AxleIke

I have a question for you guys who know 4Runners in and out. I have seen many lift kits for 3rd gen runners for maybe 2 or as much as 3 inches of lift with just upgrading the front coil overs to stiffer springs and longer shocks. Why do i never see kits to convert a first gen to coil overs and do the same thing? I mean, for IFS first gens, because 3rd has the IFS too, why cant one just get some coil overs for a first gen, fit them, and be on your way with a couple of inches of lift? THanks, AxleIke.

DaveKerwin

If you are going to lift it, do a solid axle swap for the front and run a beefy drop hanger with wagoneer springs. You could fit any tire size you want, plus you will have lift and a solid axle. All you need is a junkyard and a buddy with a welder.

cabbage

I thought about converting from t-bars to coil overs, but I havent seen anyone that has done it. Might as well do a SAS, prob easier, so many writeups and easier to maintain...

Churnd

I thought of the same thing a while back:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...highlight=coil

If one were to try it, I think they'd be lucky if all it required was a different shock tower to bolt the top mount of the coil-over to. Otherwise, I think it'd take a large understanding about how a suspension works the way it does (physics and stuff) to match everything up right.

I'd still like to do it... but I just don't have the time to put the necessary research into it first. I would honestly pick this kind of modification over a SAS right now, because it seems like this way would be a lot cheaper and (hopefully) easier to do. At worst, you'd need new upper and lower control arms, along with the shocks.

AxleIke

Ive seen alot about SAS, but it seems to me that IFS is alot better for ride and off road. I mean, you are limited to how much you can lift it, but if you aren't looking for much more than a 2 or 3 inch lift, then it seems better to keep IFS. i thought IFS gave you better traction, and better control off road because each wheel is independent. Besides, the only kit ive see for a SAS is from ALL PRO, and it costs well over a grand. and that is w/out the axle. ANyway, thanks again. I'll look into it more with a toyota mechanic i know.

AxleIke

Robinhood150

If you're just looking for 2 inches, then just crank the torsion bars and add manual hubs. It does the same thing as a coil spacer lift and it's free. Alternatively, you can go with ball joint spacers.

Churnd

But it won't flex the same, will it?

Schaefer's progress with his ultimate coil-over lift has made me wish I had coil-overs myself.

What if you swapped in coil-overs along with the ball joint spacers? 4" lift right there, that has plenty of possibilities of being very off-road capable. Or is it not possible to do that?

Robinhood150

No, but it doesn't sound like Ike is looking for flex, just lift.

The articulation that the 3rd gens get is pretty good.

The limiting factor for lift isn't the shocks/springs but rather the CV angles and then maybe ball joints. You can get 4inches of lift by cranking the tbars and cutting the bumpstops (bjoint spacer may be needed too?) but your CVs aren't going to last long and the ride is going to suck. Most 3rd gens can't go much more than 3 inches without CV's boots breaking too.

In order to go 4 inches you need to lower the diff.

Robinhood150

Oh, and unless one is going to do baja style racing and lots of jumping, a coilover swap will most likely be too expensive and too time consuming to be practical. For the same cost one might as well do a SAS.

The way I see it, there are very few people on this board who are ready for a SAS. Schaefer and Flygenstein are a couple people who pop into mind. They seem to do just fine with ifs and have run some relatively hard trails around the country. A lot of people here need to fully explore the capabilities of their IFS before spending money on modifications whether it's sas or otherwise.

On the other hand, if one wants to experiment, I say go for it. Who knows, it might become embraced by the toyota community.

DaveKerwin

IFS sucks.

SAS is not expensive when you do it yourself. A junkyard axle is what... 100 bucks?
Then you have to buy used springs, drop hanger, and other misc things.

I would never throw money into an IFS system of a first gen, waste of money IMO. 80's toyotas need real suspension, axles!

AxleIke

Okay, so i can lift my truck without buying much, but i will lose flex? I am looking for flex, as i do a fair amount of offroad travel, here in Colorado, but also in Utah around Moab. I was wondering why you think IFS sucks Dave? I mean, from what i have heard (and i could have been listening to the wrong people for sure) is that for moderate lifts of 2 or 3 inches, IFS will give you better traction offroad than a solid axle. But, if you are looking for four or five or more inches, then a solid axle is the way to go.

I am interesed in the torsion bar adjustments and ball joint spacers, and i already have manual hubs. Why do i lose flex when i do this? How much flex are we talking about? My skill level off road is between moderate and difficult, as i have completed several difficult trails in both Colorado and Utah, but i am not looking to do any extreme rock crawling anytime soon. I agree with Robinhood in that i would like to explore my IFS before going to a solid axle, so those of you with IFS, what have you done with it as far as mods? Thanks
AxleIke

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

Schaefer has a whole link devoted to ball joint spacers on his site (pictures and all). He and I talked about it one day 'cuz I have 86 IFS. His take on it was to add the spacers, crank down the t-bars, and maintain the same height, but gain articulation and soften the front end. There is a group buy for the bj spacers right now and I'm tearing my hair out wether to go for the cheap immediate fix or to just hold out for the SAS... someday.

