what oil for my tramsission?? dextron II or III other'?
01-24-2007, 09:29 AM
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what oil for my tramsission?? dextron II or III other'?
Hi, i just received from your country the new filter to make a maintenance to my automatic transmission for my tacoma 96, which kind of oil have i to use?? dextron II, dextron III a frind told me abuto T4 o something like that... :confused:, i'm in a hurry, i want to use it soon...!!!
Thanks...
Larry
Thanks...
Larry
01-24-2007, 10:23 AM
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Dexron III is typically an acceptable alternative if a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is not available and the owners manual states that. However, in 2002, Toyota stopped listing Dexron III as an alternative and delaers are starting to enforce that in respect of warranty claims/repairs. It makes sense that a specific fluid put in the tranny during a warranty period will reduce the chances of warranty claims hence Toyota are now chosing to control that better.
In your case, a 96, you should be fine . Just don't have the tranny powerflushed if the current ATF has been in the vehicle for more than 60k.
The genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is a slightly 'harder' fluid than the DEXRON III fluid e.g. shifts are a hair crisper and take less duration. Toyota believe this is better in the long run as the less time the transmission is shifting, the less slipping and heat build up. Makes sense really and this is one of the benefits of a valve body upgrade...quicker shiftts help performance and protect the transmission (up to a limit) .
The other big benefit of a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is that it has considerably greater friction durability e.g. it will give the correct crisp shifts for considerably longer than a Dexron III fluid.
In short, if you can afford it, use a Genuine T-IV fluid as it is designed and tested on Aisin ( I mean Aisin the brand, not Asian ) transmissions (amongst others). It is optimzed to suit the characteristics of your transmission and, it has considerably better friction durability and typically, better oxidation stability as well which is a good thing if you tow or work your transmission hard.
How do I know all this ??? I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night
That and I spend 5 days a week working on the design of ATF's and Gear Lubes.
Lecture over
David
In your case, a 96, you should be fine . Just don't have the tranny powerflushed if the current ATF has been in the vehicle for more than 60k.
The genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is a slightly 'harder' fluid than the DEXRON III fluid e.g. shifts are a hair crisper and take less duration. Toyota believe this is better in the long run as the less time the transmission is shifting, the less slipping and heat build up. Makes sense really and this is one of the benefits of a valve body upgrade...quicker shiftts help performance and protect the transmission (up to a limit) .
The other big benefit of a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is that it has considerably greater friction durability e.g. it will give the correct crisp shifts for considerably longer than a Dexron III fluid.
In short, if you can afford it, use a Genuine T-IV fluid as it is designed and tested on Aisin ( I mean Aisin the brand, not Asian ) transmissions (amongst others). It is optimzed to suit the characteristics of your transmission and, it has considerably better friction durability and typically, better oxidation stability as well which is a good thing if you tow or work your transmission hard.
How do I know all this ??? I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night
That and I spend 5 days a week working on the design of ATF's and Gear Lubes.
Lecture over
David
Last edited by nrgetic99; 01-24-2007 at 10:25 AM.
01-24-2007, 10:28 AM
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Dexron III is typically an acceptable alternative if a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is not available and the owners manual states that. However, in 2002, Toyota stopped listing Dexron III as an alternative and delaers are starting to enforce that in respect of warranty claims/repairs. It makes sense that a specific fluid put in the tranny during a warranty period will reduce the chances of warranty claims hence Toyota are now chosing to control that better.
In your case, a 96, you should be fine . Just don't have the tranny powerflushed if the current ATF has been in the vehicle for more than 60k.
The genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is a slightly 'harder' fluid than the DEXRON III fluid e.g. shifts are a hair crisper and take less duration. Toyota believe this is better in the long run as the less time the transmission is shifting, the less slipping and heat build up. Makes sense really and this is one of the benefits of a valve body upgrade...quicker shiftts help performance and protect the transmission (up to a limit) .
