will a heavier synth oil stop leaks?
10-17-2003, 12:34 PM
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will a heavier synth oil stop leaks?
i know that a few folks have reported that after switching to synthetic in a higher mileage truck, they've noticed a little more engine oil leaking/weeping. i'm one of them. the camshaft end plugs in the cylinder heads are the suspected culprits. it's not a gushing leak, usually just incremental dribs and drabs. after extended hiway driving it does leak a bit more quickly, however.
still, my now cleaner, quieter and smoother-running engine -- even with a little leaking -- seems like less of a liability than its formerly clogged-up state. you can tell from just pulling the oil filler cap how much cleaner it is in there now.
my question: has anyone ever managed to recover from this kind of leak by switching to a heavier synth? if so, any recommendations on a new grade? using mobil 1 10W30 now. i've heard folks say "go with a blend" but with 118k on it, i'm not so sure switching back and forth is the answer.
i've searched, but never found anything that quite covers this scenario. any input welcome.
thanks all!
still, my now cleaner, quieter and smoother-running engine -- even with a little leaking -- seems like less of a liability than its formerly clogged-up state. you can tell from just pulling the oil filler cap how much cleaner it is in there now.
my question: has anyone ever managed to recover from this kind of leak by switching to a heavier synth? if so, any recommendations on a new grade? using mobil 1 10W30 now. i've heard folks say "go with a blend" but with 118k on it, i'm not so sure switching back and forth is the answer.
i've searched, but never found anything that quite covers this scenario. any input welcome.
thanks all!
10-17-2003, 01:03 PM
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A heavier oil - conventional or synthetic - will slow down some leaks, but will never solve the problem.
So yes, depending on the severity of your problem, it will slow the leak down.
So yes, depending on the severity of your problem, it will slow the leak down.
10-17-2003, 04:12 PM
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Have you considered simply fixing the leak? Just throwing that out there...
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10-17-2003, 04:18 PM
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Oil leak
As a last resort you can use some oil stop leak.... don't do this until you are almost ready to dump the truck/engine. It will be ok for awhile but will eventually catch up to itself and in some cases make it worse. Otherwise. dido on previous posts.
10-17-2003, 09:51 PM
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First off, let me start by saying HI! This is my first post here but I have been reading it for a while. Let me see if I can clear up some synthetic myths & facts for 'yall.
1) Synthetic oils have a different molecular structure than conventional based petro-oils. That is they maintain a round shape for a longer period of time thus not allowing carbon molecules to bond to them (black oil). This also has a side effect of "causing leaks". What really happens is the synthetic oil washes the inside of the engine and removes the small (or large) amounts of carbon & residual deposits left behind from petro-oils. This then makes leaks that were previously unseen appear. It's not that it caused a leak; it just cleared a previously plugged leak.
2) An oils weight is determined by the rate of flow at a given ambient temperature. Basically, heavier oil (20-50) will be thicker at say 50deg F than light oil (10-30) the trade off is better high temp protection. What it boils down to is depending on ambient air temperature you should choose an oil that meets your needs. (Alaska in December & Phoenix in July will take different oils)
I recently spent a couple of hours getting a chance to speak with a couple of Mobil1 reps and got the low down on their oil...According to Mobil, their synthetic oil is 2-3years more advanced than the compeditor. Mobil's tri-synthetic oil (with is now outdated by Mobil) is similar to what the competition has on the market today.
Hope that helps clear some air.
1) Synthetic oils have a different molecular structure than conventional based petro-oils. That is they maintain a round shape for a longer period of time thus not allowing carbon molecules to bond to them (black oil). This also has a side effect of "causing leaks". What really happens is the synthetic oil washes the inside of the engine and removes the small (or large) amounts of carbon & residual deposits left behind from petro-oils. This then makes leaks that were previously unseen appear. It's not that it caused a leak; it just cleared a previously plugged leak.
2) An oils weight is determined by the rate of flow at a given ambient temperature. Basically, heavier oil (20-50) will be thicker at say 50deg F than light oil (10-30) the trade off is better high temp protection. What it boils down to is depending on ambient air temperature you should choose an oil that meets your needs. (Alaska in December & Phoenix in July will take different oils)
I recently spent a couple of hours getting a chance to speak with a couple of Mobil1 reps and got the low down on their oil...According to Mobil, their synthetic oil is 2-3years more advanced than the compeditor. Mobil's tri-synthetic oil (with is now outdated by Mobil) is similar to what the competition has on the market today.
