Dual Battery Installation FAQ
12-14-2005, 03:56 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by MNBOY
I think this is bad advice. You had something else going on in your vehicle beyond "dueling batteries. Every boat I've owned, and every one I've done battery installations into, has had multiple batteries in one bank that were not isolated. My current boat has 2 big 8D sized AGM batteries that have been hooked together continuously for 4 years now with no issues. Match the size, type, and age of the multiple batteries and you should have no problems.
agreed...... an isolator or a solenoid is a good idea simply to seperate the batteries when everything is off so that if you drain one doing something then you wont drain the other........ thats all. i work in the RV industry and we install 2 batteries in just about everything and they last for years.
12-14-2005, 03:59 PM
#42
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has anyone installed a second alternator on their truck in addition to putting 2 batteries in???? my air compressors draw 60 amps right now and while the stock taco alternator can handle it i would rather have the peace of mind knowing that its being covered by either 2 alts or 1 reworked or beefy one. ive looked around at a few places and haven't found much.
12-14-2005, 04:19 PM
#44
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Just noticed this thread, so I will throw in another way of doing dual batteries...
When I got ready to do the install, I looked at the direct connection method, the switch method and the isolator method. All had flaws that made me less interested in them. After some searching, I found a solution that didn't have the problems associated with the other set ups and suited my needs nicely.
I have an Optima yellow top in the standard location and another Optima yellow top in a battery box, mounted to the floor behind the drivers seat, but where you mount the second battery is not critical, it could be in the engine compartment or bed just as easily. Then I wired in an "Isolator/Combiner" from Hellroaring. The Hellroaring system allows me to have the benefits of an isolator without the typical diode voltage drop, but with the flip of a micro switch I can also self jump.
Operation is simple. With the switch in the center position, the alternator charges both batteries, but they are isolated any time the main battery is not receiving a charge. This is the "automatic" position. With the switch flipped one direction, the aux battery is isolated completely from the system. With the switch in the other position, the batteries are combined for self jumping or cold starts.
I run the truck, stereo and winch off the main battery and things that get left on in camp, rocklights, cooler, inverter, compressor, etc off the aux battery. That way, if I flatten the aux battery in camp, I can start the rig and it charges back up. If I manage to kill the main battery, it's usually in a situation where the aux would be fully charged, so I can just flip a switch and jump myself.
Best of all, in the automatic position, there's no switch to have to remember to turn to charge the batteries or isolate them, it all happen automatically. This eliminated the drawbacks I saw with the other set ups and works GREAT for me
I will try to snap some pictures at some point for a write up on my site.
Here's the company that makes the Isolator/Combiner;
http://www.hellroaring.com/
http://www.hellroaring.com/bic75150.php
Mine is the BIC-95150B on that page.
When I got ready to do the install, I looked at the direct connection method, the switch method and the isolator method. All had flaws that made me less interested in them. After some searching, I found a solution that didn't have the problems associated with the other set ups and suited my needs nicely.
I have an Optima yellow top in the standard location and another Optima yellow top in a battery box, mounted to the floor behind the drivers seat, but where you mount the second battery is not critical, it could be in the engine compartment or bed just as easily. Then I wired in an "Isolator/Combiner" from Hellroaring. The Hellroaring system allows me to have the benefits of an isolator without the typical diode voltage drop, but with the flip of a micro switch I can also self jump.
Operation is simple. With the switch in the center position, the alternator charges both batteries, but they are isolated any time the main battery is not receiving a charge. This is the "automatic" position. With the switch flipped one direction, the aux battery is isolated completely from the system. With the switch in the other position, the batteries are combined for self jumping or cold starts.
I run the truck, stereo and winch off the main battery and things that get left on in camp, rocklights, cooler, inverter, compressor, etc off the aux battery. That way, if I flatten the aux battery in camp, I can start the rig and it charges back up. If I manage to kill the main battery, it's usually in a situation where the aux would be fully charged, so I can just flip a switch and jump myself.
