Locker FAQ - Page 2

seaflea · 12-15-2004, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravencr

Here's what I sent back to him: "But, my hubs are engaged all the time even though I'm in 2wd. When I put it in 4wd I don't have to get out and lock my hubs in with manual hubs. It happens automatically, and I'm worried that if my hubs are engaged
100% of the time, so would the locker, right?

Chris"

And, here's what he responded with: "Hi Chris,

Here's a more detailed answer to your question about hubs.

Regarding the front end, the only factor to consider is the front
driveshaft. If the transfer case is in 2WD, the steering will be
unaffected even if the hubs are engaged. This is because side-to side
the locker doesn't lock but just ratchets when it needs to as long as
the drive shaft is floating. Thus, there is no load on the tires and
steering is normal. Steering becomes affected (will understeer) when the
drive shaft is loaded (connected) AND the hubs are engaged.

Not knowing if the hubs are in or out is one reason that I personally
don't like them. I'd rather get out and engage them myself. Also, what
happens when you get stuck in 2WD and can't move the vehicle to engage
them? In some vehicles this can be a problem.

In any case, just leave your transfer case in 2WD and you won't have a
problem regardless of what the hubs are doing.

Regards--John Zentmyer
Aussie Locker
Customer Service"

What do you guys think about all this? Would it work, and not hurt or cause weird steering or reliability issues?

Chris

Chris, I cant say for sure that it will work but, I can say that I have shifted into 2wd without unlocking the hubs and have had no ill effects. This was only for a short while though. Nothing permanent.
What happens if your auto hubs stay locked in one day?

Could be a reason to go to manual hubs.

ravencr · 12-15-2004, 12:10 PM

I got another response back indicating that they do make one for our model of vehicles, so I'm seriously considering this as a much more economical alternative to an ARB.

Chris

Napoleon047 · 12-15-2004, 01:10 PM

ok chris, you have drive flanges, NOT auto hubs. your front long side axle is a 2 peice axle with a sliding collar that locks them together, when you arent in 4x4, the collar should be slid into the neutral position, meaning the driver side tire is tied into the diff, but the passenger side tire is not. also the front driveshaft is free to spin, but it doesnt because when the driver side tire spins, it spins half of the long side shaft and not the whole diff.

if you have a lunchbox locker in there, since the driver side tire is attached to the axle and thus the diff, it will be causing the locker to ratchet constantly, and as a result it will wear out prematurely.

that said, either convert to manual hubs or remove the driver side drive flange when you drive on the street. if you opt to do this, i recommend making some sort of a dust cover for the bearings to put in place of the drive flange when on the street.

Napoleon047 · 12-15-2004, 01:15 PM

also, since you have an automatic, you may consider a truetrac. since you dont need to clutch, you have an extra foot open to operate the brake pedal. using the brakes, i can lock my front end completely, its much harder with a manual, but now that i have a 4.7:1 marlin gearset, its much easier. also, the truetrac doesnt make it hard to turn at all.

ravencr · 12-15-2004, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napoleon047

ok chris, you have drive flanges, NOT auto hubs. your front long side axle is a 2 peice axle with a sliding collar that locks them together, when you arent in 4x4, the collar should be slid into the neutral position, meaning the driver side tire is tied into the diff, but the passenger side tire is not. also the front driveshaft is free to spin, but it doesnt because when the driver side tire spins, it spins half of the long side shaft and not the whole diff.

if you have a lunchbox locker in there, since the driver side tire is attached to the axle and thus the diff, it will be causing the locker to ratchet constantly, and as a result it will wear out prematurely.

that said, either convert to manual hubs or remove the driver side drive flange when you drive on the street. if you opt to do this, i recommend making some sort of a dust cover for the bearings to put in place of the drive flange when on the street.

If this is the case, why would the company make one knowing this? I'm totally confused now.

