Tuning a Supercharged Engine?
02-08-2014, 11:25 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Tuning a Supercharged Engine?
I apologize on the amount of supercharger threads here and this has probably been covered before... but after searching a while I haven't found the answer.
I am planning on buying a 3.4L 4Runner and eventually putting a Supercharger on it with methanol injection. I'm new to engine tuning, since tuning a 3VZE is a waste of time.
So far, it seems like the URD 7th injector kit is the most common way people tune these engines. But I am not going that route, since water/meth injection has more benefits. I read in another thread where a Scan tool that connects to a laptop like this one: http://www.scantool.net/obdlink-sx.html would allow to tune the engine. Is this correct? Or is that just for reading fuel trims and data and I would need to purchase something else as well?
I am planning on buying a 3.4L 4Runner and eventually putting a Supercharger on it with methanol injection. I'm new to engine tuning, since tuning a 3VZE is a waste of time.
So far, it seems like the URD 7th injector kit is the most common way people tune these engines. But I am not going that route, since water/meth injection has more benefits. I read in another thread where a Scan tool that connects to a laptop like this one: http://www.scantool.net/obdlink-sx.html would allow to tune the engine. Is this correct? Or is that just for reading fuel trims and data and I would need to purchase something else as well?
02-08-2014, 01:22 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
I was planning on running water/meth instead of the URD setup though, so not sure if that will help (I've read some). The meth kit I'm looking at ,Devil's Own, does not have a tuning component.
02-08-2014, 02:26 PM
#4
Registered User
No plug-in options like you describe. That's my biggest gripe with my 4Runner. It would be awesome if we could just plug in a laptop and tune on the fly, like HPTuners and GM cars can.
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02-08-2014, 08:36 PM
#7
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With the water/meth kit it will be possible to "tune" with just a wideband O2 gauge. You can adjust the flow to compensate for high rpm lean out. You will want to make sure that you have a low level indicator as running out of water/meth could be catastrophic. I really like my snow performance kit but I still run the URD kit too.
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02-09-2014, 04:51 AM
#8
Contributing Member
Ok, lets start off with the basics.
Screw the supercharger, it is a waste of time unless you want a mild boost in power to basically make it have the power it should have come with stock. The amount of money, time and effort it takes to make any kind of power with it is silly.
I maxed the living heck out of my supercharger (To the point of killing the new bearings in under 10k miles trying to urk that last bit of power out of it) and still ended up with maybe ~275whp. Just sad.
With the CXracing turbo kit now an option you can literally put together a turbo kit for less then a supercharger in many cases. It makes SO much more sense. A turbo kits power should START at 275whp and go up as high as you want to push it.
In a nut shell, Turbo > supercharger.
So with that out of the way we get to tuning options.
Using a meth injection kit as the exclusive tuning method can indeed work quite well, I ended my supercharger adventure doing just this and getting the best performance out of the setup ever.
To do this you need a QUALITY meth injection kit and 100% methanol by the drum. That means no devils own, I recommend and use the Coolingmist CMGS autolearn (well the older version of it) myself.
The other semi-easy tuning option is a piggyback. The AEM FIC is a nice unit if you get it to play nice with the toyota sensors. Not that hard but still can be a bit of a nusence until you clean up the signals from what I hear. Once wrking though you can then control everything you need to max out the stock auto transmission easily and possibly even the stock motor.
After this you get into a bit more involved setups such as parallel ECU's and standalones. These are the better and best options but cost a lot more money and time. Not worth it unless you will be pushing things.
Even if you get the piggyback I HIGHLY recommend water/meth injection. Any boosted car should have it IMO and particularly any NA engine that has been converted to boost.
If you have E85 then this would be the best option for fuel.
Screw the supercharger, it is a waste of time unless you want a mild boost in power to basically make it have the power it should have come with stock. The amount of money, time and effort it takes to make any kind of power with it is silly.
I maxed the living heck out of my supercharger (To the point of killing the new bearings in under 10k miles trying to urk that last bit of power out of it) and still ended up with maybe ~275whp. Just sad.
With the CXracing turbo kit now an option you can literally put together a turbo kit for less then a supercharger in many cases. It makes SO much more sense. A turbo kits power should START at 275whp and go up as high as you want to push it.
In a nut shell, Turbo > supercharger.
So with that out of the way we get to tuning options.
Using a meth injection kit as the exclusive tuning method can indeed work quite well, I ended my supercharger adventure doing just this and getting the best performance out of the setup ever.
To do this you need a QUALITY meth injection kit and 100% methanol by the drum. That means no devils own, I recommend and use the Coolingmist CMGS autolearn (well the older version of it) myself.
The other semi-easy tuning option is a piggyback. The AEM FIC is a nice unit if you get it to play nice with the toyota sensors. Not that hard but still can be a bit of a nusence until you clean up the signals from what I hear. Once wrking though you can then control everything you need to max out the stock auto transmission easily and possibly even the stock motor.