Best of all, in the automatic position, there's no switch to have to remember to turn to charge the batteries or isolate them, it all happen automatically. This eliminated the drawbacks I saw with the other set ups and works GREAT for me
I will try to snap some pictures at some point for a write up on my site.Here's the company that makes the Isolator/Combiner;
http://www.hellroaring.com/
http://www.hellroaring.com/bic75150.php
Mine is the BIC-95150B on that page.
12-14-2005, 07:50 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by WATRD
Then I wired in an "Isolator/Combiner" from Hellroaring. The Hellroaring system allows me to have the benefits of an isolator without the typical diode voltage drop, but with the flip of a micro switch I can also self jump.
12-14-2005, 09:09 PM
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im going to tie my batteries together with a solenoid. wire it up to the run wire on the ignition harness and also put a switch in to manually tie the batteries together. this way both batteries will charge while the engine is running but be isolated when off. and also i can have the ability to jumpstart myself if anything goes wrong.....
12-14-2005, 09:59 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by linuxrunner
I am a little new to all this, but my question is, we had a diesel truck that had duel batteries stock. How does this work? Does starter use both batteries during start? And how does it charge both batteries? Mostly I want to know if I were to go to a junk yard and find a large diesel truck could I pull an isolator or solenoid? What makes these things work? Because if I could use an old one from the junk yard than I am all over this.
what I remember from my firend's cummins desiel was that it was a 24V system, so I guess they were ran in series....kinda like flashlight batteries in a way. Doubt theres a solenoid on something like that.
12-14-2005, 11:04 PM
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what I remember from my firend's cummins desiel was that it was a 24V system, so I guess they were ran in series....kinda like flashlight batteries in a way. Doubt theres a solenoid on something like that.
Last edited by linuxrunner; 12-24-2005 at 05:43 AM.
12-15-2005, 10:39 PM
#50
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Can someone fill me in on the difference between a red top, yellow top, and blue top and why you might one over the other in certain circumstances?
Thanks guys! Just tryin' to glom onto whatever info you'll throw my way
Thanks guys! Just tryin' to glom onto whatever info you'll throw my way
12-15-2005, 10:58 PM
#51
Info on the Optima web site:
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publi...utomotive.html
In summary:
RedTop=starting battery, high current but not deep cycle
YellowTop=Deep cycle battery, not as high a current but will work for starting
BlueTop=Marine battery, Basically is starting and deep cycle
What's the difference between starting and deep cycle?
Starting battery supplies high current, so the battery needs to have lots of thin layers of lead and electrolyte (either plates in a conventional battery or wound layers in an AGM battery like the Optima). Lots of thin layers = lots of surface area = lots of current for starting, winching, etc.
Deep cycle battery = lots of lead and electrolyte, thicker layers = more material for storing charge but also less surface area, so current output is less. But thicker lead/electolyte lets battery be deeply discharged and then recharged w/o damage and for more times before wearing out.
Marine battery or one that has high current and deep cycle features has different chemisty and slightly different construction. Chemistry changes allow for deep discharge and recharge like a deep cyycle but still maintains high current output. I run some marine-style batteries in my dial battery setup (link to page in an earlier post). They work fine, I've drained them (at least one of them anyways) dead many times and they come right back to life. They can run my on-board air compressor w/ engine off or the winch or even keep the engine operating when I switch my alternator over to welding mode. Marine batteries are usually totally sealed (my Black Panther batteries are fully metal jacketed) and they have brass terminals instead of lead posts.
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publi...utomotive.html
In summary:
RedTop=starting battery, high current but not deep cycle
YellowTop=Deep cycle battery, not as high a current but will work for starting
BlueTop=Marine battery, Basically is starting and deep cycle
What's the difference between starting and deep cycle?
Starting battery supplies high current, so the battery needs to have lots of thin layers of lead and electrolyte (either plates in a conventional battery or wound layers in an AGM battery like the Optima). Lots of thin layers = lots of surface area = lots of current for starting, winching, etc.
Deep cycle battery = lots of lead and electrolyte, thicker layers = more material for storing charge but also less surface area, so current output is less. But thicker lead/electolyte lets battery be deeply discharged and then recharged w/o damage and for more times before wearing out.
