cruiser coils and panhard

Robinhood150 · 10-02-2004, 12:29 AM

What did you guys do with the panhard? Make a bracket? Trim the gas tank skid to clear the d-shaft? buy a used downey bracket from somebody? Ignore it?

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Cebby · 10-02-2004, 04:12 AM

Taking it skyward Steve?

Flygtenstein · 10-02-2004, 06:40 AM

I have a Downey bracket and need another couple of inches.

Thankfully another solution is brewing, but I am not sure it will help you guys.

Call 4Wheel Parts and ask for a Pro-Crap one. They have sold it ala carte before.

Right now I rub on my tank because my skid is custom. This is with a skinnier shaft and some super long shocks. I would beat your tank, trim your skid, think about a new shaft, and pray for a rod adjustment option.

Robinhood150 · 10-02-2004, 09:38 AM

You guys are a bad influence...all this talk of lifting has got me thinking. Next thing you know, I'll be looking for a 3.4L and a T100 tranny! Actually, I picked up a used confer transfer case skid plate from leo for $40. It bolts to the stock tranfer case crossmember so I loose groundclearance. This past weekend I went out with some xterras near the rubicon and got to test out my lockers and the skid plate.

Let me tell you, that skid plate is a plow! I hit everything under the sun, but like Leo said, I didn't care what I hit because everything down there is protected. Here's what it looks like:

So I need a lift!

Mike, what are you doing about the panhard? Adrian, I forgot about the pro comp one. Looking forward to seeing your next evolution.

Cebby · 10-02-2004, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinhood150

Mike, what are you doing about the panhard? Adrian, I forgot about the pro comp one. Looking forward to seeing your next evolution.

I think I will make an adjustable one or an S-curve like Steve S's. I haven't gotten that far yet...

Flygtenstein · 10-02-2004, 11:42 AM

If Steve makes one I will buy one.

If I get time I will make one.

If I get money, I will ask someone who knows what they are doing to make one.

The panhard stuff is not just a length thing. People have been getting the best results out of drops or bent rods, not lengthened rods. I will not claim to know or understand the math or engineering behind it, but it seems a parallel rod is better. As such, look for a drop that will make it parallel, the AP raise that will make it parallel, or make a snake bar.

Steve, there will be nothing too exciting in the next evolution. I am on the move and in need of dough, so a solid axle is a little ways off. Only time will tell though as I get closer to friends with welders and time.

RobG · 10-06-2004, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinhood150

What did you guys do with the panhard? Make a bracket? Trim the gas tank skid to clear the d-shaft? buy a used downey bracket from somebody? Ignore it?

Steve,

I made a pan hard drop bracket that lowers the rod by 5" and an adjustable proportioning valve lift bracket. I did this primarily to keep the driveshaft out of the gas tank and it seems to work (only 1 hard trail run). I originally had about 4" of lift from the cruiser coils I think that that has settled out to about 3.5 after a few months. Probably be less for you with the added rear bumper weight.

I have more a problem with the passenger side upper control arm hitting the tank than the drive shaft at this point but it doesn’t seem to hurt anything.

Hope that helps.

Rob

anthony1 · 10-06-2004, 02:40 PM

the main problem is the pan hard bar on 2nd gen swing toward the gas tank. If Toyota design the rod to swing the other way, there wouldn't be a problem. On the third gen, they mount it the opposite way but then, they also moved the tank to the other side so.... :pat:
when you add the pan hard rod extension, it keeps the d-shaft center in level ground but when it comes to keeping off the gas tank, you're not doing a whole lot. Sure, it moved it further but when it articulate, it still swing towards the tank. all you're doing there is changing the position where on the tank it will hit.

If you look at Jeep Liberty rear, they use a triangulate link for the upper links.

I even looked into a different kinds of link to keep the d-shaft in the center like watts linkage.
I ran a smaller double carden d-shaft but it still hit. I end up moving the tank to the back ....all problems solved.

Cebby · 10-06-2004, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthony1

I end up moving the tank to the back ....all problems solved.

