never left my house to use it, or i wasn't in his or on his property? not saying that its right. if the internet is needed that bad by you and you cant afford to pay the bill, go to the library. its free. like mentioned earlier, it'll be intresting to see how this pans out. hopefully he'll be guilty, set an example and maybe people will start to secure they're networks like they should be in the first place. __________________ DJ 1994 Pickup 22RE, Engnbldr 261 cam, 5 speed. Tires that go around and around... Preping for SAS...... Originally Posted By Fustercluck "Proof that Gangus did not spontaneously generate....he has relatives." Originally Posted By Tacoclimber "My two year old better get a job, soon..." Reply Posted By Oly884 "I hear coal mining is a great career." Myspace

07-07-2005, 11:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
bob200587 Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,853	that sucks, there should be more places to get wifi, i like the way some resturants are having free internet. Imo i would like to be able to get free internet away from home. I hate that you have to pay for internet anyways. I want to be my own damn ISP!!! __________________ 87 4runner 4x4 SR5 22RE ARB Bull Bar, 31X10.50 Mastercraft M/T's, Stock 4.10 Gears, Flowmaster Muffler, LCE Header AISIN Manual Hubs, Marlin Crawler Sliders 190XXX miles

07-08-2005, 06:38 PM	#16 (permalink)
2ToyGuy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Yuma, Az Posts: 389	Depends entirely on them. I could close my curtains, I could call the police (yeah, right!), I could go out and politely ASK them to stop...any number of things I could do. If they threatened me or my property or family with direct harm or removal of any kind of my property from my control, then yes, the "extensive" gun collection would come into play. That's why I have it. I was just trying to think of examples of your property "just floating around out there" that another could utilize without your permission. Obviously not the greatest, but I was both tired and upset by the whole affair, and apparently not thinking perfectly. Just one of my many foibles. BUT: I don't take other's property or sevices without permission. I don't steal things. There's a lot of thigns I don't do. Because it's wrong to do them, not necessarily because there's a law against it or not. I have a very strong moral code and adhere to it as strictly as I can. Stupidly, I think others should too... __________________ "Well, that didn't work!" - Baron Manfred von Richtofen, during the latter portion of his last flight '87 4Runner, 22RE, pretty much stock, on it's 3rd head now, 146 k miles '87 2WD P/U, 22R, stock everything, mostly factory everything too, 286 k miles, beater truck. 10 year US Marine and proud of it. One of my daughters is an active duty Marine, another is Navy!

07-08-2005, 07:21 PM	#17 (permalink)
4RUNR Guest Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Pole Posts: 1,619	Well, here is a better analogy than the “taking of the boat”. Say you own a large lot of land in a forest. You do not post any "Private property! No hunting or camping!" signs anywhere. Now a group of campers is hiking through the woods, as they have done numerous times before, and they do know that the land they are walking on belongs to someone. They also know that most land owners in that area do not mind hikers, and indeed most land owners don't mind hikers setting up tents and even burning a few fallen branches in a campfire. The campers know that if the owners did not want them camping there they would have put up signs. But there are no signs, and since they know that most owners don’t mind they set up camp. Is this scenario different from wireless? Wireless that is not protected is just as easy to connect to as walking into unmarked private property in the woods. Most computers even by default prefer to connect to unprotected networks. There is also precedence with many open wireless network owners welcoming the public. Most anywhere you go in a large city you will find networks where it is perfectly legal to connect. How is one to know which wireless network is welcome and which one is not? Locking a wireless network with a password is the 21st century “No Trespassing!” sign, and it is unambiguous in its meaning.

07-08-2005, 09:15 PM	#19 (permalink)
2ToyGuy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Yuma, Az Posts: 389	Same thing. They're stealing the use of this person's land. Just because they are doing it through ignorance is no excuse. Once again, you seem to have a "blame the victim" mentality. He didn't post a sign, so it's his fault they're camped illegally on his land without his permission. He didn't put in security, so it's his fault his equipment and service was used illgally without his permission. He didn't lock his car door, so it's his fault that it was stolen and used illegally and without his permission. Just because the campers can't be bothered with knowing where they are and the ownership of the land they tread is no excuse. That's like someone saying "No one ever told me it was illgal to steal cable!". They get charged just the same. Or setting up a Tesla coil under a power line to tap the power. It's just floating around out there, after all. Once again, stealing is stealing, and now the excuse is ignorance, which is no excuse at all. __________________ "Well, that didn't work!" - Baron Manfred von Richtofen, during the latter portion of his last flight '87 4Runner, 22RE, pretty much stock, on it's 3rd head now, 146 k miles '87 2WD P/U, 22R, stock everything, mostly factory everything too, 286 k miles, beater truck. 10 year US Marine and proud of it. One of my daughters is an active duty Marine, another is Navy!

07-08-2005, 09:43 PM	#20 (permalink)
jimbo74 Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Nor*Cal Posts: 6,582

07-09-2005, 12:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
Dublin Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Appleton, Wi. USA Posts: 884	Not condoning or condeming, I just like analogies on stealing. A bee keepers bees leave the hive go to neighboring propertys aquire pollen from plants that don't belong to the bee keeper. The beeker profits from the honey. A property owner has a dusk to dawn light and pays the electric bill, but the light is bright enough that the nieghbor does not have to turn on his outside light to do a few things in his yard thus saving electricy. The people across the way light off fireworks that they payed for and the neighborhood watches. These are just a few things we are all aware of, is it theft? Possibly, possibly not. __________________ 94 4Runner 4x4, V6 Auto, Outlaw II's with BFG 33x12.5x15 on stock suspension (no lift), Kenwood KDC-MVP Sirius/MP3 player, Bushwacker extenda-flares, 1700 watt power inverter, Air intake mod, Radio Shack CB, GPS, Swing arm tire carrier, modified 1st gen Toyota 4Runner Rollbar, Aisin manual hubs, 87 inclinometer, Toyota Brush guard. Where ever you go, there you are. I started out with nothing & still have most of it left.

07-09-2005, 07:01 PM	#22 (permalink)
CynicX Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,371	before we get back into this whole stealing thing...remember the news editors of that article gave it the "stealing" title...he was arrested for a 3rd degree felony....which can include theft but by defination is a severe crime.... so before we go back into this...he is NOT being arrested for stealing...he is charged with the a 3rd degree felony....The person that wrote the article made the title... I can gaurentee he wont get charged with "theft". More likely a generic computer crime. __________________ 06 Subaru WRX

07-14-2005, 05:41 PM	#23 (permalink)
BT17R Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Da Gorge, Oregon Posts: 5,673	I believe he should be held accountable too. But for a felony? Pretty harsh potential penalty of up to 5 years and/or $5,000 fine. I don't think it rises to the level of the better known Florida felonies like: a. Treason; b. Murder; c. Manslaughter; d. Sexual battery; e. Carjacking; f. Home-invasion robbery; g. Robbery; h. Arson; i. Kidnapping; j. Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon; k. Aggravated battery; l. Aggravated stalking; m. Aircraft piracy; n. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; o. Any felony that involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against an individual; p. Armed burglary; q. Burglary of an occupied structure or dwelling If the judge has discretion, I don't think he should do time, but this is Florida so an elected prosecutor may be campaigning on a law and order platform. Maybe the perp can make a large campaign contribution and walk.

07-14-2005, 05:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
4RocRunner92 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Boone, NC Posts: 1,519	I remember someone had a thread on this...on whether to do it or not. Haha, forgot the user but I guess you got some cold hard facts to think about now. __________________ Jason A friend of the devil is a friend of mine. 1992 SR5 4RocNC Videos

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