rngrchad

I feel compelled to post my feelings on running a "lunchbox" in the rear axle, on road, in the snow. I have read multiple posts, and reposts, with different feelings concerning lunchbox lockers while driving in snowy and icy road conditions with little feedback from drivers who have actually used them in these situations. I have just returned from a roadtrip that ran my Tacoma from the mountain passes of montana, to wyoming, idaho, and colorado. I drove primary and secondary roads, covered with solid ice, foot deep drifts, blowing snow, packed snow, and powder snow. The only condition I did not encounter for a considerable amount of time was slush.
Vehicle specs: 97 4wd Tacoma, 33" bfg mt, auto tranny, lockright locker in rear, axle with a considerable amount of weight in the bed.
Accelleration and decelleration on all winter conditions had very very little adverse affects, if any at all.
Patchey snow, and ice, where one side of the road is dry, and the other ice or snow, is where the lockright really shined. It gave great traction, and kept the truck extremely managable on these conditions with almost NO rear wheel slippage. A BIG plus in all aspects.
Powder snow(3+ inches or more on road surface) my truck handled as it did prior to lockright install. Very little if any noticable difference with or without locker.
Solid Ice on road. I encountered this where drifting and blowing snow would encounter the black sun warmed roads, and thus melt instantly covering the roads with a 1/2" of solid ice. Suprisingly I was able to keep a 40 to 45 mph pace, keeping a feel for any wheel slippage so I can react with slight decelleration to prevent my rear end from sliding to the lower side of the road. Not a big deal, I ran at least 50 miles of SOLID ice on flat roads.
Packed snow: Packed roads, completely covered, but packed from other vehicles passing over multiple times. These conditions I was able to run 50+ mph, and had great traction. No adverse affects.
Mountain Passes with extremely sharp curves covered in snow/ice:
Truck will want to understeer a bit because of slightly more traction in the back than in front. Had to keep this in mind. However, where if other vehicles would stop, they would not have the traction to get moving again, whereas my locked truck would. I'm not sure if this is because of added weight or a direct result of the locked rear end.
Well I hope this helps all those inquiries where people are questioning the use of lockers in snow. I had a thorough testing opportunity on this roadtrip and was pleased with the manners, and drive-ability of my lunchbox locked tacoma 4x4.
-Chad

86Original

I have the Aussie in my front. When the hubs are locked and the T/c is in 2wd, the Aussie ratchets when turning corners. When I put it in 4WD and gas it, it pulls! With the ADD, the left stub shaft should be disconnected from the right stub shaft, so it shouldn't even ratchet, just freewheel.

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

Kalvin,

I recently upgraded to a lock-rite in the rear and a truetrac in the front. I am very much getting used to the lock-rite's quirks, especially since I have a worn out 5-speed and a worn out clutch. Here's a few things I've noticed... I want to make sure that these are all normal

1. Upon acceleration, the truck straightens out. Also when I upshift I feel the truck do a little twisty, like how the fronts of drag racers come up and twist to the side some. I suppose this is due to both tires pulling and at the same rate.

2. Slightly harder shifting, occasionally, and only in low gears. My 1-2 shift will sometimes go into gear with a little resistance that was not there before I installed this thing. Also, on the 1-2 shift I have from time to time gotten that POP that I imagine is a pin getting a bit out of line and being crammed back into its little hole when the lash is suddenly taken up in the driveline as the clutch is released.

3. What really worries me is the occasional bucking when I am decelerating into a turn. I drive around in the outer edges of metro Atlanta, and every jerk on the road curses your existence when you have to slow down to turn off of a main road. I try to move as quickly as I can, but when I am decelerating, say at 20mph in 3rd gear, and then I hit the gas again, it can cause the truck it lurch forward, lurch back, lurch forward, and so on until I push in the clutch and straighten out. Is the remedy to slow down more before entering the turn so that I can accelerate the whole way through the turn? Seems like the lockrite will only let you power through a turn or coast through.

4. Shifting while turning does lots of weird things. Thats when the rear pops and clunks the most. Since I have regeared to 4.88, 1st gear runs out fast, and I usually have to shift to 2nd while I'm halfway into a turn so I can go faster than 10mph. That can cause the bucking phenomenon in #3.

Someone teach me how to drive my stupid truck...

Intrepid

1. I don't have this problem with mine, I have never noticed any issue here. I do have a bit of a pull to one side upon hard acceleration and/or hard braking, but I attributed that to lack of a torque rod on my sfa.

2. Never experienced this at all.

3. This I believe is somewhat common with the lockright. As it ratchets with minimal power and minimal speed, it causes a jerking, this is eliminated by either a little gas or a little clutch. If I am in a low speed, hard turn, I will usually just push in the clutch. However, mine only does it around 5-10 mph max, I never notice it at 20-30.