Do you have any pics of this? How difficult was it? Did you have to reroute your exhaust?

anthony1 · 10-06-2004, 04:41 PM

The exhaust was reroute a little but not much....
I have some pics but not loaded to a website yet...

Cebby · 10-06-2004, 04:49 PM

Could you email a few pics and I'll stick them in this thread (or start a new one for that).

If you will, EM to cebby@yotatech.com

Thanks!!

anthony1 · 10-07-2004, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cebby

Could you email a few pics and I'll stick them in this thread (or start a new one for that).

If you will, EM to cebby@yotatech.com

Thanks!!

here's some pics..
http://home.earthlink.net/~audiorat1/images/gastank/

Scottz · 10-07-2004, 09:10 PM

Nice job on the new gas tank location. I've had my 4Runner up on a lift and was looking at doing something just like that but wasn't sure if it would work.

Cebby · 10-08-2004, 07:12 AM

Thanks for the pics Anthony. How long did the switcheroo take?

anthony1 · 10-08-2004, 12:10 PM

well, to be perfectly honest, I didnt' do the job myself. It's beyond my intelect as far as gas tank and how it works. I had it done by a mechanic/fab person. He did a good job.
I don't know how long it took cause I droped the truck off and went on vacation for 10 days. When I came back, it was done.

Flygtenstein · 10-11-2004, 06:36 PM

Just to bump this and offer a new opinion.

I now have my rear pretty dialed in. The links perfectly center the tire, the only rubbing is tire to frame and there is no gas tank and driveshaft issue.

This comes from a new heimed panhard that is longer, but still straight combined with the Downey drop, a bent upper to get around the tank, and a cut gas tank. Peep some of the Moab pics and see how it looks. Lots of rear steer, but lots of droop and stability. I like it alot.

RobG · 10-12-2004, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flygtenstein

This comes from a new heimed panhard that is longer, but still straight combined with the Downey drop, a bent upper to get around the tank, and a cut gas tank. Peep some of the Moab pics and see how it looks. Lots of rear steer, but lots of droop and stability. I like it alot.

Sounds like you have it. Although I'm not sure I understand what everything does when put together. Looked for pictures in the Moab thread didn’t see any that were very telling. A few questions if you don’t mind.

Upper Arm – Did you bend the OEM uppers, make from scratch, or buy them? Factory style ends or rod ends like AP’s? Did you do both to keep them symmetric? Will you tell the magic dimensions?

Pan Hard Rod – How much did you lengthen it? What do the Hemis do, allow each side to move forward and backward independently (axel pivot around the Z axis)? If so, isn’t this harder on the upper and lower links? Rear steer is only off road when articulating, or do you notice it on the road or flat surfaces as well?

Pan Hard Drop Bracket – My pan hard drop is longer than most, making the pan hard rod horizontal and moving the Driveshaft away from the tank. I’ve been thinking of making an offset bracket next, a simpler alternative for me than lengthening the rod, to keep the driveshaft further off the tank. Does this sound feasible?

Sorry to be a pest, whatever info you want to share would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Rob

Flygtenstein · 10-12-2004, 02:57 PM

Lower arms are custom with heims on one end and Rubicon Flex joints on the other.

Uppers are heimed at each end, one is straight, one is bent to get around the tank.

I have no pics of the links, only of the results.

The panhard was a crime of necessity, something like 1/2" longer than stock with a heim and a stock joint.

RobG · 10-14-2004, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flygtenstein

Lower arms are custom with heims on one end and Rubicon Flex joints on the other.

Uppers are heimed at each end, one is straight, one is bent to get around the tank.

I have no pics of the links, only of the results.

The panhard was a crime of necessity, something like 1/2" longer than stock with a heim and a stock joint.

Adrian,

Thanks for all the info, including your original Cruiser Coil threads. Thanks in a large part to you, my rear suspension is the best mod I have done to my truck.

I think I will also make a curved upper control arm some time in the future. For now I hit the tank but it doesn’t seem to be hurting anything and there are lots of other areas needing attention more that the rear. Rubicon Flex Joints look interesting; I may give that a try as well.