Marine battery or one that has high current and deep cycle features has different chemisty and slightly different construction. Chemistry changes allow for deep discharge and recharge like a deep cyycle but still maintains high current output. I run some marine-style batteries in my dial battery setup (link to page in an earlier post). They work fine, I've drained them (at least one of them anyways) dead many times and they come right back to life. They can run my on-board air compressor w/ engine off or the winch or even keep the engine operating when I switch my alternator over to welding mode. Marine batteries are usually totally sealed (my Black Panther batteries are fully metal jacketed) and they have brass terminals instead of lead posts.
Last edited by 4Crawler; 12-15-2005 at 11:09 PM.
05-05-2006, 07:33 PM
#52
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Just reading this thread and absorbing all the information. this is great and why yotatech kicks ass! anyone else with any other setups or info want to chime in?
05-09-2006, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sswearin1
Just reading this thread and absorbing all the information. this is great and why yotatech kicks ass! anyone else with any other setups or info want to chime in?
Last edited by zman2day; 05-09-2006 at 06:45 AM.
07-23-2006, 07:36 AM
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My system remains pretty much as I described, but I swapped in a Red Top for the main battery and kept a yellow top for the aux. With the Hellroaring system, you can do that. With solenoids and the like, it is recommend that you got with similarly aged, identical batteries.
I made the change to provide more amperage from the house battery for the winch. Since I very seldom, if ever, flatten the main battery, now that most of the accessories are on the aux, the Red Top made sense.
I also added an on board battery maintainer/trickle charger that can be plugged in and left on when the rig is parked for extended intervals. It's a 1.5 amp model and is smart enough to float the charge when needed and shut off when not. Because I use the Hellroaring system, the charger is attached to the main battery and when the main is fully charged, the Hellroaring box kicks in and allows the float charge to hit the aux battery as well. When the system is fully charged, the charger kicks off and allows the batteries to sit. When the main starts to drop a volt or two, it kicks back in and repeats the process automatically.
I also added a solar panel that will do the same thing when I am in the woods, but that is a story for another thread...
I made the change to provide more amperage from the house battery for the winch. Since I very seldom, if ever, flatten the main battery, now that most of the accessories are on the aux, the Red Top made sense.
I also added an on board battery maintainer/trickle charger that can be plugged in and left on when the rig is parked for extended intervals. It's a 1.5 amp model and is smart enough to float the charge when needed and shut off when not. Because I use the Hellroaring system, the charger is attached to the main battery and when the main is fully charged, the Hellroaring box kicks in and allows the float charge to hit the aux battery as well. When the system is fully charged, the charger kicks off and allows the batteries to sit. When the main starts to drop a volt or two, it kicks back in and repeats the process automatically.
I also added a solar panel that will do the same thing when I am in the woods, but that is a story for another thread...
07-28-2006, 09:25 AM
#57
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Zman and I just finished hooking up my "quad" battery setup in my truck. While I have 4 batteries it would be setup no differently than any dual battery setups. I have a diesel and it apparently takes about a 1KW to get the sucker running so they use two "starting" 750 cranking amp batteries from the factory. My "aux" deep cycle batteries are two 6v golf cart batteries. We have two electric boats as well as a 3 row golf cart at work so my boss has become an Interstate dealer and he recommended the U2200 because he has had good luck with them. For more info on interstate batteries like the ones I got Click Here The ones I ended up with are model# U2200, are they total overkill or is that about right for a weekend of charging cameras, powering a laptop? They are 6v so I am running two of them in series - to + to create 12v. I have yet to do a full cycle to see how long they last but I will let you guys know after the first couple cycles while on the road 
Now, enough about the batteries...
