noahrexion

Ok so i just installed a nice new deck and speakers all around. THe settup is as follows:

Pioneer DEH-80MP (with lovely 60w x 4 internal amp), some 6.75" Inifinity Kappa 2-way coax speakers (652.5i or something) to sound nice up front and then in the rears I basically just found some cheapo 5.25" Blaupunkt's that actually sound decent.

Anyhow the install is very nice and everything is nice and loud. I have no idea wht I am doing with the equalizer on teh deck or how to get the best sound out of my new settup, but that is a different story I have had all Inifinity's in the past and know that they make NO low bass. I love their mids and highs and thats why I continue to buy them. Obviously the weaker rear Blaupunkts aren't gonna make a lot of bass either.

So... All I want now is a just a little bass to round out the system. I happen to have been give some old equipment that I would like to make use of. It is a mono 80w RMS x 1 Pioneer amp (that is pretty small) and some cheesy ass brand (prolly autozone or something) 10" woofer in a small sealed box. The thing is, is that both of them work and I have tons of wiring to do everything properly.

Question #1: attached below is a pic of where I would like to somehow mount the woofer. Im not to sure how I would do it but i am very edgy about just putting a box back there because of space; so I definitely want to mount it (or try) into the rear paneling somehow. Im not worried about the amp and its wiring cause its small and very easy to install somewhere out of the way, Im more concerned about the sub and how it should be done.


Qustion #2: You think that an 80watt RMS going into a 10" would be enough to just balance out my Runner? I don't want hard hitting anything, or bumps or any of that. I just want smooth, fast hitting balance in the system to make up for the only thing, IMO, that the INifinity's are lacking.

Question #3: Has anyone ever attemped to mount a woofer up front somewhere? Is there anywhere that you guys think this could be possible? If so woudl it even sound right?


Thanks for any and all input on the matter, I love what I have so far I just need a little bass to round it out. I don't want to drop more $ and I already have everythign I need (accept custom install materials which wont be much).

4-RUNNIN' FREAK

Question 1. That is where the drain for the sunroof ends in my truck. Decent space if you take it out.

Question 2. If you spent decent money for speakers up front, you should get something halfway decent other than an autozone 10".
For the EQ, try starting with everything flat, turn it up, and try to adjust where it sounds best to you.

Question 3. Mount the subs up front? It can be done, and a guy (Earl Zausmer) with a BMW won "best sounding car in the world" (given out only to him) with 15" subs mounted in his front kickpanels. Granted it cost him a lot of $$$, but he did it.

Earl Zausmers BMW 540i

jimrockford

You're looking at a lot of work to mount a sub in that area. In the end, I think you'd be dissapointed with the result, especially with an Autozone sub running off of 80 watts.

Most subs require a predetermined volume of airspace behind them. They usually aren't designed to be mounted in an infinite baffle environment where air dispersed from the rear of the speaker can "leak" to the front causing muddy bass and lack of definition. I believe that's the problem you're going to run into mounting in that location - unless you're willing to put in a lot of work to seal the area.

A better option might be to buy a box designed to fit in that area. You'll retain your cargo room for the most part, but vibration is likely to be a problem. Here's one at Crutchfield:

Q-Customs 4Runner Subwoofer Box

I know you're not looking to spend a lot of money and that box is pretty expensive. Another option is to look at subs that require a small sealed enclosure. One of my favorites is the Image Dynamics IDQ series. They aren't very expensive and are some of the best sound quality subs on the market. I have a 12" in a .7 cubic foot sealed box in my 4Runner. You could fit an IDQ-10 in a box as small as .3 cubic feet. That's a pretty tiny box and wouldn't take up much room. They sell the IDQ-10 v.2 at SoundDomain for $149.95 and usually a bit cheaper on eBay.

noahrexion

Ok, well heres an update as far as this settup goes. I am thinking that I am going to just buy a newer (but cheap, around $35 or so) sub from sounddomain or something. One that was reman. or is open box or something that I can get for a good deal. I figure you are right about the whole autozone sub. I pulled it out of the box I had today and was pretty much disgusted with the design features of the sub. I would bet that 80 watts would blow it, lol

Anyhow here are a few pics of the space behind that panel. I do not have a sunroof and so i am assuming (not to make an ass ) that that black "vent"/"pocket" thing can be removed cause I see no functional purpose to it at all. There is plenty of space behind there and I have devised a new plan.