The other big benefit of a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is that it has considerably greater friction durability e.g. it will give the correct crisp shifts for considerably longer than a Dexron III fluid.
In short, if you can afford it, use a Genuine T-IV fluid as it is designed and tested on Aisin ( I mean Aisin the brand, not Asian ) transmissions (amongst others). It is optimzed to suit the characteristics of your transmission and, it has considerably better friction durability and typically, better oxidation stability as well which is a good thing if you tow or work your transmission hard.
How do I know all this ??? I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night
That and I spend 5 days a week working on the design of ATF's and Gear Lubes.
Lecture over
David
In your case, a 96, you should be fine . Just don't have the tranny powerflushed if the current ATF has been in the vehicle for more than 60k.
The genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is a slightly 'harder' fluid than the DEXRON III fluid e.g. shifts are a hair crisper and take less duration. Toyota believe this is better in the long run as the less time the transmission is shifting, the less slipping and heat build up. Makes sense really and this is one of the benefits of a valve body upgrade...quicker shiftts help performance and protect the transmission (up to a limit) .
The other big benefit of a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is that it has considerably greater friction durability e.g. it will give the correct crisp shifts for considerably longer than a Dexron III fluid.
In short, if you can afford it, use a Genuine T-IV fluid as it is designed and tested on Aisin ( I mean Aisin the brand, not Asian ) transmissions (amongst others). It is optimzed to suit the characteristics of your transmission and, it has considerably better friction durability and typically, better oxidation stability as well which is a good thing if you tow or work your transmission hard.
How do I know all this ??? I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night
That and I spend 5 days a week working on the design of ATF's and Gear Lubes.
Lecture over
David
Thanks a lot, too clearly your response
Bye
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01-24-2007, 11:55 AM
#8
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Oh sorry I didn't know there was more than one. This one:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...hetic_ATF.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...hetic_ATF.aspx
Last edited by mt_goat; 01-24-2007 at 11:59 AM.
01-24-2007, 12:20 PM
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Oh sorry I didn't know there was more than one. This one:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...hetic_ATF.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...hetic_ATF.aspx
This one is better for Toyota. It meets T-IV and is designed around Aisin tranmsissions.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/..._ATF_3309.aspx
Mobil 1 is a fine product but why pay for a lot of stuff optimized around GM and Ford Transmissions.
David
01-24-2007, 12:29 PM
#10
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Actually,
This one is better for Toyota. It meets T-IV and is designed around Aisin tranmsissions.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/..._ATF_3309.aspx
Mobil 1 is a fine product but why pay for a lot of stuff optimized around GM and Ford Transmissions.
David
This one is better for Toyota. It meets T-IV and is designed around Aisin tranmsissions.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/..._ATF_3309.aspx
Mobil 1 is a fine product but why pay for a lot of stuff optimized around GM and Ford Transmissions.
David
01-25-2007, 04:56 AM
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Its also has a fairly high percentage of 'synthetic' base oil which in this case is good. I say 'synthetic' because as you may or may not be aware, those wondeful folks at Castrol won a lawsuit about 10 years back to categorize highly refined mineral stocks as synthetics so you have to be careful.
David
David
01-26-2007, 06:40 AM
#12
Contributing Member
Dexron III is typically an acceptable alternative if a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is not available and the owners manual states that. However, in 2002, Toyota stopped listing Dexron III as an alternative and delaers are starting to enforce that in respect of warranty claims/repairs. It makes sense that a specific fluid put in the tranny during a warranty period will reduce the chances of warranty claims hence Toyota are now chosing to control that better.
In your case, a 96, you should be fine . Just don't have the tranny powerflushed if the current ATF has been in the vehicle for more than 60k.
The genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is a slightly 'harder' fluid than the DEXRON III fluid e.g. shifts are a hair crisper and take less duration. Toyota believe this is better in the long run as the less time the transmission is shifting, the less slipping and heat build up. Makes sense really and this is one of the benefits of a valve body upgrade...quicker shiftts help performance and protect the transmission (up to a limit) .
