3" Drivetrain/Body Lift + New Crossmembers = ...

ravencr · 10-07-2005, 07:15 AM

a flat undercarriage on 3rd gen:

Basically, I've used FROR's transfer case skid plate, and custom fabbed a combination of 3x1.5x3/16" and 3x2x3/16" tubing to make the front crossmember.

As a result, I've got a flat undercarriage from just behind the front tires all the way back to the lower control arm mounts in the rear.

To achieve this, I did a 3" RB body lift, and the 3" RB motor mount spacers. The transfer case skid sits level with the bottom of the frame rails, and the front one I made sits about a 1/2" above the frame rails.

Chris

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seaflea · 10-07-2005, 07:50 AM

nice work Chris!

FilthyRich · 10-07-2005, 07:52 AM

I take it your spare lives in the cargo area now? and yes nice work on the flat belly

ravencr · 10-07-2005, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaflea

nice work Chris!

Thanks Will! Did you ever pursue that Mustang Gas Tank idea? If so, I'd love to here more about it. Email me: chrisrademacher@fastmail.fm

Will, are you guys planning to come out this direction as we talked about in the past, briefly? If so, you and Mike and whoever else has a place to stay if you need it.

Chris

ravencr · 10-07-2005, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilthyRich

I take it your spare lives in the cargo area now? and yes nice work on the flat belly

Yes it does. I lay it down flat and strap it down. It's not the best thing for cargo carrying ability, but I don't like carrying much in the back anyway. I can't wait to test it out. I've had the cetner crossmember on for quite some time, which made a huge difference, and I'm hoping now that I've done the front one, I won't hang on anything by those stupid lower control arm frame mounts.

Chris

4Crawler · 10-07-2005, 08:09 AM

Looks good. The 3rd gens don't have stuff hanging down quite as far as the 1st and 2nd gens do. I did a 3" lift and have just the FWD portion of the t-case (mainly just the skid plate under it) and the skid plate under the gas tank (the tank itself is above the bottom of the frame) hanging below the frame rails:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ft/index.shtml

ravencr · 10-07-2005, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Crawler

Looks good. The 3rd gens don't have stuff hanging down quite as far as the 1st and 2nd gens do. I did a 3" lift and have just the FWD portion of the t-case (mainly just the skid plate under it) and the skid plate under the gas tank (the tank itself is above the bottom of the frame) hanging below the frame rails:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ft/index.shtml

That's a lot better than stock though, isn't it? Mine wouldn't have happened without your help, Roger. I really appreciate it. I'd say I'm one a only a few that have done it on a 3rd gen, but I'm sue people will begin to realize the benefits soon.

Chris

4Crawler · 10-07-2005, 08:25 AM

Here is stock:

Gained about 5.5" over the stock clearance under the truck. And it does make a huge difference off-road. I used to get hung up all the time on the crossmember and since lifting the drivetrain, I think I have only gotten hung up once and that was from taking a bad line and slipping off that line onto a big rock.

Funny thing is the first trip I took over the Fordyce (Sierra Trek) trail after the lift, I thought it was cool that I didn't even hit the t-case skid plate the whole trip, or so I thought. After the trail, I looked underneath, and saw lots of scrapes on the skidplate. So, I guess I did still hit it, just never got hung up on it.

Lone4runner · 10-07-2005, 12:12 PM

thats realy nice. what other mods did you need to do ? i am very interested in this.

JamesD · 10-07-2005, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Crawler

Looks good. The 3rd gens don't have stuff hanging down quite as far as the 1st and 2nd gens do. I did a 3" lift and have just the FWD portion of the t-case (mainly just the skid plate under it) and the skid plate under the gas tank (the tank itself is above the bottom of the frame) hanging below the frame rails:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ft/index.shtml

First off, is that a LC front diff I see? NICE! Second, wouldnt this method increase driveline angles severely?

James

4Crawler · 10-07-2005, 02:57 PM

Yes, that is a high pinion front diff from an FJ80. A 3" drivetrain lift adds 2-3 degrees to the driveshaft angles. With CV joints at the top end of both driveshafts, there is no problem with that. I have near perfect front shaft alingment w/ no shimming needed. In back, I had to add a few degrees to the shims.

Lone4runner · 10-07-2005, 02:59 PM

so 4cralwer is this a kit you have too?

4Crawler · 10-07-2005, 03:03 PM

You bet:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/MotorMount.shtml

Lone4runner · 10-07-2005, 03:17 PM

so its just a 3" BL and a motor mount lift and I can have my trucks undercarriage look like that? that and someone to fab the crossmembers?