Hope that helps clear some air.
10-18-2003, 04:20 AM
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Thanks for contributing, but some of your info is wrong.
Synthetic oils do not cause leaks. That is a very old myth. If you have an existing leak more synthetic oil will go throgh that leak because it is more slippery. What might be just a weep now with junk oil may show up as a leak with a synthetic. Now with a premium synthetic this may not happen because of the advanced addititive package containing higher quality and greater amount of seal sweller additives.
That Mobil 1 guy snowed you big time. The fact is that thier "Tri-Synthetic" oil was a lesser quality then their own oil it replaced. It simply did not preform well as the Mobil 1 oil it replaced in standardized industry testing. Where other oil companies are going forward, Mobil 1 chose to go backward. What do you think they did that? I can tell you this, it certainly was not marketed as a lesser oil was it?
Mobil 1 is not a bad oil, but it is not the best on the market. It is not a premium synthetic oil.
Next time you speak to that Mobil 1 guy see if you can pin him down on "who" they feel is their competition when they make those kind of claims. That should prove interesting. Also ask him why their Mobil 1-AV oil ruined so many aircraft engines. See if he knows the answer to that and see if he knows how many motor oils the Feds ordered off of the market. I hope he can count to 1, as in Mobil 1-AV.
If you are curious to know more about motor oils and how they are tested, rated and so on, go to my website and download the Motor Oil Bible. If you read that cover to cover, you will know more about motor oil then 99.9% of the profesional mechanics out there and then you might know when an oil rep is snowing you.
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Synthetic oils do not cause leaks. That is a very old myth. If you have an existing leak more synthetic oil will go throgh that leak because it is more slippery. What might be just a weep now with junk oil may show up as a leak with a synthetic. Now with a premium synthetic this may not happen because of the advanced addititive package containing higher quality and greater amount of seal sweller additives.
That Mobil 1 guy snowed you big time. The fact is that thier "Tri-Synthetic" oil was a lesser quality then their own oil it replaced. It simply did not preform well as the Mobil 1 oil it replaced in standardized industry testing. Where other oil companies are going forward, Mobil 1 chose to go backward. What do you think they did that? I can tell you this, it certainly was not marketed as a lesser oil was it?
Mobil 1 is not a bad oil, but it is not the best on the market. It is not a premium synthetic oil.
Next time you speak to that Mobil 1 guy see if you can pin him down on "who" they feel is their competition when they make those kind of claims. That should prove interesting. Also ask him why their Mobil 1-AV oil ruined so many aircraft engines. See if he knows the answer to that and see if he knows how many motor oils the Feds ordered off of the market. I hope he can count to 1, as in Mobil 1-AV.
If you are curious to know more about motor oils and how they are tested, rated and so on, go to my website and download the Motor Oil Bible. If you read that cover to cover, you will know more about motor oil then 99.9% of the profesional mechanics out there and then you might know when an oil rep is snowing you.
Gadget
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10-18-2003, 05:39 AM
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FWIW, the "stop leak" (aka Smoke-B-Gone, etc) stopped a slight head gasket leak in my wife's car for a while. However, it didn't solve the problem, and when the gasket finally went it really went (car would hardly idle, bellowing white smoke, etc). Of course the catalyst for the gasket finally going was me adding some fuel injector cleaner, but the point is the heavier stuff just masked a problem that needed to be fixed. You can go that route if you want, but don't be surprised if the problem pops up sometime down the road even uglier than before. If it were me, I would get it fixed right whenever you can.
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10-18-2003, 02:42 PM
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I had an 88 ford ranger 2.8l with about 200k "hard miles" on it. I switched over to valvoline straight 50W after a few guys commented saying "the city should hire you to fog for mesquitos" 
I dunno if that comes in synthetic or not though. 
I dunno if it would stop your leeks or not but if your smokin it'll help . Starting the truck in the winter was a little trickey. Truck seemed to run kinda lop-sded till it warmed up 
:
I dunno if that comes in synthetic or not though. I dunno if it would stop your leeks or not but if your smokin it'll help . Starting the truck in the winter was a little trickey. Truck seemed to run kinda lop-sded till it warmed up :
Last edited by cruizin01; 10-18-2003 at 02:46 PM.