I think I am going to keep the amp since its free and I think 80 watts rms will be enough to balance out my deal. However I am going to just remove the plastic behind the panel there and not even cut the panel at all. My measurements in the paneling back there coudl easily fit the custom mounted sub totally behind the panel, so it will be totally concealed. There are already those 6-7 vents in the panel itself which will serve as my speaker grill.

Jim, I think you are definitely right about the airspace as well, so unless I can find a "free air" sub, then I think I will try to mold something up for cheap to seal off as much as I can. Im definitely going ahead with the project, I just have to find the sub that I want. I will be taking pics along the way so if any of you are interested just stay tuned. Thanks for the feedback, more is always welcome.

94x4

It is possible to surface or flush or sub-surface mount a woofer in that area, although alot of work is required as jimrockford mentioned.

You'll need to get some fiberfill out of old, cheap pillows to line the entire "chamber" with to use as insulation;
A piece of 1/4" plywood cut to fit the mounting area for use as both a seal and mounting plate;
A good silicone chaulking to seal all of the joints that you will find in the area;
A 1" thick or more block of rubber or foam rubber (picture old couch cushions)that'll have to be cut to fit the area(s) above the rear wheel hump in order to seal the remainder of the quarter panel area off from the speaker housing;
Some spray adhesive to use to attach the fiberfill to the inner quarter panel and the inside of the trim panel;
A jig saw to cut the plywood panel into shape;
And a router to notch a few more vent slots into the trim panel itself.

noahrexion

Ok, so I decided to just get this sub since its had a lot of great reviews as far as free air mounting and its power handling is really close to that of the amp I already have. I got it off ebay for $45 shipped

So I think I will mount and hook everything up and see how it sounds with the panel off first. i will try to elimnate any/all rattling if possible with the panel off and go from there. I ordered it now so it will be a few days, but I will definitely be taking pics. I bought it to mount free air as I don't want to have to get to crazy with sealing things off. Id rather just rattle proof it as its much easier and cheaper (plus the kicker comps sound great IMO).

94x4

O'kay, but you'll still have to do a cut out in the trim panel/install a spacer on the face of the mounting flange to hold the trim panel away from the woofer to give the subs' rubber surround room to recoil, otherwise it will just beat itself to death against the back of the trim panel irregardless of how much you "rattle proof" it.

NisAznMonk

Here are some visuals that may help you out.





Click here for the original thread.

This is some recent work done here by Aaron Davis at Innovative Rides. He stuffed a Peerless XLS 10" subwoofer into a sealed enclosure that is about 0.4ft³. The Peerless XLS 12" can go into a box as small as 0.6ft³ sealed.




The Image Dynamics IDQ is also a great subwoofer if you need good bass from a small box. Inifinti makes a Reference subwoofer that will work in a 0.5ft³ sealed box as well. Just finished one of those in a 2005 Nissan 350z convertible.

This next set is from a GMC Yukon also done at Innovative Rides. A pair of JL Audio 10w3's in a sealed enclosure. It actually sounded VERY good.



As far as free air subs go, you just can't stuff them in the cornor and expect them to play well. Even though they can operate in a free-air environment, they still use the vehicle as an enclosure. Don't expect the Kicker to sound good without either adding more power or giving it some more room to play in.

noahrexion

Ok so i have made some progress as far as the install goes. I got my Kicker Comp 8" and found out how nice and smooth this install is going to go. Unfortunately, the amp I have is a lil messed up and only one of the channels works. So I bought a new amp that will push more than enough watts to my new sub. I just need to wait about 5 more days until it gets here.

I ran all the wiring and decided to mount the amp under the drivers seat for many reasons. Everything is good to go there and all the wiring is ran (pic shown), I just need to get the amp and finish mounting the sub.

I cut away the black plastic air diverter from the rear panel (pic shown) and also trimmed down the white air box that vents to the rear bumper (pic shown). I then trimmed away the openings of the rear panel for two reasons, 1) so the sub will have more room to bump and push air without hitting the panel and then 2) so its not almost totally blocked off like it is regularly (pics shown). I will show you later on how the rest of the install goes and what I plan to do as far as mounting, but it looks like without anything that I will be able to get 4/8 holes mounted quite easily and so I think 2 custom grinded metal brakets wil give me enough for 2 more holes which I will be satisfied with. I am stuffing the rear area hardcore with some old pillows (pic shown) and think this will suffice just fine.

Ill keep you all updated. Now for some pics of clearances and what not. Enjoy...