Thanks,

Rob

Flygtenstein · 10-14-2004, 05:52 PM

The only problem with them is they take 9/16's hardware which is first, an odd size, and second, not 5/8's. My mounts are now beefed with a plate that necks down.

If you are serious about uppers, I still have the one that was not used because of the bent one that has one heim. It is adjustable from stock to 1.5" over.

Mad Chemist · 10-14-2004, 09:31 PM

I'm not sure I understand the engineering either, but it seems like there shouldn't be a difference between a bent rod and a straight rod. The distance between the pivot points on the axle and on the panhard bracket should be exactly the same in either case, if the axle is centered under the vehicle. If you compared the length of a straight bar and the length between the two heims on a bent bar (in a straight line, ignoring the s-curve, they should be the same). As far as drop bracket versus a lengthened bar (S or straight), there is a difference due to the upper pivot point being lowered by three inches relative to the stock location. Does this make sense or is am I talking out my ass? I've yet to anything after the lift, but am thinking about a longer rod at the moment (huh, huh huh huh, huh, I said "rod").

Flygtenstein · 10-15-2004, 06:06 AM

The geometry is pretty straightforward about hypotenuse extension, but there seems to be more than that. There is roll axis and another thing that escapes me that also influence how the truck wheels and does or does not rub.

I would drop it to get it in the ball park and then see what added length would do.

Robinhood150 · 10-15-2004, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Chemist

I'm not sure I understand the engineering either, but it seems like there shouldn't be a difference between a bent rod and a straight rod. The distance between the pivot points on the axle and on the panhard bracket should be exactly the same in either case, if the axle is centered under the vehicle. If you compared the length of a straight bar and the length between the two heims on a bent bar (in a straight line, ignoring the s-curve, they should be the same).

Yup, you're right. As far as how the suspension moves a straight or bent panhard doesn't make a difference as long as they're the same length. The only reason you would need to put a bend in it is if you need clearance or you want the rod ends in a certain orientation. A bent rod will also flex more.

RobG · 10-15-2004, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flygtenstein

If you are serious about uppers, I still have the one that was not used because of the bent one that has one heim. It is adjustable from stock to 1.5" over.

Not sure what you have ?
- A Rubicon SuperFlex Joint ?
- An OEM Uper Arm ?
- An AP Upper Arm ?
- A custom upper arm ?

I'm a little slow.

Cebby · 10-15-2004, 09:36 AM

I think he has Spidertrax arms.

10-02-2004, 04:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cebby Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,246	Taking it skyward Steve? __________________ UZswap.com A site dedicated to sharing info for swapping the Toyota/ Lexus UZ (V8) engines into Toyota Trucks and 4Runners. My 4Runner 1993 4Runner, 1UZ (V8) auto dual ultimate crawler, double locked, 35's on beadlocked SR5 alloys, low lift, hacked fenders, tubbed firewall, custom armor TOOLandFAB.com A discussion forum dedicated to tools, fabrication & workshops. See my JD2 Bender Hydro Conversion BUY THIS 2008 CALENDAR

10-02-2004, 09:38 AM	#4 (permalink)
Robinhood150 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wandering around Phoenix Posts: 6,043	You guys are a bad influence...all this talk of lifting has got me thinking. Next thing you know, I'll be looking for a 3.4L and a T100 tranny! Actually, I picked up a used confer transfer case skid plate from leo for $40. It bolts to the stock tranfer case crossmember so I loose groundclearance. This past weekend I went out with some xterras near the rubicon and got to test out my lockers and the skid plate. Let me tell you, that skid plate is a plow! I hit everything under the sun, but like Leo said, I didn't care what I hit because everything down there is protected. Here's what it looks like: So I need a lift! Mike, what are you doing about the panhard? Adrian, I forgot about the pro comp one. Looking forward to seeing your next evolution. __________________ Steve. '93 4Runner V6 Auto 4x4 Robinhood's Lair. \|\| Gettin' Off 4wd Club member Lots for sale:5.29 ARB IFS third member... Click Sierra Club policy: [A reason to close trails] ...Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and fish habitat... Lesson...Stay on the TRAIL!