The other big benefit of a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is that it has considerably greater friction durability e.g. it will give the correct crisp shifts for considerably longer than a Dexron III fluid.
In short, if you can afford it, use a Genuine T-IV fluid as it is designed and tested on Aisin ( I mean Aisin the brand, not Asian ) transmissions (amongst others). It is optimzed to suit the characteristics of your transmission and, it has considerably better friction durability and typically, better oxidation stability as well which is a good thing if you tow or work your transmission hard.
How do I know all this ??? I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night
That and I spend 5 days a week working on the design of ATF's and Gear Lubes.
Lecture over
David
In your case, a 96, you should be fine . Just don't have the tranny powerflushed if the current ATF has been in the vehicle for more than 60k.
The genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is a slightly 'harder' fluid than the DEXRON III fluid e.g. shifts are a hair crisper and take less duration. Toyota believe this is better in the long run as the less time the transmission is shifting, the less slipping and heat build up. Makes sense really and this is one of the benefits of a valve body upgrade...quicker shiftts help performance and protect the transmission (up to a limit) .
The other big benefit of a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is that it has considerably greater friction durability e.g. it will give the correct crisp shifts for considerably longer than a Dexron III fluid.
In short, if you can afford it, use a Genuine T-IV fluid as it is designed and tested on Aisin ( I mean Aisin the brand, not Asian ) transmissions (amongst others). It is optimzed to suit the characteristics of your transmission and, it has considerably better friction durability and typically, better oxidation stability as well which is a good thing if you tow or work your transmission hard.
How do I know all this ??? I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night
That and I spend 5 days a week working on the design of ATF's and Gear Lubes.
Lecture over
David
Just to add to David's great post of info....from John over at IPT:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/transmission-fluid-use-my-03-tacoma-32051/#post311825
"Here's the deal. Toyota T-IV fluid is definitely a bit different than Dexron III. However, this isn't the end of the world, you are not going to damage the transmission or anything. The worst that will happen is that you may experience some shift quality concerns.
If you are concerned, you can either do a couple of drain plug drops and add real T-IV or add a bottle of Black LubeGard additive. The LubeGard will convert Dexron into a fluid that has a similar coefficient of friction to T-IV."
Always nice to know you have options.
01-26-2007, 06:49 AM
#13
Contributing Member
The genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is a slightly 'harder' fluid than the DEXRON III fluid e.g. shifts are a hair crisper and take less duration. Toyota believe this is better in the long run as the less time the transmission is shifting, the less slipping and heat build up. Makes sense really and this is one of the benefits of a valve body upgrade...quicker shiftts help performance and protect the transmission (up to a limit) .
The other big benefit of a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is that it has considerably greater friction durability e.g. it will give the correct crisp shifts for considerably longer than a Dexron III fluid.
In short, if you can afford it, use a Genuine T-IV fluid as it is designed and tested on Aisin ( I mean Aisin the brand, not Asian ) transmissions (amongst others). It is optimzed to suit the characteristics of your transmission and, it has considerably better friction durability and typically, better oxidation stability as well which is a good thing if you tow or work your transmission hard.
How do I know all this ??? I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night
That and I spend 5 days a week working on the design of ATF's and Gear Lubes.
The other big benefit of a genuine Toyota T-IV fluid is that it has considerably greater friction durability e.g. it will give the correct crisp shifts for considerably longer than a Dexron III fluid.
In short, if you can afford it, use a Genuine T-IV fluid as it is designed and tested on Aisin ( I mean Aisin the brand, not Asian ) transmissions (amongst others). It is optimzed to suit the characteristics of your transmission and, it has considerably better friction durability and typically, better oxidation stability as well which is a good thing if you tow or work your transmission hard.
How do I know all this ??? I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night
That and I spend 5 days a week working on the design of ATF's and Gear Lubes.