kyle_22r

if you know what you're doing, you can do an SAS much cheaper than that. it's all a matter of how much you build yourself, and what parts you use

a-arm ifs cannot flex as well as a straight axle, it's just a simple truth. when it is flexed out, the ground clearance decreases, whereas a solid axle's clearance increases with flex. the only thing that is superior about ifs is that it gives better handling on-road and at high speeds. the only kind of independant i've ever liked was ford's old TTB, which could flex and droop like a straight axle, but still behave like independant on the road. it's still well respected in desert racing, and i believe even ivan stewart's toyota ran a form of it at one time

deathrunner

I am getting ready (Saving dough) to put a coil over setup on my 1989 IFS 4runner . A company called JD Fabrication makes a kit. You can see it at www.protrux.net

Currently i have a trailmaster 4 inch kit. It sucks. Ride is stiff. It makes for good clearance. I loosened my tbars back to stock height. (A arms are almost parallel to the ground) It is still too stiff. I can barely get any front articulation.

The JD fab kit has 3 inch longer arms, so you can gain 2-3 inches of clearance. They move the wheel one inch forward so they don't rub on the body when tucked. They also allow you to use coilovers...unlike the total chaos long travel kit. AND they feature a uniball ball joint (Much stronger than a regular ball joint). The kit will make your front track width 6 inches wider (more stable). Longer T100 axles are needed to replace the stock ones.

My pros and cons are this

Pros
Wider wheel base
More ground clearance under axle
Softer ride than stock IFS (AND SA)
Longer arms create more leverage, so even with torsions more articulation will occur
Travel increase from 4 inches to thirteen
Choice of torsions(cheaper) or Coilover

Cons
Expensive 2250.00 just for the kit
Requires shock hoops (More money)
Requires glass Fenders (More money)
Probably won't flex as much as a SA (Who cares unless you're rock crawlin)

I've weighed the pros and cons and the big thing is money. But I want the best for my 4runner, so I'm saving up. I'll post pics when I get it finished. Probably mid to late summer. I'm going to use my Torsions at first then upgrade to Coilovers later.

I have a set of 1 year old Skyjacker 4 inch springs in the rear, I'll be replacing those with some nationals. So if any one wants some springs cheap and can wait till summer. Hit me up.

I though about getting the Total chaos kit (Also offered at protrux)but I found the JD kit to be far superior. Check out www.protrux.net I think it will open some eyes to IFS. I like What I've seen. Enough to sink 4-5,000 into my 4,500 truck

Flygtenstein

Steve, thanks for the respect.

Converting to coilover IFS would be pretty worthless IMHO. You will still have CV's, you will still have a 7.5" diff and you will still have IFS.

Right now with my torsion bar adjustor bolts completely released, as in no exposed thread, BJ spacers installed, and the correct length shocks but still 25mm torsion bars, my front is almost soft.

Quit crying about travel or lack there of. You need to completely use the window that is present which means stock bars, spacers, completely unloaded t-bars and perhaps air shocks. This will allow bumpstop to bumpstop travel.

Schaefer has his front end dialed in. That is a product of wheeling and tweaking on a regular basis to make what he has work. It is not an inherent result of coilovers.

Robinhood150

To get any significant improved articulation out of the tbar ifs you're going to have to spend lots of money, but the rewards aren't great. In my opinion money is best spent on armor, rear and front lockers and a dual transfer case, in that order. A locker makes up for the lack of articulation in all but the most extreme trails.

There are a few things that one can do to cheaply improve the tbar ifs...swaybar QDs, bumpstop trimming and cross linked air shocks. You can do a search for these things.

deathrunner

Long travel A Arms are the way....

Flygtenstein

They are a good way to piss away a substantial chunk of a swap, not be able to use off the shelf CV's and spend big bucks for fiberglass.

Why do you want more travel? What situations wheeling have held you up?

My truck, right now, works as good as it is going to. It wheels 8's, 9's and 4's across the southwest and in the land of Cheese. It rides decent, and all told, I have around $350 in it all told. It travels as much as IFS is going to in this form.

To get big performance, you have to spend big bucks. I would rather spend big bucks and end up with more strength, more travel and comparable ride.

deathrunner

I'm not knocking your mods...different strokes for different folks.
I just know how little my setup (Trailmaster lift, sway away tbars-not cranked up, and bilstein shocks) performs. I'm not happy with it. I merely want the flex in front to match the flex in back. My main motivation is to get rid of that tipsy feeling when in off camber situations. In the dunes in Glamis I feel like it will roll at any moment. Out in ocotillo it takes the whoops horribly. I have seen the Long travel kits do well in these situations. And by maintaining the IFS instead of switching to solid axle, my girlfriend doesn't have to wear a bra when we ride on the freeway....wooohoooo!!!!!
I like the idea of the balljoint spacers...I think that could provide a good bang for the buck. Even still I have broken my ball joints before when Wheeling. Upgrading to the uniball is just more peace of mind. And My dumb trailmaster lift isn't aligning anymore. Those are just my reasons. I understand long travel isn't the only solution....I just find it to be the best perfomring for my needs. I just wish I knew it existed sooner.

AxleIke

Question for you Robinhood. I've heard alot of hype about Dual Xfer cases, but i've never heard anyone who actually has one say anything about it, no good or bad. I was curious about your opinion. Thanks. AxleIke