10-06-2004, 02:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
anthony1 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: torrance, CA. Posts: 976	the main problem is the pan hard bar on 2nd gen swing toward the gas tank. If Toyota design the rod to swing the other way, there wouldn't be a problem. On the third gen, they mount it the opposite way but then, they also moved the tank to the other side so.... :pat: when you add the pan hard rod extension, it keeps the d-shaft center in level ground but when it comes to keeping off the gas tank, you're not doing a whole lot. Sure, it moved it further but when it articulate, it still swing towards the tank. all you're doing there is changing the position where on the tank it will hit. If you look at Jeep Liberty rear, they use a triangulate link for the upper links. I even looked into a different kinds of link to keep the d-shaft in the center like watts linkage. I ran a smaller double carden d-shaft but it still hit. I end up moving the tank to the back ....all problems solved. __________________ http://www.angelfire.com/ca6/954runner GOD's Country Best Seen In A 4 Runner. SAS front: lf,ARB,Ml4",Marlin arms, rear: cable elock,APlinks,OEmu860,35MT/R 5spd, 4:1. ..."But officer, that was not an illegal turn, it was just an undocumented turn." Last edited by anthony1; 10-06-2004 at 02:46 PM.

10-06-2004, 04:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
anthony1 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: torrance, CA. Posts: 976	The exhaust was reroute a little but not much.... I have some pics but not loaded to a website yet... __________________ http://www.angelfire.com/ca6/954runner GOD's Country Best Seen In A 4 Runner. SAS front: lf,ARB,Ml4",Marlin arms, rear: cable elock,APlinks,OEmu860,35MT/R 5spd, 4:1. ..."But officer, that was not an illegal turn, it was just an undocumented turn."

10-06-2004, 04:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
Cebby Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,246	Could you email a few pics and I'll stick them in this thread (or start a new one for that). If you will, EM to cebby@yotatech.com Thanks!! __________________ UZswap.com A site dedicated to sharing info for swapping the Toyota/ Lexus UZ (V8) engines into Toyota Trucks and 4Runners. My 4Runner 1993 4Runner, 1UZ (V8) auto dual ultimate crawler, double locked, 35's on beadlocked SR5 alloys, low lift, hacked fenders, tubbed firewall, custom armor TOOLandFAB.com A discussion forum dedicated to tools, fabrication & workshops. See my JD2 Bender Hydro Conversion BUY THIS 2008 CALENDAR

10-02-2004, 06:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	I have a Downey bracket and need another couple of inches. Thankfully another solution is brewing, but I am not sure it will help you guys. Call 4Wheel Parts and ask for a Pro-Crap one. They have sold it ala carte before. Right now I rub on my tank because my skid is custom. This is with a skinnier shaft and some super long shocks. I would beat your tank, trim your skid, think about a new shaft, and pray for a rod adjustment option.

10-02-2004, 11:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	If Steve makes one I will buy one. If I get time I will make one. If I get money, I will ask someone who knows what they are doing to make one. The panhard stuff is not just a length thing. People have been getting the best results out of drops or bent rods, not lengthened rods. I will not claim to know or understand the math or engineering behind it, but it seems a parallel rod is better. As such, look for a drop that will make it parallel, the AP raise that will make it parallel, or make a snake bar. Steve, there will be nothing too exciting in the next evolution. I am on the move and in need of dough, so a solid axle is a little ways off. Only time will tell though as I get closer to friends with welders and time.

10-07-2004, 09:10 PM	#13 (permalink)
Scottz Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 228	Nice job on the new gas tank location. I've had my 4Runner up on a lift and was looking at doing something just like that but wasn't sure if it would work.