4Crawler · 10-07-2005, 03:31 PM

Basically, yes; X" body lift, X" motor mount lift then there are a number of aftermarket tranny mount crossmembers you can get to raise that part of the drivetrain:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...shtml#BudBuilt

Then some fab work to raise other stuff like the exhaust and gas tank:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ft/index.shtml

Lone4runner · 10-07-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Crawler

Basically, yes; X" body lift, X" motor mount lift then there are a number of aftermarket tranny mount crossmembers you can get to raise that part of the drivetrain:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...shtml#BudBuilt

Then some fab work to raise other stuff like the exhaust and gas tank:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ft/index.shtml

cool thank you it seems i have some reading to do

oh btw whats the smallest amount of BL i can get and still have that result? a 3"?

ravencr · 10-07-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lone4runner

cool thank you it seems i have some reading to do

oh btw whats the smallest amount of BL i can get and still have that result? a 3"?

Here's what I'd recommend to achieve what I've done:

1) RB 3" Ultimate Body Lift w/ Grade 8 bolts - his top of the line body lift
2) RB 3" Motor Mount Spacers
3) FROR transfer case skid plate
4) Custom fab the front crossmember using 3x1.5x3/16" & 3x2x3/16" tubing

Obviously you have to cut out the old crossmembers, and install the new ones, but I can promise it's going to make a huge difference out on the trails.

Chris

calrockx · 10-07-2005, 08:01 PM

looks good.

i'm thinking i'd like to achieve a similar result by clocking up the tcase and then putting in a custom cross member. i only have a 1.5" body lift.

ravencr · 10-07-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calrockx

looks good.

i'm thinking i'd like to achieve a similar result by clocking up the tcase and then putting in a custom cross member. i only have a 1.5" body lift.

I don't beleive it will work with 1.5" and clocking, but if it doesn, good luck and please let us know.

Chris

Lone4runner · 10-08-2005, 07:59 AM

did you have any trouble with your transmission (auto) and 4wd shifters? or anything else like the bumpers?

4Crawler · 10-08-2005, 08:09 AM

One advantage of raising the drivetrain to match the body lift is it is like there was no body lift at all. Why? The transmission and t-case are just as close to the floor of the body as they were stock. The engine (and fan) are lined up with the radiator (mounted to the body). The only thing you need to raise is the front bumper with brackets:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...tBumperBracket

The rear bumper is attached to the body and raises "for free". You also have to extend the steering shaft on some vehicles.

Lone4runner · 10-08-2005, 08:36 AM

as always thank you again 4crawler. forgive all the questions though i'm just making sure I have all my bases covered before i do this

.

ravencr · 10-08-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lone4runner

as always thank you again 4crawler. forgive all the questions though i'm just making sure I have all my bases covered before i do this

.

Roger's the pioneer of this, in my opinion. I bought everything from him, and I was set. I wouldn't bother attempting to clock the engine/tranny/transfer case, because then you're going to have to fix the angles for the shifters. Plus, on a 3rd gen I doubt you'll get the height you need to clear the bottom of the frame rails.

But, I'm also not scared of running a 3" body lift like some people are. In fact, if I were looking for a moderate 3" lift, I'd do a 3" drivetrain/body lift and flatten the undercarriage, which is almost equivalent to going up in tire size like 8-9" without the extra height.

Chris

Lone4runner · 10-08-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravencr

Roger's the pioneer of this, in my opinion. I bought everything from him, and I was set. I wouldn't bother attempting to clock the engine/tranny/transfer case, because then you're going to have to fix the angles for the shifters. Plus, on a 3rd gen I doubt you'll get the height you need to clear the bottom of the frame rails.

But, I'm also not scared of running a 3" body lift like some people are. In fact, if I were looking for a moderate 3" lift, I'd do a 3" drivetrain/body lift and flatten the undercarriage, which is almost equivalent to going up in tire size like 8-9" without the extra height.

Chris

sorry what do you mean by clock? are you recomending a 3"BL or and go with a engine/tranny/transfer case lift? or are you stating that I should bother w/ engine/tranny/transfer case lift?

4Crawler · 10-08-2005, 08:50 PM

Clocking the t-case refers to rotating transfer case so that the FWD output does not hang down so low. Takes a special adapter to do that, plus since the shifter comes out of the top of that part of the case, it rotates over to the side, meaning that you need to modify the shifters to come back out of the hole in the floor.

