jwahaus

My '02 Tacoma has bit the dust. RIP So I must now decide on what
options on an '05.

I'm leaning twards the LSD over the diff. locker because I think it will be more
useful most of the time.

The diff. locker on my 02 could only be engaged while in Low-4 and I
very soldom ever used it. (and even when I did use it I didn't really need it)

While in 2WD, however the 02 had very poor traction in the rain so I usually
went to 4WD when it was raining. I'm thinking with a LSD the 2WD traction
in the rain will be much better and 4WD will not be needed most of the time.

What are your thoughts on this? What would you choose and why?


Cheers

Ironmike4x4

Isn't there a way to bypass the locker in Lo? I thought you could do the "grey wire" mod and have it work in any of the selections.

Tofer

i have heard that too, if i remember right i think you ground out one of the wires... do a serach and you should find something on it

jwahaus

Even still, I don't think you would want to drive around in the city with the
diff. locker engaged in the rain.

LittleRedToyota

if you don't take your truck offroad regularly, definitely get the limited-slip...not even a question. lockers are specifically meant for use in difficult offroad situations. they don't really have any use on the road at all.

the limited slip will still allow your wheels to turn at different speeds while going around a corner (which is the whole point of having a differential)...the locker, when engaged, will not.

you don't have to engage the limited slip...if one wheel starts spinning, it will automatically send torque to the other wheel as needed.

btw, engaging 4wd on pavement, even if it's wet, is not such a good idea...it causes binding in the driveline and will kill your transfer case over time.

what happened to your 2002? that's a pretty early death for a yota.

jwahaus

Won't a LSD also work well off-road? Likely not as well as a locker if
your stuck in the mud but I'm thinking it will still provide much improved
traction off-road.

I've heard mixed info on this. Toyota certainly does not mention not using
4WD on wet pavement. On the highway I would switch to 2WD but around
town in the rain I would run with 4WD on with no problems.

A guy in a small chevy ran through a stop sign (didn't even attempt to slow
down) and hit my truck in the drivers side door at about 40-50MPH. The
impact flipped my truck onto it side. The frame was bent and all the
panels were damaged.

I managed to walk away from it with only a few bruises and scrapes. I count
myself lucky.

LittleRedToyota

yes, absolutely. i did not mean to imply that LSDs don't help tremendously offroad (though not as much as a locker in many situations). you just said you drive mostly on the road, so i was focusing on that.


here is what happens...when going around turns, your front diff turns at a different speed than your rear diff (because they follow different paths--and travel different distances in the same amount of time) .

in addition, as your tires wear, they don't all wear at exactly the same rate which means they are not all exactly the same size...thus, they turn at different speeds...thus, your diffs turn at different speeds.

when 4x4 is engaged the front diff and rear diff are essentially physically locked together via the driveshafts adn transfer case. thus, when they want to turn at different speeds, one of two thigs has to happen. either one or more tires slip so that either the front or rear diff can turn faster to "catch up" to the other one. or the dirveline binds (in the transfer case).

on pavement, even when wet, there is too much traction for a tire to slip, so the transfer case binds. you might not notice anything for several years, but, eventually it will wear out your t-case.

i'm surprised toyota does not say anything in the owner's manual or on that little 4x4 card in driver's visor.

if, however, the transfer case has a differential in it, then it is OK for the front and rear diff to turn at different speeds. this is called full-time 4wd or all-wheel-drive. but that is not good for offroad--unless that diff has a locker and can be locked like a part-time 4wd system.

i don't think toyota ever put a full-time 4wd system in their trucks...maybe i'm wrong about that, though.

glad to hear you weren't hurt in that wreck...must of scared the crap outta ya. i hope the insurance company treated you fairly...

Rivalred

Just rememeber, depending on what model you get, one has a Mechanical LSD and the other has a Pseudo LSD.

I went with SR5 Package #8 SJ Towing Package with Mechanical Limited Slip, but I have a PreRunner also.

Silver_Truck

Don't 05s have traction and VSC? If so then you already have an electronic limited slip in every model? I'd get the locker and let the electronics do their thing in the rain. What kind of tires were you running? I know that trucks have worse traction in the rain due to less wait over rear wheels but I'm running non-siped swampers and still don't have much of any problems in the rain; uphill, downhill, accel, braking. I can't just floor it and try to accelerate fast. but why would I want to, I drive a truck

jwahaus

They come standard with "4-wheel Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) with Electronic
Brake-force Distribution (EBD) and Brake Assist".

The Stability Control is a $900 option and includes an "automatic LSD".
I would expect they are using the brakes to force traction to the wheels
that are not turning when a wheel starts spinning. This is not exactly
an LSD but has a similar effect. I think I would much rather have a
real LSD (which they offer with some packages)

The tires that came with the truck were really bad in the rain and it was
almost impossible to pull out into traffic (at a brisk pase) without spinning
the real wheels (in 2WD). In 4WD you could stomp the gas and no worries.
When I replaced the tires with BFG A/T's they were much better in the rain
but were still pretty easy to spin when pulling out from a stop and turning.

I'm thinking the LSD is just what is needed to feel safe in the rain in 2WD.
I do take the truck off-road on occasion but I'm not the sort of person
to seek out the deepest mud hole I can find.

jwahaus

That is exactly what I'm likely going to get (SR5 Pkg. #8) double cab LB.
I would like larger tires and may even look into getting the wheels/tires
off my old truck, they were 265/75-16 BFG A/T's and were only a few
months old. The wheels got a little scratched up but not too bad. I wonder
what the Insurance company will sell them to me for?