10-20-2003, 06:31 AM
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thanks everyone for your replies and input.
i have considered fixing the problem the right way, but for right now it seems like a lot of $$ to fix a problem that doesn't obviate my daily driving ... i can afford a few extra quarts of oil!
still, i'd like to help mitigate the problem as much as i can. perhaps i'll try moving up to a heavier weight and see what happens.
sorry to have dredged up the age-old "synths -vs- dino and oil leaks" debate. in truth, i think the "leak" (the potential for it) was there before i switched to synth and now the smaller oil particles are just exploiting the weakness.
the engine sure runs quiet and smooth now, though ....
i have considered fixing the problem the right way, but for right now it seems like a lot of $$ to fix a problem that doesn't obviate my daily driving ... i can afford a few extra quarts of oil!
still, i'd like to help mitigate the problem as much as i can. perhaps i'll try moving up to a heavier weight and see what happens.
sorry to have dredged up the age-old "synths -vs- dino and oil leaks" debate. in truth, i think the "leak" (the potential for it) was there before i switched to synth and now the smaller oil particles are just exploiting the weakness.
the engine sure runs quiet and smooth now, though ....
10-20-2003, 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by sandcrawler
thanks everyone for your replies and input.
i have considered fixing the problem the right way, but for right now it seems like a lot of $$ to fix a problem that doesn't obviate my daily driving ... i can afford a few extra quarts of oil!
still, i'd like to help mitigate the problem as much as i can. perhaps i'll try moving up to a heavier weight and see what happens.
sorry to have dredged up the age-old "synths -vs- dino and oil leaks" debate. in truth, i think the "leak" (the potential for it) was there before i switched to synth and now the smaller oil particles are just exploiting the weakness.
the engine sure runs quiet and smooth now, though ....
thanks everyone for your replies and input.
i have considered fixing the problem the right way, but for right now it seems like a lot of $$ to fix a problem that doesn't obviate my daily driving ... i can afford a few extra quarts of oil!
still, i'd like to help mitigate the problem as much as i can. perhaps i'll try moving up to a heavier weight and see what happens.
sorry to have dredged up the age-old "synths -vs- dino and oil leaks" debate. in truth, i think the "leak" (the potential for it) was there before i switched to synth and now the smaller oil particles are just exploiting the weakness.
the engine sure runs quiet and smooth now, though ....
Take what any "expurt" tells you about oils with a grain of salt. You can find a lot of info on the net and a number of sites that have dozens of oil anaylsis results on different types of oil used in different engines. Keep in mind too that how things were 1,2,5 years ago isn't always true now. Manufacturers are always playing with formulations. The latest may be far better or worse than the "same" oil from time past...
10-20-2003, 12:09 PM
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thanks JSharp.
i know, there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of -- often contradictory -- information about oil out there.
i try to apply the principles of averages to how much credence i give to any one bit of advice/expertise ...
i know, there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of -- often contradictory -- information about oil out there.
i try to apply the principles of averages to how much credence i give to any one bit of advice/expertise ...
10-20-2003, 12:13 PM
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Gadget: i have a follow-up question to your recent response ...
"What might be just a weep now with junk oil may show up as a leak with a synthetic. Now with a premium synthetic this may not happen because of the advanced addititive package containing higher quality and greater amount of seal sweller additives."
so, are you thinking that if i switch to a premium oil, like amsoil, that perhaps i can recover from the leak i'm getting with mobil one 10w30?
your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
"What might be just a weep now with junk oil may show up as a leak with a synthetic. Now with a premium synthetic this may not happen because of the advanced addititive package containing higher quality and greater amount of seal sweller additives."
so, are you thinking that if i switch to a premium oil, like amsoil, that perhaps i can recover from the leak i'm getting with mobil one 10w30?
your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
10-20-2003, 02:40 PM
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There is no way of telling. It might be better, might not. The best course of action is to simply fix the leak.