4. I have never had this happen either to be honest. Maybe it is because you are running 4.88's on 31's? Perhaps you should let off the clutch a bit easier, maybe that would help.

I am definitely curious to hear if anyone else has had these issues you are having because I have never had most of them. I am curious if I am the norm or if my lack of issues is odd.

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

Hey Intrepid... finished my first slider in welding class last night

I have a feeling alot of my difficulty is due to a worn out clutch. It doesn't slip, but because it is soft and finnicky I think I just tend to dump it when I upshift.

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

Well on the ride home today I experimented some more. In turns it is definitely a coast or power deal. Also, letting out the clutch easier does help with that twisting nonsense.

I think in another week I'll forget its there, other than the clicking and the occasional tire chirp heh heh

William

This is not entirely true, and here's why.

The coupler halves will ratchet (Aussie, Lock Right, EZ Locker) or separate (No SLip, Detroit) on the same side that's connected to the outside wheel, allowing the wheel to overrun (spin faster) than the ring gear while turning. The inside wheel is pushing the vehicle forward, at the same RPM as the ring gear.

This will happen while letting off the gas, coasting, AND CAN HAPPEN WHILE ON THE THROTTLE.

The inside wheel chirp you hear when turning isn't always due to "locking up". Applying enough gas to make the inside wheel rotate hard enough to overcome traction is what makes it chirp. This DOESN'T necessarily mean that the diff is locked.

The diff is locked ONLY if theres enough throttle to make the inside tire rotate as fast as the outside tire. It CAN chirp when there is enough throttle to make the inside tire rotate faster than it needs to, but there's not always enough throttle to make it rotate the same speed as the outside while the inside is chirping.

I've had 2 Lock Rights and 2 No Slips, and one Ford Traclock limited slip. Even the Traclock could chirp the inside tire, but it was by no means fully locked.

And you can chirp the inside tire with an open differential. Does this mean it's locked? No.

I know quite a lot about this, because not only have I installed my lockers and inspected the parts to figure out how they work, but I also have experiment with them and tested their operation.

Bigblock

So...Is the Torsen-Gleason(Detroit-Eaton) still the best [locker] for the front? For clarity,I'm refering to the parallel axis worm gear [locker] that is not realy a locker but it (binds up) the free turning tire to put power to the tractive tire.

William

The Gleason Torsen (along with the very similer Detroit Truetrac) isn't a locker, but a limited slip. Both the Torsen and Truetrac are probably the best performing limited slips available, while still being easy to live with on a daily basis.

Neither the Torsen nor the Truetrac will transfer power to the wheel with traction as well as a locker, but they typically do better than a clutch type limited slip, and they don't have clutches that wear out.

Robinhood150

Links to retrofitting a toyota e-locker into an axle:

http://carterswebsite.com/4runner/mods/locker/
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/electric_locker/

Discussions about doing the install:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357137
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229719
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212065
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288708

vwfastg60

How do i know what locker i need.I know nothing about the trucks as far as figuring out what parts are what but have been turning wrenches for a long time on VW's.If im told kinda how to do things i can usually figure out the rest.
I have an 87 longbed 5speed 22r truck it is 4wheel drive but what i have found is some toyota packages had different parts. My turbo 4runner had a v6 rearend i was told.Would my truck being a delux change any of this? Im looking to gear my truck and do front and rear lockers but dont know what to buy or even where to get gears.I picked up a summit price book and found 30spline lockers for toyota 8inch rearends but dont know and im starting to think they wont fit. Any help on figuring this stuff out would be great and if someone can give input on gears please IM me. I dont mean to jack this thread.

hross14

OK--So i am have done alot to cars but have never rebuilt a rear-end. So here goes--1997 4Rnr v-6 5Spd and the rear is howling pretty good. I want to replace the rear but not sure of everything i have to get. I know i want a Tru-Trac because i dont do alot of major off-roading and I also know that i need a new ring and pinion (from what i have read). But i do want a beefier rear-end without having to modify my own. It is also a daily driver so my down time have to be pretty short. Should i try to set it up myself or just get the parts and then have it set up? Any suggestions for vendors and or how to go about this.

Thanks Henry

M threezy

So I am about to regear my truck. I plan to use it as DD and occasional wheeler. Still IFS right now. The dileimia I am having is should I install this locker while I have it opened? The fact is I am low on funds and havent wheeled this truck yet, so I am not sure if I will ever need it but might as well throw it in while it is open?

What do you guys think? Just go for it and or hold off until I think/know I will need it?

William

[QUOTE=Napoleon047;439033]with the engine off and the transmission in gear and both wheels off the ground, you cannot turn one of them. period. the differential is locked.QUOTE]

I know this is an old post I'm responding to, but I've only been a member since last August and just a few days ago bought my first Toyota.