Can't really take credit for the drivetrain lift idea. Saw the 4Runner that Drew Persson built with a 3" DT lift (all custom built) and it was sweet. Pretty much stock IFS but 3" body lift and 33s and that thing would go over everything. Drew did everything welded in place, cutting out the old motor mounts and fabbing up raised brackets, etc. He said it was so much work he would never do it again. Looking at it, it seemed like it could be done as a bolt-on install, so I designed the spacers and did it on my '85 after swapping out the 1" for a 3" body lift. Now there are a number of crossmember vendors that offer raised versions, it makes things very easy to do. Probably one of the best improvements I did to my truck. Really comes in handy when you are the only truck on 33s on a trail with folks running 35s, 37s and bigger. Between that and shaving an inch off the bottom of the axles, it can make up for many inches of tire size.

10-07-2005, 07:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
seaflea Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: wilmington nc Posts: 1,602	nice work Chris! __________________ Will WabFab Off-Road, LLC Toyota 4x4 Parts and Custom Fabrication updated website with lots of new products 87 runner with every bolt on available

10-07-2005, 08:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	Looks good. The 3rd gens don't have stuff hanging down quite as far as the 1st and 2nd gens do. I did a 3" lift and have just the FWD portion of the t-case (mainly just the skid plate under it) and the skid plate under the gas tank (the tank itself is above the bottom of the frame) hanging below the frame rails: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ft/index.shtml __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

10-07-2005, 08:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	Here is stock: Gained about 5.5" over the stock clearance under the truck. And it does make a huge difference off-road. I used to get hung up all the time on the crossmember and since lifting the drivetrain, I think I have only gotten hung up once and that was from taking a bad line and slipping off that line onto a big rock. Funny thing is the first trip I took over the Fordyce (Sierra Trek) trail after the lift, I thought it was cool that I didn't even hit the t-case skid plate the whole trip, or so I thought. After the trail, I looked underneath, and saw lots of scrapes on the skidplate. So, I guess I did still hit it, just never got hung up on it. __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club Last edited by 4Crawler; 10-07-2005 at 08:36 AM.

10-07-2005, 12:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lone4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Quincy, MA Posts: 608	thats realy nice. what other mods did you need to do ? i am very interested in this. __________________ ED 1999 4Rnr Ltd, Deckplate mod, R Diff Breather. ISR, Hella 500, Cobra 18WXSTII, Denso IR plugs, Magellan GPS, Sirius, 285/75R17 Firestone Destination MT, Wheelers Type B 16x8 Black rims, K&N Filter, TJM T17 Bumper w SS Bumper brackets w/ shackle hangers, 1st gen Roll cage, SS Extended pan hard bar, SS Diff Drop, Stainless Steel Goodridge Brake Lines, Hellas 500, 2"BL, Budbuilt Skidplates, SAWS, OME 891, OME N86,FF sliders, 15 lb Co2 Ultimate air, Ammo tank(for storage:), Optima Red top

10-07-2005, 02:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	Yes, that is a high pinion front diff from an FJ80. A 3" drivetrain lift adds 2-3 degrees to the driveshaft angles. With CV joints at the top end of both driveshafts, there is no problem with that. I have near perfect front shaft alingment w/ no shimming needed. In back, I had to add a few degrees to the shims. __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

10-07-2005, 02:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
Lone4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Quincy, MA Posts: 608	so 4cralwer is this a kit you have too? __________________ ED 1999 4Rnr Ltd, Deckplate mod, R Diff Breather. ISR, Hella 500, Cobra 18WXSTII, Denso IR plugs, Magellan GPS, Sirius, 285/75R17 Firestone Destination MT, Wheelers Type B 16x8 Black rims, K&N Filter, TJM T17 Bumper w SS Bumper brackets w/ shackle hangers, 1st gen Roll cage, SS Extended pan hard bar, SS Diff Drop, Stainless Steel Goodridge Brake Lines, Hellas 500, 2"BL, Budbuilt Skidplates, SAWS, OME 891, OME N86,FF sliders, 15 lb Co2 Ultimate air, Ammo tank(for storage:), Optima Red top

10-07-2005, 03:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	You bet: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/MotorMount.shtml __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