This is the sub taped up how it will be mounted, but the panel fits perfectly over it with room to spare (about 1.5" to be exact).



Trimmed paneling

More trimmed paneling (still functional)

Stuffing

Amp wiring

94x4

You're working it! Keep it up.

You'll want to "unfold" the pillows to use them as they are wrapped layer on layer to obtain their thickness and perhaps gently pull the batting apart to "fluff" it out a bit as those pillows look pretty used to me, as it should be.

Another thought is that you might want to try investing in some "DynaMat" (the thin, foil faced type) and use it to line the inside of the trim panel (two(2) layers) as it would probally be an easier application than the batting..., it's up to you.

The only other suggestions that I would have is to use some sort of spacers when mounting the amp under the seat (at least 1/2"-1" depending on the amps height profile) to hold it up off of the floor/carpeting to insure better air circulation and heat dissapation and avoid any possibility of "shorting" something out due to potential ground level debris/clutter and get a fan to insure the same as it will increase the longevity of the amps circuitry merely by helping it to operate cooler.

noahrexion

Thanks a lot for the tips! I actually planned on pulling the pillows apart As far as teh dynamat, my friedn works at a body shop and is getting me a can of some really thick rubberized spray that I will be using instead (its free).

Ill be finishing everything within the next few days and ILl update with pics ofcourse. Thanks for everyones replies,

Austin

94x4

Cool pickup on the freebie "rubberized spray", as long as it remains "pliable" upon setting that is.

If it hardens upon setting, then all that you've really done is increase the thickness and weight of your trim panel and not necessarily insured against vibration..., you should check in with your friend about this.

And no prob on the tips and help, this is afterall YOTATECH, it's what we do.

noahrexion

Ok so here is one more update before the final version (should be 2 more days). So I actually installed the sub and put everything back together but then ended up getting some of this awesome rubberized coating that I am sort of using to deaden a lot of what I think will rattle back there.

I hit a lot of the major surrounding area, area's where there is any weakness/flexibility and then i hit all the mounting points where the panel actually goes to the body as I know the plastic will be the worst as far as rattles go.

Anyhow the am will be here tomorrow Im sure so Ill prolly have updated pics of all teh final install/commentary either tomorrow night or sometime Friday. Thanks for tuning it

noahrexion

And here is the final posting incase anyone wants to see the final pics.
It actually sounds pretty nice as of now, however I want to break everything in so I haven't cranked anything yet.

So far so good though and Im really pleased with the solidity and response of the bass considering its free-air (sort of). Everything fit very nicely and for as cheap and easy as this was I would highly suggest this route to anyone. I think next time if I were to do it over and had some more $ I would definitely have gotten a 10". I am happy with what I got, but I don't think it would be to much more difficult getting a 10" in there (not as easy, but not to hard).

Here are the last pics of the install. All the rubberized coating dried up very nicely in 24hours and made all teh mounting points very smooth and "cushy". I stuffed the nutts out of everything with those 2 pillows and it was JUST the right amount. The last pic you can see how much room there is between the actual speaker and the panel, so it has plenty of room to "bump" without touching anything.

Enjoy! I'll gladly post some later if anyone wants anything in specific.
I also woulnt mind making a collage for a sticky somewhere either...

94x4

Uh, you may have misunderstood me about the fiberfil and I even checked my post to make sure that I said "line the entire chamber...", not stuff it full of the fiberfil.

In your doing this it appears that you've eliminated all of the potential "area" of the chamber that woofer's generally require to generate whole, full bass notes..., I really would'nt recommend this configuration for accurate bass reproduction.

You see, enclosure design and configuration is predicated on usage of a predetermined amount of air space as a primary concern to insure accurate bass reproduction be it a "free air" sub or not.

I'd take a majority of the fiberfil out and use it just to "line" the available area in order to create an insulated "space", and I'd also install an addotional bracket at the top, and perhaps bottom, of the woofer for use as a mounting point to provide better stability for the sub.

noahrexion

Well I actually did install brackets I just didnt take a pic of it
You think maybe I should just loosen it up? I didnt put it all in there to tight, but it definitely is touching everything. Ill try taking out a good portion of it to loosen it up more so its just barely filling it. Thanks for the tip!

94x4

Gotcha on the bracketry.

The best example that I can give you of what I'm talking about without actually being there and/or posting pics (still can't do that yet) is to have you remove one of the speakers from your home stereo and look inside at the way the manufacturer installed the fiberfil there.

No prob on the "tip", tip, it's YOTATECH, it's what we do!