Chris

ravencr · 12-15-2004, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napoleon047

also, since you have an automatic, you may consider a truetrac. since you dont need to clutch, you have an extra foot open to operate the brake pedal. using the brakes, i can lock my front end completely, its much harder with a manual, but now that i have a 4.7:1 marlin gearset, its much easier. also, the truetrac doesnt make it hard to turn at all.

I want a locker!

Chris

Flygtenstein · 12-15-2004, 03:42 PM

What you are discussing merits another thread since it is now a thorough hi-jack. Read up and you will find the answer.

Yes, drive flanges.

I would run an ARB. Bruce does without manual hubs and it works well.

ABQ Jim has a True-Trac. I have wheeled with him when it worked well and I have seen it let him down.

ravencr · 12-15-2004, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flygtenstein

What you are discussing merits another thread since it is now a thorough hi-jack. Read up and you will find the answer.

Yes, drive flanges.

I would run an ARB. Bruce does without manual hubs and it works well.

ABQ Jim has a True-Trac. I have wheeled with him when it worked well and I have seen it let him down.

Sorry man! I thought this was a discussion on lockers, but I'd be willing to delete my posts if everyone else is willing to delete their responses?

Chris

Napoleon047 · 12-16-2004, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravencr

If this is the case, why would the company make one knowing this? I'm totally confused now.

Chris

its the same locker that works in the front of the 86-95 IFS and in the 7.5" 2wd rear axles. even if its not the best choice for your app, it will fit and its more apt to be purchased for older trucks.

deathrunner · 12-17-2004, 09:35 AM

I think it could work, but the constant ratcheting could be annoying and possibly detrimental to the life of the locker.

Manual hubs are way better, just switch.I get otu and turn em on before the trail and get out and turn em off before the highway. No backing up, no unsureness. Simple.

ravencr · 12-17-2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathrunner

I think it could work, but the constant ratcheting could be annoying and possibly detrimental to the life of the locker.

Manual hubs are way better, just switch.I get otu and turn em on before the trail and get out and turn em off before the highway. No backing up, no unsureness. Simple.

I'd be better off getting an ARB than going to Manual Hubs, because of the cost.

Chris

Napoleon047 · 12-17-2004, 07:15 PM

yeah, the ARB would be a much better choice, but if you are looking for ultimate cheapness, you could always weld the front diff and then put a solenoid on the vac line for the disconnect so you could disconnect it manually when turning.

just another idea

ravencr · 12-18-2004, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napoleon047

yeah, the ARB would be a much better choice, but if you are looking for ultimate cheapness, you could always weld the front diff and then put a solenoid on the vac line for the disconnect so you could disconnect it manually when turning.

just another idea

Can you explain how that would work with my drive flanges?

Chris

Napoleon047 · 12-18-2004, 03:01 PM

ok with the front welded up, the driver side tire will always be connected and thus turning the diff and the front driveshaft. the sliding collar that connects/disconnnects the passenger side tire to the diff is operated by vac.

-on the street, you would have the vac disconnected, so the front tires can spin independently of each other.
-off road, when in 4 wheel drive, the driver side tire will be the only one recieving power until you connect the passenger side tire. when connected, you have full power to both wheels. when it is disconnected, your turning will not be hindered because the passenger side tire can spin independently of the driver side one.

i have seen this done on numerous jeeps because they too do not have manual hubs on the front.

now, why is this better than a lunchbox locker up front? the welded front will not be ratcheting constantly on the street like the lunchbox would. the only thing is it will spin the front driveshaft. so, if your front driveline is in good condition and balanced, etc. it shouldnt give you any issues.

ravencr · 12-18-2004, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napoleon047

ok with the front welded up, the driver side tire will always be connected and thus turning the diff and the front driveshaft. the sliding collar that connects/disconnnects the passenger side tire to the diff is operated by vac.

So, the question that I have is how do I activate this vacuum to lock in the front passenger wheel? How easily could I activate or deactivate this vacuum? Is it something I could do inside the cab with a switch?

