OneTrickToy

Okay, I don't think these have been asked before.

1. Can the hangers be welded in place while the IFS is still in place? This would decrease downtime for a daily driver.

2. Okay, so people take diffs and shorter or lengthen the axle shafts. Is is possible to take the IFS diff and build solid axle shafts for it? This would greatly decrease cost in a swap. What I don't know is how well built the IFS diff is, whether it would be okay if it got smacked up on a trail. Would some diff armor work in protecting it?

I'm sure there is a reason why people haven't gone this route... so please tell me why. This would shave off regearing costs and the cost of a new diff.

Thanks guys.

Flygtenstein

The hanger can be welded in with IFS still in tact. Depending on your bumper situation, it may need to be removed and adjusted for the hanger since most use the front crossmember to some degree that is not compatible with the hanger.

A really motivated person could make a completely custom axle to use the IFS third, but why? You would have a smaller ring gear, fewer traction device choices and a lot of completely custom parts that would be a bear to replace if they ever broke.

A new IFS diff with the traction device, new gears and install costs pretty much the same as a solid axle third member. The cost savings would be just that you have the one and not the other. I intend to sell my IFS diff when the time comes because it is ARB'd and regeared.

Not saying that people don't worry about swap costs, but for a lot of people, nothing will stand in the way. Solid axle performance is worth every penny, buy once, cry once.

crawler#976

1. Yes, you can locate and weld up the front drop hanger and cut the holes and weld in the rear shackle mount tubes for the front axle.

2 The IFS Ring and Pinion are 7.5" in dia vs. 8" dia for the 79' to 85' solid axle. The IFS parts won't interchange w/ the stonger items you'll want for a "wheeler". Spend the money on proven equipment!

A complete (hub to hub) 84' or 85' axle should cost no more than $300.00 prior to rebuilding it. A basic knuckle rebuild kit is $105.0 for seals, wipers, etc, and depending on what else you want to do, like a locker ($199.00 to $700.00, gears ($200.00), R/P setup kit ($145.00), inner axles ($229.00) and Super Birfs ($300.00), and brake upgrades ( $120.00 for rotors, your IFS calipers work fine)you can spend a BUNCH on money.

later

anthony1

iTrader: (1)

I'm in the middle of doing just that. I got the FrontRange hanger welded on already. Still working on the axle itself...changing the knuckle bearings, seals and stuff. I got the AP jig to line up the holes for shackles. Running 35's on 5.29 rear with Toy cable converted e-locker.

OneTrickToy

In the middle of what? Welding the hangers? Or converting your IFS diff?

OneTrickToy

Just a little background on why....

First, I'm a college student. I don't have the money to drop down on a complete SAS. If I wasn't already in debt by $2,000 then I'd do it.

Second, I need to replace my CV's, and both Christmas and my birthday are coming up. If I could keep the swap simple and somewhat cheap, then I could most likely do it during my winter break.

The one problem I've come up with is finding axles with the right spline count, diameter, and length. Does any one know where to find some axles that would work? This seems to be my only hangup.

Obviously down the road when I'm done with school and out of debt, I'd replace the 7.5" axle with an 8" or better. But seeing as how I'm in debt, and I just got a locker, I want to check out my other options before I drop some money on new CV's.

Flygtenstein

I am a broke college kid too.

I am pretty sure Anthony is using a regular old 8" diff.

Getting a solid axle instead of replacing two CV's is like buying a new toilet instead of flushing.

Is it the boots, or the joints? You should be able to find someone who just swapped and get old CV's for less than $100 for a pair.

If you use stock rears, fab the hanger, fab the shocks towers, use old brakelines connected in line, bought High Steer and shocks new, you could get it done for $1500 maybe. That assumes all the welding is free and you find some great deals.

Not that thinking out of the box is bad, but I think the time and energy it would take to do this essentially wrong once knowing full well that you are going to do it again eventually would not at all be worth it.

What sort of rig have you got now? How is it set-up?

33's with a couple of lockers and some lower gears will get you on an awful lot of trails.

OneTrickToy

I've got a 91 Pickup. Detroit rear, Lockright for the front(waiting for new CV's to install). I've got a 3" suspension lift, and I'm running 32" A/T's. My rig is definately capable..... but I would love to just go with the SAS. What I was originally thinking.... was this...

Fab up the hangers, Spring perchs, and shock towers on a CNC machine. Cost of Metal and that's it.(friend has access to machines at school).

Have new axleshafts made(can't be too hard/expensive...)

Buy new shocks $70 for a pair of Rancho 5000's.

Buy new leaf springs....don't know the cost off hand.

New axles.