10-08-2004, 07:12 AM	#14 (permalink)
Cebby Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,246	Thanks for the pics Anthony. How long did the switcheroo take? __________________ UZswap.com A site dedicated to sharing info for swapping the Toyota/ Lexus UZ (V8) engines into Toyota Trucks and 4Runners. My 4Runner 1993 4Runner, 1UZ (V8) auto dual ultimate crawler, double locked, 35's on beadlocked SR5 alloys, low lift, hacked fenders, tubbed firewall, custom armor TOOLandFAB.com A discussion forum dedicated to tools, fabrication & workshops. See my JD2 Bender Hydro Conversion BUY THIS 2008 CALENDAR

10-08-2004, 12:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
anthony1 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: torrance, CA. Posts: 976	well, to be perfectly honest, I didnt' do the job myself. It's beyond my intelect as far as gas tank and how it works. I had it done by a mechanic/fab person. He did a good job. I don't know how long it took cause I droped the truck off and went on vacation for 10 days. When I came back, it was done. __________________ http://www.angelfire.com/ca6/954runner GOD's Country Best Seen In A 4 Runner. SAS front: lf,ARB,Ml4",Marlin arms, rear: cable elock,APlinks,OEmu860,35MT/R 5spd, 4:1. ..."But officer, that was not an illegal turn, it was just an undocumented turn."

10-11-2004, 06:36 PM	#16 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	Just to bump this and offer a new opinion. I now have my rear pretty dialed in. The links perfectly center the tire, the only rubbing is tire to frame and there is no gas tank and driveshaft issue. This comes from a new heimed panhard that is longer, but still straight combined with the Downey drop, a bent upper to get around the tank, and a cut gas tank. Peep some of the Moab pics and see how it looks. Lots of rear steer, but lots of droop and stability. I like it alot.

10-12-2004, 02:57 PM	#18 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	Lower arms are custom with heims on one end and Rubicon Flex joints on the other. Uppers are heimed at each end, one is straight, one is bent to get around the tank. I have no pics of the links, only of the results. The panhard was a crime of necessity, something like 1/2" longer than stock with a heim and a stock joint.

10-14-2004, 05:52 PM	#20 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	The only problem with them is they take 9/16's hardware which is first, an odd size, and second, not 5/8's. My mounts are now beefed with a plate that necks down. If you are serious about uppers, I still have the one that was not used because of the bent one that has one heim. It is adjustable from stock to 1.5" over.

10-14-2004, 09:31 PM	#21 (permalink)
Mad Chemist Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,878	I'm not sure I understand the engineering either, but it seems like there shouldn't be a difference between a bent rod and a straight rod. The distance between the pivot points on the axle and on the panhard bracket should be exactly the same in either case, if the axle is centered under the vehicle. If you compared the length of a straight bar and the length between the two heims on a bent bar (in a straight line, ignoring the s-curve, they should be the same). As far as drop bracket versus a lengthened bar (S or straight), there is a difference due to the upper pivot point being lowered by three inches relative to the stock location. Does this make sense or is am I talking out my ass? I've yet to anything after the lift, but am thinking about a longer rod at the moment (huh, huh huh huh, huh, I said "rod"). __________________ -David '98 4Runner: SAW/OME lift, TJM bumper, Warn M8000 winch, Hayden tranny cooler, Trail Carnage front and belly skid plates, PIAA fogs, Rock lights, 33" MT's on Tech1 Rockcrawler rims, Lars sway bar discos, Sonoran bumpstops and rear bumper, RB 1" body lift, Daystar front bumpstops '73 FJ40: 327 SBC, York, Dual Batteries, custom tire carrier, Corbeau Baja SS bucket seats, Bestop top. TLCA#14428

10-15-2004, 06:06 AM	#22 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	The geometry is pretty straightforward about hypotenuse extension, but there seems to be more than that. There is roll axis and another thing that escapes me that also influence how the truck wheels and does or does not rub. I would drop it to get it in the ball park and then see what added length would do.

10-15-2004, 09:36 AM	#25 (permalink)
Cebby Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,246	I think he has Spidertrax arms. __________________ UZswap.com A site dedicated to sharing info for swapping the Toyota/ Lexus UZ (V8) engines into Toyota Trucks and 4Runners. My 4Runner 1993 4Runner, 1UZ (V8) auto dual ultimate crawler, double locked, 35's on beadlocked SR5 alloys, low lift, hacked fenders, tubbed firewall, custom armor TOOLandFAB.com A discussion forum dedicated to tools, fabrication & workshops. See my JD2 Bender Hydro Conversion BUY THIS 2008 CALENDAR

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