Quote:

-on the street, you would have the vac disconnected, so the front tires can spin independently of each other.
-off road, when in 4 wheel drive, the driver side tire will be the only one recieving power until you connect the passenger side tire. when connected, you have full power to both wheels. when it is disconnected, your turning will not be hindered because the passenger side tire can spin independently of the driver side one.

i have seen this done on numerous jeeps because they too do not have manual hubs on the front.

now, why is this better than a lunchbox locker up front? the welded front will not be ratcheting constantly on the street like the lunchbox would. the only thing is it will spin the front driveshaft. so, if your front driveline is in good condition and balanced, etc. it shouldnt give you any issues.

Realistically speaking, how much quicker would this setup wear out my front end? And if it did make a big difference in reliability, what kind of costs & items would need to be replaced once worn out?

This seems like an extremely easy and very cheap mod, especially if I don't drive my truck on the road all that much anymore. Anyone else have any other comments or concerns with modding it like this? I think it's a great idea.

Chris

Flygtenstein · 12-18-2004, 03:28 PM

Sounds like a good way to reinvent the wheel.

An ARB goes open diff to spool in the push of a button. By the time you spend the time and money homebrewing a kit like that being described, you will have a home brewed, likely half cocked addition to a 25k truck.

700 bucks for an ARB and you skin the cat the right way.

Napoleon047 · 12-18-2004, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravencr

So, the question that I have is how do I activate this vacuum to lock in the front passenger wheel? How easily could I activate or deactivate this vacuum? Is it something I could do inside the cab with a switch?

Realistically speaking, how much quicker would this setup wear out my front end? And if it did make a big difference in reliability, what kind of costs & items would need to be replaced once worn out?

This seems like an extremely easy and very cheap mod, especially if I don't drive my truck on the road all that much anymore. Anyone else have any other comments or concerns with modding it like this? I think it's a great idea.

Chris

the vac can easily be manipulated by vac solenoids which you can find at junkyards, so yes, you could have an electric switch inside the cab that would control it.

the only additional parts in the front end that will be spinning are the carrier and the driveshaft. everything else up there is spinning on the street anyway. so like i said before, if your driveshaft is balanced and your u-joints are in good shape so nothing vibes when you are driving it at speed, then the additional wear on parts is negligible, IMO.

ravencr · 12-19-2004, 06:24 AM

Very interesting! Thanks for the info!

Chris

northfacer581 · 12-24-2004, 06:55 PM

ok after reading through all the posts and information, im still a little bit confused. heres my deal. i have a very limited budget. im looking at getting a locker. i have a 2wd, and i want to be able to do more with it, and ive been told numerous times a rear locker is the way to go. having said that, what are my options, and what do you all think is the best way to go? also, i want to know how much it will help in the snow (if we even get much)

12-15-2004, 01:10 PM	#28 (permalink)
Napoleon047 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 1,002	ok chris, you have drive flanges, NOT auto hubs. your front long side axle is a 2 peice axle with a sliding collar that locks them together, when you arent in 4x4, the collar should be slid into the neutral position, meaning the driver side tire is tied into the diff, but the passenger side tire is not. also the front driveshaft is free to spin, but it doesnt because when the driver side tire spins, it spins half of the long side shaft and not the whole diff. if you have a lunchbox locker in there, since the driver side tire is attached to the axle and thus the diff, it will be causing the locker to ratchet constantly, and as a result it will wear out prematurely. that said, either convert to manual hubs or remove the driver side drive flange when you drive on the street. if you opt to do this, i recommend making some sort of a dust cover for the bearings to put in place of the drive flange when on the street. __________________ -Peter 86 4runner SAS - Trail Rig 94 FZJ80 - DD the dirt cheap SAS Marko Customs

12-15-2004, 01:15 PM	#29 (permalink)
Napoleon047 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 1,002	also, since you have an automatic, you may consider a truetrac. since you dont need to clutch, you have an extra foot open to operate the brake pedal. using the brakes, i can lock my front end completely, its much harder with a manual, but now that i have a 4.7:1 marlin gearset, its much easier. also, the truetrac doesnt make it hard to turn at all. __________________ -Peter 86 4runner SAS - Trail Rig 94 FZJ80 - DD the dirt cheap SAS Marko Customs