10-07-2005, 03:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
Lone4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Quincy, MA Posts: 608	so its just a 3" BL and a motor mount lift and I can have my trucks undercarriage look like that? that and someone to fab the crossmembers? __________________ ED 1999 4Rnr Ltd, Deckplate mod, R Diff Breather. ISR, Hella 500, Cobra 18WXSTII, Denso IR plugs, Magellan GPS, Sirius, 285/75R17 Firestone Destination MT, Wheelers Type B 16x8 Black rims, K&N Filter, TJM T17 Bumper w SS Bumper brackets w/ shackle hangers, 1st gen Roll cage, SS Extended pan hard bar, SS Diff Drop, Stainless Steel Goodridge Brake Lines, Hellas 500, 2"BL, Budbuilt Skidplates, SAWS, OME 891, OME N86,FF sliders, 15 lb Co2 Ultimate air, Ammo tank(for storage:), Optima Red top

10-07-2005, 03:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	Basically, yes; X" body lift, X" motor mount lift then there are a number of aftermarket tranny mount crossmembers you can get to raise that part of the drivetrain: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...shtml#BudBuilt Then some fab work to raise other stuff like the exhaust and gas tank: - http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ft/index.shtml __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club Last edited by 4Crawler; 10-07-2005 at 03:32 PM.

10-07-2005, 08:01 PM	#18 (permalink)
calrockx Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Santa Clarita, California Posts: 4,742	looks good. i'm thinking i'd like to achieve a similar result by clocking up the tcase and then putting in a custom cross member. i only have a 1.5" body lift. __________________ [2002 4Runner 4WD]

10-08-2005, 07:59 AM	#20 (permalink)
Lone4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Quincy, MA Posts: 608	did you have any trouble with your transmission (auto) and 4wd shifters? or anything else like the bumpers? __________________ ED 1999 4Rnr Ltd, Deckplate mod, R Diff Breather. ISR, Hella 500, Cobra 18WXSTII, Denso IR plugs, Magellan GPS, Sirius, 285/75R17 Firestone Destination MT, Wheelers Type B 16x8 Black rims, K&N Filter, TJM T17 Bumper w SS Bumper brackets w/ shackle hangers, 1st gen Roll cage, SS Extended pan hard bar, SS Diff Drop, Stainless Steel Goodridge Brake Lines, Hellas 500, 2"BL, Budbuilt Skidplates, SAWS, OME 891, OME N86,FF sliders, 15 lb Co2 Ultimate air, Ammo tank(for storage:), Optima Red top

10-08-2005, 08:09 AM	#21 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	One advantage of raising the drivetrain to match the body lift is it is like there was no body lift at all. Why? The transmission and t-case are just as close to the floor of the body as they were stock. The engine (and fan) are lined up with the radiator (mounted to the body). The only thing you need to raise is the front bumper with brackets: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...tBumperBracket The rear bumper is attached to the body and raises "for free". You also have to extend the steering shaft on some vehicles. __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

10-08-2005, 08:36 AM	#22 (permalink)
Lone4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Quincy, MA Posts: 608	as always thank you again 4crawler. forgive all the questions though i'm just making sure I have all my bases covered before i do this . __________________ ED 1999 4Rnr Ltd, Deckplate mod, R Diff Breather. ISR, Hella 500, Cobra 18WXSTII, Denso IR plugs, Magellan GPS, Sirius, 285/75R17 Firestone Destination MT, Wheelers Type B 16x8 Black rims, K&N Filter, TJM T17 Bumper w SS Bumper brackets w/ shackle hangers, 1st gen Roll cage, SS Extended pan hard bar, SS Diff Drop, Stainless Steel Goodridge Brake Lines, Hellas 500, 2"BL, Budbuilt Skidplates, SAWS, OME 891, OME N86,FF sliders, 15 lb Co2 Ultimate air, Ammo tank(for storage:), Optima Red top

10-08-2005, 08:50 PM	#25 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	Clocking the t-case refers to rotating transfer case so that the FWD output does not hang down so low. Takes a special adapter to do that, plus since the shifter comes out of the top of that part of the case, it rotates over to the side, meaning that you need to modify the shifters to come back out of the hole in the floor. Can't really take credit for the drivetrain lift idea. Saw the 4Runner that Drew Persson built with a 3" DT lift (all custom built) and it was sweet. Pretty much stock IFS but 3" body lift and 33s and that thing would go over everything. Drew did everything welded in place, cutting out the old motor mounts and fabbing up raised brackets, etc. He said it was so much work he would never do it again. Looking at it, it seemed like it could be done as a bolt-on install, so I designed the spacers and did it on my '85 after swapping out the 1" for a 3" body lift. Now there are a number of crossmember vendors that offer raised versions, it makes things very easy to do. Probably one of the best improvements I did to my truck. Really comes in handy when you are the only truck on 33s on a trail with folks running 35s, 37s and bigger. Between that and shaving an inch off the bottom of the axles, it can make up for many inches of tire size. __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

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