Also, I bet there are more than a few people here that might want a
supercharged 3.4L engine with only 54K miles on it. I think the engine
is still in good shape, the damage was mainly just the body panels. You
can usualy buy back your totaled vehicle pretty cheep but maybe not
in this case. They are giving me $3100 just for the supercharger w/inj.
alone so I'll expect they will want to make some money on the parts they
can salvage.

jwahaus

It is pretty weird, I wasn't scared at all, even when the truck was flipping
over. Surprised yes, but for some reason I never felt that I
was going to be injured. I got a little paranoid being trapped in the cab.
My exit door was the door that got hit and was above me after the wreck.
A dude that saw the accident climbed up onto my truck and helped me
get the door open so I could climb out.

The insurance company is going to give me a pretty good settlement. Enough
to buy the same truck again and supercharge it. But, since I now must buy
another truck I'm considering all my options. Even though the '05 will not
have the same performance as my '02 I like the extra room. The 4.0L
engine has about the same amount of torque as a supercharged 3.4L. It
lacks the peak HP but I can live with that (at least until the superchargers
for the 4.0L come out).

CynicX

an LSD is pretty much useless offroad. If you get one rear tire off the ground and LSD will not be able to over power the weight of the vehicle.

I mean its better then nothing but you will wear the clutches out in a LSD pretty quick offroad. This is why its called a Limited Slip Diff, there is still gonna be slip. While a locker, well you get my point.

My experience with this comes from my roomates and my jeeps. He had a stock sahara rear d44 that came with a LSD. I Jeep Sport with a built super 35 kit with detroit locker. In the snow with the LSD was ok with 4x4 on (you get side stepping in the snow since both wheels are spinning unless you have 4x4 on) but off road it was laughable, on the rocks at least. Year or so later he got an ARB selectable and he could keep up with me on the trail.

I guess in the mud it helped him a little. Oh when East Coast Off Highway pulled his rear end apart he said his LSD was toast, the clutches have been burned out in them for a while and it wasnt doing anything. It was an 01 Jeep and this was in 03. Although abused that still doesnt seem like a long time.

I wouldnt have a LSD in anything except for a sports car or sports truck 2wd. Just things I wanted traction on the street for...

CynicX

oh and as far as safety I'm gonna need you to use your imagination....

when you have an open diff and you "peel out" one tire spins. The other tire remains stationary. This stationary tire keeps the rear end from "side stepping".

Side stepping is when the rear end wants to come around. Its like doing a donut in a parking lot. Its alot easier to do with a vehicle with an LSD since with both wheels spinning you have 0 tractions.

In the snow this is even worse since you dont need to be pulling from a stop to get the tires to spin. You can just be driving down the road.

I had an S10 back in the day with a stock LSD and I could even drive it in the snow. Of course this was a 4x2 so what can you expect. I never owned a 4x4 with LSD.

Anyway as far as safety goes I believe the LSD will give you a bit more traction but if anything it makes it a little more dangerous. I not saying its a death trap but the LSD wont add to safety. Well unless you are in a 18 wheelers way in the snow and you need to go any direction fast. heheh cause that happens alot..

jwahaus

I live in Georgia so we don't get a lot of snow. It did snow once last winter
and we got a good 1 ft. of snow so I had to take the truck out for a ride
to play in the snow.

I started out (fresh snow that had never been driven on) in 4x4 Low with
the diff locker on. I thought, "oh boy, I get to use the diff locker". So I
drive around and traction is great. Then I try it with just 4x4-low and the
diff unlocked, tractionis still great, then 4x4 high... traction is still great.

I can see that with only a 4x2 and a LSD you would tend to slip and slide
but with 4x4 I don't think traction is a problem. (good tires help)

The point about rock climbing is a good one though. It's mainly going to
be a street truck so it sounds like a LSD is the way to go.

CynicX

mainly street driving with 4x4 the LSD will be fine. I just wouldnt rely on it offroad, but if you dont offroad alot then the LSD will be benefitial.

And maybe the LSD clutch plates are stronger in the Toyota then they were in the Dana.....

As far as LSD vs Locker, in a truck that you rarely offroad in you will NEVER use the locker. So go for it.....if I were to buy a new Taco I would prefer the 4x4 LSD over the 4x4 Locker since I rarely offroad...

jwahaus

Well... I replaced the truck. I was having a hard time finding a Tacoma
4x4 much less one configured the way I wanted it so I had to settle for
a 2005 Tundra Double Cab 4x4.

I purchased the Tundra with leather seats and the 20" wheels for just
a little more than I would have paid for a Tacoma configured the way
I wanted it.

Right now, you can get a whole lot more truck for the money if you buy
a Tundra. It is sort of a beast compared to the Tacoma. It is a much
bigger truck and it feels like it. I was surprised how quick this 5000+
pound truck can get up to speed. The new 4.7L engine rocks.

I'll miss my little truck that could outrun most sports cars but the Tundra
is sure a sweet ride.

jwahaus

The owner's manual of my Tundra 4x4 specifically recommends using 4WD mode
when the streets are wet for better traction. Perhaps the binding issue is no
longer a problem on modern trucks.

Bluto

Congrats on the new truck! The 4.7 is a nice engine. The DC roll down rear window is sweet. But it is one long truck.

I had a similar situation back in January. I wanted a DC Tacoma, 4WD, Offroad. Tacoma demand and prices were high. I picked up a V8 4Runner for less than a Tacoma.

I'm a bit late, but the VSC + e-locker gets my vote. My 4Runner only has VSC. No problems in the rain. It did great in the snow. But the 4WD is full-time.

LittleRedToyota

interesting...i'm not up to speed on the setups of the latest trucks...do you know if your truck has a center differential (a diff in the transfer case)? do you have a push button "all-wheel-drive" option (or something like that)?

i'm just curious how they addressed the issue.

EDIT: ahhh...i see in the post above that they do have full time 4wd now...that's why binding on pavement is no longer an issue.