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx
I was looking at the the Amsoil Supershift Racing Transmission Fluid (ART) since it says it is formulated for high-power high-torque applications. I think my Supercharged and URD'd 4Runner might qualify, but it could be I'd only see marginal results, and I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff is incredibly expensive. It does say that Off-Road 4x4's are a recommended application...
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/art.aspx
I have an aftermarket tranny cooler, and will soon have a VB upgrade too, just for your reference.
EDIT: Ok, so the Universal ATF is $107 for (12) 1-quart bottles, the Supershift Racing is $108... so no issue there I guess.
Last edited by mastacox; 01-26-2007 at 06:57 AM.
01-26-2007, 11:11 AM
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Just to add to David's great post of info....from John over at IPT:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=311825
"Here's the deal. Toyota T-IV fluid is definitely a bit different than Dexron III. However, this isn't the end of the world, you are not going to damage the transmission or anything. The worst that will happen is that you may experience some shift quality concerns.
If you are concerned, you can either do a couple of drain plug drops and add real T-IV or add a bottle of Black LubeGard additive. The LubeGard will convert Dexron into a fluid that has a similar coefficient of friction to T-IV."
Always nice to know you have options.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=311825
"Here's the deal. Toyota T-IV fluid is definitely a bit different than Dexron III. However, this isn't the end of the world, you are not going to damage the transmission or anything. The worst that will happen is that you may experience some shift quality concerns.
If you are concerned, you can either do a couple of drain plug drops and add real T-IV or add a bottle of Black LubeGard additive. The LubeGard will convert Dexron into a fluid that has a similar coefficient of friction to T-IV."
Always nice to know you have options.
Nothing against Jamie who only copied and pasted BUT you CANNOT convert a fluid into a T-IV with LubeGuard. We have done the testing.
I cannot understand why anyone would say this without test data. And don't ask LubeGuard for any...they don't have any data.
David
01-26-2007, 11:12 AM
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And as of 2007, DEXRON III will be replaced with DEXRON VI. There are already cowboys who claim you can add a top treat to any additive and boost it to DEXRON VI. If you believe that then you deserve all the problems you will get....
David
01-26-2007, 11:18 AM
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Hey David, since you seem to know a great deal about tranny fluids, any opinion on the Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF? Just curious is all, since I use all Amsoil in my '98 4Runner (engine, tranny, t-case, both diffs).
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx
I was looking at the the Amsoil Supershift Racing Transmission Fluid (ART) since it says it is formulated for high-power high-torque applications. I think my Supercharged and URD'd 4Runner might qualify, but it could be I'd only see marginal results, and I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff is incredibly expensive. It does say that Off-Road 4x4's are a recommended application...
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/art.aspx
I have an aftermarket tranny cooler, and will soon have a VB upgrade too, just for your reference.
EDIT: Ok, so the Universal ATF is $107 for (12) 1-quart bottles, the Supershift Racing is $108... so no issue there I guess.
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx
I was looking at the the Amsoil Supershift Racing Transmission Fluid (ART) since it says it is formulated for high-power high-torque applications. I think my Supercharged and URD'd 4Runner might qualify, but it could be I'd only see marginal results, and I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff is incredibly expensive. It does say that Off-Road 4x4's are a recommended application...
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/art.aspx
I have an aftermarket tranny cooler, and will soon have a VB upgrade too, just for your reference.
EDIT: Ok, so the Universal ATF is $107 for (12) 1-quart bottles, the Supershift Racing is $108... so no issue there I guess.
I had personal exerience of the Amsoil fluid with my SC'd 99 which had a Hayden cooler and a stock TB. I really liked the fact that it is amazingly oxidatively stable and provides excellent wear protection. I did however feel the shifts were a little lazy. I ended up having a full sysnthetic T-IV blended for me which basically has all the benefits of the Amsoil but also added crisper shifts and the correct performance for my transmission.