I figure the axles are something I have to spend either way. So if I could convert the IFS diff to SAS.... then the only difference in cost between replacing the CV's and converting would be in the $400-500 range?

crawler#976

AND WEAK STUFF THAT'S GONNA BREAK-

anthony1

iTrader: (1)

I was fine with the setup I have except that I want to go with 35's and more flex.
There's nothing cheap about doing SAS. Keep your money for college. When you get a real job after that then spend the money to do it right.
Here's my list.....
Longfield, High Pinion ARB front with 5.29 Marlin Hysteer. Marlin shock hoops. Marlin wheel spacers. Frontrange Hanger, 5.29 rear with Toy cable conversion e-locker, AllPro rear end links. AP springs.
It's going slow cause of other things. I'm doing as much as I can myself. It's also a learning experience too.
Good excused to get tools.....LOL

OneTrickToy

It's not going to be any weaker than it already is. That's my point. I figured that if I could do it my way, down the road I could always replace the axle when I have more money.

crawler#976

ok, I'll go with what you want to do, convert the IFS to solid-

lets start to think about exactly what your going to use to accomplish this.

1. Starting with the IFS center section. What machining will it require to fit the tubing into it prior to welding on the new tubing?

2. What are you going to use for knuckles, knuckle bearings, birf's, , rotors, calipers, etc.? Or are you going to custum fab a hybrid Dana 44 or Dana 60 outer onto your new axle tubes? This does have it's advantages as far as being able to rotate the center section up to decrease the angle on d'shaft u-joints.

3. Steering components- One good thing you have is the IFS steering box. If you use Toy Knuckles, you can use commercially available High Steering Arms. If you go with Dana 44 outers, get the flat tops, and then some custom arms can be built for steering.

4. Fortunately, if you use Toy compontents and keep it stock width, inner axles are available from custom shops. I'd suspect they'll run about $75.00 to a $100.00 apiece - and you'll need to get two extras for spares.

5. Spring mounting- no big deal- slap some new perches on the new axle tubes- but make sure you get the camber set right so that you don't end up with death wobble- I had it bad after monkeying around w/ angles and wheel spacer, it's no fun at all.

SO,

To get the part necessary to do the swap, your gonna have to buy either a bent Toy solid axle or a Dana 44 or 60 axle from the wrecking yard.

hmmmmmmmmmmm.

crawler#976

or you can do what most of us do, sell your IFS stuff when your done to help defray the cost of the SAS

OneTrickToy

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm asking stupid question. I'm not trying to be thick headed in any way. I'm trying to learn and understand how certain things work, and possibly find other options.

Okay first thing, as far as the center section goes, I was thinking of using the flanges from the IFS. But I'm realizing this would be a major weak point when at angles.

The other thing I hadn't thought about is the steering knuckles. I guess I was thinking at first that you could connect the IFS outer to the solid axle inner in some way... but that wouldn't work.

See how much I've learned already from asking these questions?

**I don't like to just take what someone says as final. I like a little more than just the answer, I want an explanation as to why. If people didn't ask why, then we wouldn't have progressed as far as we have in the offroad world.**

oly884

My best advice to you is not to go and do the SAS without the proper axle. I know you're looking for a cheaper solution, but you'll run into more problems by doing this. Heck, you might even spend more money trying to convert the 7.5 diff. Plus what about the ADD? How's that going to work with a SAS? Since I'm in your exact situation (poor college studen who really want's a sas) just save up your money and do it when you don't have to worry about the cost, that much.

OneTrickToy

I don't have ADD. I have Superwinch manual hubs. Well.... crap..... How much are new CV's? I should give my friend a call(works for NAPA) so I can get his discount. Too bad the ATS arms are so expensive. Cause that would make me happy until I can do a SAS.... but for the cost of ATS arms, better off going SAS.

So what can I do then to improve my articulation? My Rancho upper A-arms suck.

Flygtenstein

Swapping hubs has zero impact on ADD. ADD is a vaccuum operated system.

A reman'd CV should be around $70 off the shelf at a parts house. As I said before used ones could be found for less.

My impression is that if you have the time, energy and money to attempt the swap making everyything custom for the IFS diff, then you have the time, energy and money to do it "right."

Add air shocks that are cross linked and be done with IFS as that will make it about is good as it gets. Monroe MA756

OneTrickToy

I don't think you understand... I never had ADD to begin with. There are no 4x4 engage buttons or anything of the sort in my truck. It was the base model 4x4. No special options. Nothing.

anthony1

iTrader: (1)

If you have one of this in the front then you have ADD

hub.


You have aftermarket manual hub. That means it was changed out from autohub at somepoint. It's unlikely that it was changed from Ausin

Flygtenstein

I don't think that you understand.

Thanks for posting the pic, that is a good one to have handy for discussion such as this.