12-17-2004, 09:35 AM	#35 (permalink)
deathrunner Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 2,931	I think it could work, but the constant ratcheting could be annoying and possibly detrimental to the life of the locker. Manual hubs are way better, just switch.I get otu and turn em on before the trail and get out and turn em off before the highway. No backing up, no unsureness. Simple. __________________ IFS IS FOR LOSERS Decroded Piece of Crap

12-17-2004, 07:15 PM	#37 (permalink)
Napoleon047 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 1,002	yeah, the ARB would be a much better choice, but if you are looking for ultimate cheapness, you could always weld the front diff and then put a solenoid on the vac line for the disconnect so you could disconnect it manually when turning. just another idea __________________ -Peter 86 4runner SAS - Trail Rig 94 FZJ80 - DD the dirt cheap SAS Marko Customs

12-18-2004, 03:01 PM	#39 (permalink)
Napoleon047 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 1,002	ok with the front welded up, the driver side tire will always be connected and thus turning the diff and the front driveshaft. the sliding collar that connects/disconnnects the passenger side tire to the diff is operated by vac. -on the street, you would have the vac disconnected, so the front tires can spin independently of each other. -off road, when in 4 wheel drive, the driver side tire will be the only one recieving power until you connect the passenger side tire. when connected, you have full power to both wheels. when it is disconnected, your turning will not be hindered because the passenger side tire can spin independently of the driver side one. i have seen this done on numerous jeeps because they too do not have manual hubs on the front. now, why is this better than a lunchbox locker up front? the welded front will not be ratcheting constantly on the street like the lunchbox would. the only thing is it will spin the front driveshaft. so, if your front driveline is in good condition and balanced, etc. it shouldnt give you any issues. __________________ -Peter 86 4runner SAS - Trail Rig 94 FZJ80 - DD the dirt cheap SAS Marko Customs

12-15-2004, 12:10 PM	#27 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,742	I got another response back indicating that they do make one for our model of vehicles, so I'm seriously considering this as a much more economical alternative to an ARB. Chris

12-15-2004, 03:42 PM	#32 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,257	What you are discussing merits another thread since it is now a thorough hi-jack. Read up and you will find the answer. Yes, drive flanges. I would run an ARB. Bruce does without manual hubs and it works well. ABQ Jim has a True-Trac. I have wheeled with him when it worked well and I have seen it let him down.

12-18-2004, 03:28 PM	#41 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,257	Sounds like a good way to reinvent the wheel. An ARB goes open diff to spool in the push of a button. By the time you spend the time and money homebrewing a kit like that being described, you will have a home brewed, likely half cocked addition to a 25k truck. 700 bucks for an ARB and you skin the cat the right way.

12-19-2004, 06:24 AM	#43 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,742	Very interesting! Thanks for the info! Chris

12-24-2004, 06:55 PM	#44 (permalink)
northfacer581 Contributing Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ASU in Boone....Charlotte is hometown Posts: 987	ok after reading through all the posts and information, im still a little bit confused. heres my deal. i have a very limited budget. im looking at getting a locker. i have a 2wd, and i want to be able to do more with it, and ive been told numerous times a rear locker is the way to go. having said that, what are my options, and what do you all think is the best way to go? also, i want to know how much it will help in the snow (if we even get much) __________________ -Andy 99 4runner 5speed Lift: 3" revtek & 2" body; swaybar discos; diff drop Performance: TRD s/c & 7th injector kit, deckplate closed, elbow removed, TMC 1.1, lock-rite in rear Protection: tjm15 w/ tabor 9k, custom sliders Shoes: 305/70/16 nitto terra graps on 16x8 helo maxx 6's Stuff: lots of lights on the surco, yakima big powderhound right now, shackle hangers, sony head unit, aux fuse box, full time power outlets, seat covers, and home of the herculiner mod