Amsoil is a fine, fine fluid and I am sure will never give you any conerns. I have zero knowledge of the Racing fluid.
As a very basic guideline... racing fluids typically are not expected to have to last a long time in a vehicle so will give excellent performance (if they meet your vehicles requirements) BUT may ironically need to be changed more often.
And as a standard disclaimer, YMMV, not all applicants and qualified to recieve the lowest rates, side affects may include but are not limited to death and dismemberment, Elvis lives !
David
01-26-2007, 11:19 AM
#18
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All,
Nothing against Jamie who only copied and pasted BUT you CANNOT convert a fluid into a T-IV with LubeGuard. We have done the testing.
I cannot understand why anyone would say this without test data. And don't ask LubeGuard for any...they don't have any data.
David
Nothing against Jamie who only copied and pasted BUT you CANNOT convert a fluid into a T-IV with LubeGuard. We have done the testing.
I cannot understand why anyone would say this without test data. And don't ask LubeGuard for any...they don't have any data.
David
Last edited by MTL_4runner; 01-26-2007 at 11:21 AM.
01-26-2007, 11:56 AM
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So where exactly is the test data for each? Can you be more specific/technical/quantified when you talk about the differences between the two types of fluid or various additives. Are we talking viscosity? (does "harder" = viscosity?) Coefficient of friction? Something else? It's nice to have someone knowledgeable about this since I never claimed to be an expert in tranny fluid......we are all here to learn. You'd think someone that rebuilds trannys for a living might know best, but maybe not.
Jamie,
Most of these top treats are a triumph of marketing. More power to the folks that market them.
A typical new category of fluid has spent literally millions of miles in field testing. Qualification programs, officially licensed ones can cost several hundred thousand dollars and are very stringent. Hence, when someone claims genuine DEXRON III with a license number, the fluid has been tested at some considerable margin ABOVE any vehicle requirments and meets ALL parameters.
In short, on either a new or a rebuilt transmission, the correct fluid never needs any top treat or booster. More over, a typical ATF may have as many as 12 or more individual chemicals which are carefully optimized and balanced to meet the requirments in addition to staying in solution and NOT reacting badly with old fluid etc.
If these top treats truly do what they say they can, they will compete with the genuine fluids for the same surfaces in the clutches and bands and can easily lead to the oil literally falling apart due to incompatibility of the chemicals. Thats not to mention, a licensed fluid typically has had to maintain a delicate balance of all properties, e.g. friction, anti wear, anti rust, foaming, oxidation etc. Top treats can actually prevent for instanace, the anti wear additives from being able to do thier job.
EDITED TO ADD : Can a top treat change the torque capacity of an ATF ??? Sure it can. Can that fluid be made to look like a genuine fluid in a single friction test (not a vehicle test) ??? Sure it can. Can it possibly be the same as a genuine T-IV fluid in ALL aspects and provide the same protection for the life of the fluid ??? I say no, you make up your own mind !
In short, the correct and licensed fluid will do EVERYTHING you need and provided you stick with the correct service intervals, never give a problem.
Now, there are plenty of less reputable marketers who will sell products that mention the correct specs but never obtained licences. Licenses cost money to maintain and the formulations are necessarily more expensive to support all of the R&D to develop them. Heck, some OEM's ask the oil suppliers for oils to help them develop a new transmisiion.
Why run the risk of adding something that has not even passed the most basic of tests to ensure its compatible and does not derate any other functions of the genuine fluid ????
Back to the original point about transmission rebuilders .... a top treat is one more thing to make a little money on. There is not a ton of money in the industry so adding a top treat just cranks up the profit a hair.
I have challenged 'mouse milk' suppliers at trade shows and when asked to produce data, they cannot.
I will get off my soap box now but please, if you do nothing else, use recommended and licensed fluids ONLY and change regulary..anything other than that is a lottery.
I will talk offline if you have any more questions...
David
Last edited by nrgetic99; 01-26-2007 at 02:54 PM.