Zman suggested getting the dual battery setup offered by 12voltguy . It comes with everything you need including battery cables, zip ties etc. etc. He has all kinds of products from winch switches to dual batt setups. I won't show the schematic to protect his products but I'm sure you electrical guys can figure it out if you wanted. The switch has three positions On (green) which charges both banks of batteries when the engine is running and isolates the accessory batteries when the ignition is off. There is Off position which Isolates the accessory batteries and acts like stock. Then there is On (red) which is an emergency setting that puts the two banks together for added cranking power ie, if you killed one battery while winching etc. just flip the switch and away you go.
As far as mounting goes I couldn't stand the huge chrome plate he included which will work for some dash boards, but I decided to drill and mount the switch/led directly to the dash.
**Note the knob on the left is for my switchable ECU/Chip, its not a part of the dual battery setup**
It's not a bad deal, especially since I'm seeing solenoids for $130!? Darren is a fellow off-roader and stands by his products 100%. If you have any snags along the install process he is happy to help you out either by email or by phone. He also includes directions as well as a schematic of everything and how it works. I'll try and get more pics up in the next couple days as well...
Now, enough about the batteries...
Zman suggested getting the dual battery setup offered by 12voltguy . It comes with everything you need including battery cables, zip ties etc. etc. He has all kinds of products from winch switches to dual batt setups. I won't show the schematic to protect his products but I'm sure you electrical guys can figure it out if you wanted. The switch has three positions On (green) which charges both banks of batteries when the engine is running and isolates the accessory batteries when the ignition is off. There is Off position which Isolates the accessory batteries and acts like stock. Then there is On (red) which is an emergency setting that puts the two banks together for added cranking power ie, if you killed one battery while winching etc. just flip the switch and away you go.
As far as mounting goes I couldn't stand the huge chrome plate he included which will work for some dash boards, but I decided to drill and mount the switch/led directly to the dash.
**Note the knob on the left is for my switchable ECU/Chip, its not a part of the dual battery setup**
It's not a bad deal, especially since I'm seeing solenoids for $130!? Darren is a fellow off-roader and stands by his products 100%. If you have any snags along the install process he is happy to help you out either by email or by phone. He also includes directions as well as a schematic of everything and how it works. I'll try and get more pics up in the next couple days as well...
Last edited by turboale; 07-29-2006 at 07:58 AM.
07-30-2006, 07:03 AM
#58
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ok im going to do dual batterie setup with the solonoid i need it only for winching and i have 4 off road lights.
1) i do + to - right?
2) and what do i need to look for when buying a solonoid. like are there diffrent ratings?
3) in this setup with the 2nd batt off it will be normal system? and with the swich on i will have the second batterie and the normal batterie for winching and the second batterie will also be getting charged with the swich on??
sorry if i am repeating other people
1) i do + to - right?
2) and what do i need to look for when buying a solonoid. like are there diffrent ratings?
3) in this setup with the 2nd batt off it will be normal system? and with the swich on i will have the second batterie and the normal batterie for winching and the second batterie will also be getting charged with the swich on??
sorry if i am repeating other people
07-30-2006, 07:12 AM
#59
Parallel = + to + and - to -.
Solenoid, min. 200 amps, continuous duty rating.
More info on my web page:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...atteries.shtml
Solenoid, min. 200 amps, continuous duty rating.
More info on my web page:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...atteries.shtml
07-30-2006, 03:14 PM
#60
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Well with the setup I posted you can hook it up two ways.
You can either connect all your accessories to the 2nd batteries and use the primary for just for starting (the way I have mine setup because my starting batteries are not deep cycle and acc batteries are) or if you have two yellow tops like a lot of guys are doing I would suggest hooking it up where everything is hooked up to the primary battery and then whenever it goes dead you switch it into "emergency" and virtually jump the primary battery with the 2nd battery and you know the 2nd battery is fully charged.
Does that make sense?
You can either connect all your accessories to the 2nd batteries and use the primary for just for starting (the way I have mine setup because my starting batteries are not deep cycle and acc batteries are) or if you have two yellow tops like a lot of guys are doing I would suggest hooking it up where everything is hooked up to the primary battery and then whenever it goes dead you switch it into "emergency" and virtually jump the primary battery with the 2nd battery and you know the 2nd battery is fully charged.
Does that make sense?