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10-20-2003, 07:07 PM
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Never said Synthetic oils caused leaks, only said it would make a leak more evedent. Also, Tri-synthetic was replaced because it was an inferrior oil compaired to the super-synth. As for Mobil 1 not being a preimum oil, I have to dissagree there. There is a reason that Mobil & Mercedes-Benz have a partnershipfor both Mercedes & AMG. Maybach ($400-700k new limosine) only alows Mobil 1 oils. These are cars that not only have very high out put motors (600+hp & 600+ftlbs torque) go anywhere from 10-15,000 miles between oil changes.
Anyways, thats my take on it.....take it how 'ya want
Anyways, thats my take on it.....take it how 'ya want
10-20-2003, 07:31 PM
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Mobil 1 is a good oil and there is nothing wrong with it, it is however not a premium synthetic oil. There are only three oils in the world that fit that catagory.
AMSOIL, NEO, and I can't remember the third. I think it is listed in the Motor Oil Bible if you want to download it from my site.
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AMSOIL, NEO, and I can't remember the third. I think it is listed in the Motor Oil Bible if you want to download it from my site.
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10-21-2003, 02:50 PM
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Considering Amsoil buys their base stocks from Mobil Co. I can't see how M1 is not considered a premium synthetic comparable to Amsoil. Amsoil just uses a much different additive package. Used oil analysis' on both oils seem to be a tie from what I've seen and others opinions. Not slamming Amsoil here as I'd use it if M1 wasn't selling so cheaply at Walmart.
As for the leaks, go to this site and look up Auto-Rx: . I know it sounds hoeky and it is expensive but the stuff works!The Oil Drop
I've used it myself (no leaks but had a dirty engine due to plugged PCV valve) and I cut open the filter after the first treatment. I could dig the "garbage" out of the filter pleats with a nail there was so much. It is a long, slow cleaning and seal replenishing project and as I said, it works.
Also keep in mind that NO product will help if the seal is actually damaged/worn out and then the only recourse is replacement.
As for the leaks, go to this site and look up Auto-Rx: . I know it sounds hoeky and it is expensive but the stuff works!The Oil Drop
I've used it myself (no leaks but had a dirty engine due to plugged PCV valve) and I cut open the filter after the first treatment. I could dig the "garbage" out of the filter pleats with a nail there was so much. It is a long, slow cleaning and seal replenishing project and as I said, it works.
Also keep in mind that NO product will help if the seal is actually damaged/worn out and then the only recourse is replacement.
10-21-2003, 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by Toyo4x4
Considering Amsoil buys their base stocks from Mobil Co. I can't see how M1 is not considered a premium synthetic comparable to Amsoil. Amsoil just uses a much different additive package. Used oil analysis' on both oils seem to be a tie from what I've seen and others opinions. Not slamming Amsoil here as I'd use it if M1 wasn't selling so cheaply at Walmart.
As for the leaks, go to this site and look up Auto-Rx: . I know it sounds hoeky and it is expensive but the stuff works!The Oil Drop
I've used it myself (no leaks but had a dirty engine due to plugged PCV valve) and I cut open the filter after the first treatment. I could dig the "garbage" out of the filter pleats with a nail there was so much. It is a long, slow cleaning and seal replenishing project and as I said, it works.
Also keep in mind that NO product will help if the seal is actually damaged/worn out and then the only recourse is replacement.
Considering Amsoil buys their base stocks from Mobil Co. I can't see how M1 is not considered a premium synthetic comparable to Amsoil. Amsoil just uses a much different additive package. Used oil analysis' on both oils seem to be a tie from what I've seen and others opinions. Not slamming Amsoil here as I'd use it if M1 wasn't selling so cheaply at Walmart.
As for the leaks, go to this site and look up Auto-Rx: . I know it sounds hoeky and it is expensive but the stuff works!The Oil Drop
I've used it myself (no leaks but had a dirty engine due to plugged PCV valve) and I cut open the filter after the first treatment. I could dig the "garbage" out of the filter pleats with a nail there was so much. It is a long, slow cleaning and seal replenishing project and as I said, it works.
Also keep in mind that NO product will help if the seal is actually damaged/worn out and then the only recourse is replacement.
07-10-2004, 10:44 PM
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would there be any problem with runing dino one oil change and synthic every other on a 100k mile yota? switching back and forth. Not that I am going to do this but if my rear main seal oil leak gets worse I would like to be able to go back to dino and not worry about leak. I would fix it but it sounds hard so I need to study up first.