I've had experience with a front Lock Right in the Dana 44 front of a '78 Bronco, a Lock Right in the Ford 8.8 rear of a '94 Mazda Navajo (same as a same year 2 door Explorer) which was replaced by a No Slip when it wore out, and a Detroit EZ Locker in the Dana 35 front of the Navajo (replaced by a No Slip after the EZ Locker failed while testing after the installation).

So that's 2 Lock Rights, 2 No Slips, and one POS EZ Locker.

Out of all the lunchbox lockers, the No Slip is the smoothest, quietest, and least prone to wear or failure. It is the only lunchbox locker I would buy, and my opinion is that it is worth the extra $100-$150 in cost over the Lock Right and it's clones.

Anyway, in reference to the post I quoted: "with the engine off and the transmission in gear and both wheels off the ground, you cannot turn one of them. period. the differential is locked." This is simply not true. In fact, after any of the lunchbox lockers I've had are installed, the instructions tell you to test the locker by spinning the wheels by hand. You can cause the coupler on one side of the differential to unlock, lust like the coupler attached to the outside wheel does while in a turn. This is part of the test.

It is harder to do with a brand new No Slip, but it can be done. The No Slip definately unlocks easier after it breaks in.

Now, as far as the term "lock" is concerned, looking at what's been posted here, I get the impression that some of you think that an automatic locker locks like a spool when throttle is applied. This is not true.

In a turn while the coupler connected to the outside wheel is unlocked, if you apply throttle the outside coupler will still not lock. If you give enough throttle, the inside wheel can spin and catch up to the speed of the outside wheel (like was already stated).

However, even then, the locker isn't locked like a spool is. Even under full throttle, if you could somehow spin one wheel faster than the ring gear, the coupler on that side will unlock.

It's probably just a matter of semantics for most of us. But I have ran across people that mistakenly thought when throttle is applied the locker locks and nothing will unlock it (like a spool).

melkor

so can you install aussies front and rear on a dd with no ill effects? from the explanation of the aussies, it makes it sound like they would be fine.

William

There will be a negative change in handling, but it's something that can be lived with.

I had a '94 Mazda Navajo 4wd (same as a same year 2 door Explorer) as a daily driver for many years, first with a rear Lock Right locker, then with front and rear No Slip lockers (the No Slip is smoother and quieter than the Aussie).

I had the Lock Right for about 37,000 miles until it wore out, and then had the rear No Slip for about 80,000 miles until I totalled the vehicle. In the meantime, I took 2 trips from Florida to Washington State and back, 4 to Kentucky and back while towing my motorcycle on a trailer, and a few other long trips.

I managed just fine.

By the way, in the quote that you quoted, it's not locking that makes the tires squeal. It's the fact that, while the vehicle is turning right or left, only the inside tire is accelerating or decelerating the vehicle.

Since only the inside tire is moving the vehicle, and since this tire has less weight because the vehicle leans toward the outside of the turn, the tire squeals easily.

When this happens, the inside tire is rotating the same speed as the ring gear, while the outside tire is rotating faster than the ring gear.

This is also why the handling changes when you install a rear locker. When the vehicle accelerates, the inside rear tire tries to push the vehicle in a straight line. When the vehicle decelerates due to the throttle being released, the inside rear tire tries to make the vehicle pull in the direction the vehicle is turning.

The key is, when you are turning, keep steady throttle and don't change speed. Or if you have a manual transmission, push in the clutch.

If you have an automatic transmission, the torque converter will absorb some of the shock load created by a locker, and the action of a locker won't be as jerky.

jason191918

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/...ad.php?t=22630

Here is a good resource.

William

His explaination of how a locker works isn't totally accurate. A locker equalizes wheel speed, not "power", which should be called torque.

He was correct in stating that a limited slip sends (transfers) torque to wheel with the most traction. However, a locker does the same thing (although the total amount a limited slip transfers is limited by clutch friction).

So he somewhat contradicted himself, because both increase motive force by transfering torque to the wheel with traction.

GreenFlames

ima newb so dont chew me out for this one,what if you got a "lunchbox" locker and a locker for your rear end and one for your front end would that give you like ultra locking power or somthing?

William

With front and rear lockers in a 4wd, and with the transfer case in 4wd, you would not be able to spin just 1, 2, or 3 tires. Either all 4 tires spin, or not at all. This gives as much motive force as is possible to propel the vehicle forward (or backward). However, you would still be limited by several factors, such as tire size, tire tread pattern, power, the terrain, vehicle weight, vehicle wheelbase, and driving technique.

Just because all 4 tires have the ability to turn doesn't mean the vehicle won't get stuck. In fact, it sometimes means that you will go further before you get stuck, and as a result, you might get stuck worse and/or get stuck further away from help.

I hope this answers your question.