After this you get into a bit more involved setups such as parallel ECU's and standalones. These are the better and best options but cost a lot more money and time. Not worth it unless you will be pushing things.
Even if you get the piggyback I HIGHLY recommend water/meth injection. Any boosted car should have it IMO and particularly any NA engine that has been converted to boost.
If you have E85 then this would be the best option for fuel.
02-09-2014, 06:35 AM
#9
Registered User
Ok, lets start off with the basics.
Screw the supercharger, it is a waste of time unless you want a mild boost in power to basically make it have the power it should have come with stock. The amount of money, time and effort it takes to make any kind of power with it is silly.
I maxed the living heck out of my supercharger (To the point of killing the new bearings in under 10k miles trying to urk that last bit of power out of it) and still ended up with maybe ~275whp. Just sad.
With the CXracing turbo kit now an option you can literally put together a turbo kit for less then a supercharger in many cases. It makes SO much more sense. A turbo kits power should START at 275whp and go up as high as you want to push it.
In a nut shell, Turbo > supercharger.
Screw the supercharger, it is a waste of time unless you want a mild boost in power to basically make it have the power it should have come with stock. The amount of money, time and effort it takes to make any kind of power with it is silly.
I maxed the living heck out of my supercharger (To the point of killing the new bearings in under 10k miles trying to urk that last bit of power out of it) and still ended up with maybe ~275whp. Just sad.
With the CXracing turbo kit now an option you can literally put together a turbo kit for less then a supercharger in many cases. It makes SO much more sense. A turbo kits power should START at 275whp and go up as high as you want to push it.
In a nut shell, Turbo > supercharger.
That CXRacing kit is also largely unproven. That manufacturer has a history of shoddy quality and fitment issues, so the reliability just isn't there. I considered going with this kit, but ultimately decided that risking cracked manifolds just wasn't worth it.
It's a trade off that a lot of people are not going to be willing to make.
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02-09-2014, 06:58 AM
#10
Contributing Member
I don't think it's fair to rule out the TRD supercharger entirely. I agree that in a perfect world a turbo is better than a supercharger, but you're leaving out the "practicality" element. Not everyone is looking for max power. The supercharger came as a Toyota option, so that alone gives a lot of inherent benefits to the SC. It's a lot simpler to install. Dealerships are already familiar with it. It has a proven history of reliability. You don't have to screw around with oil lines, etc.
That CXRacing kit is also largely unproven. That manufacturer has a history of shoddy quality and fitment issues, so the reliability just isn't there. I considered going with this kit, but ultimately decided that risking cracked manifolds just wasn't worth it.
It's a trade off that a lot of people are not going to be willing to make.
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That CXRacing kit is also largely unproven. That manufacturer has a history of shoddy quality and fitment issues, so the reliability just isn't there. I considered going with this kit, but ultimately decided that risking cracked manifolds just wasn't worth it.
It's a trade off that a lot of people are not going to be willing to make.
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Also dealers are not familiar with it from what I have seen (when I mentioned to the parts guy that mine was supercharged he didn't even know it was an option, then a few of the mechanics wanted to see under the hood ect), but then who takes their truck to the dealer to be ripped off anyways?
02-09-2014, 09:56 AM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
The Turbo kit does sound like a great setup but there's on major roadblock: I live in California. Aftermarket turbo's don't pass smog, unless you've done it illegally. The S/C kit is California smog legal since Toyota went through all the hassle to get it approved. I really wish it was possible though, even though I don't have the ability to do the work myself, even after having it installed by a shop it would still be about the same price as a S/C is new.
That being said, thanks for the input everyone. Looks like with playing with pressure/nozzle sizes I can find a happy medium of A/F mix. I think I'll be putting in a wideband with an A/F gauge and boost gauge as well to help monitor (as well as a low fluid indicator).
That being said, thanks for the input everyone. Looks like with playing with pressure/nozzle sizes I can find a happy medium of A/F mix. I think I'll be putting in a wideband with an A/F gauge and boost gauge as well to help monitor (as well as a low fluid indicator).
02-09-2014, 12:08 PM
#13
Registered User
Sorry forgot you had a 91, I have looked into getting a turbo but after researching quite a bit to do it right it will cost some loot have you been over to the 22ret forums? lots of good info but the forum is pretty dead compared to here but still active. Jeff Mosk runs the forums and he has some pretty good info on his sight might take a look and just read up a bit
Here is his site http://www.well.com/user/mosk/
I know you have a 3.0 but some info might be good
Here is his site http://www.well.com/user/mosk/
I know you have a 3.0 but some info might be good
Last edited by Discombobulated; 02-09-2014 at 12:29 PM.
02-10-2014, 03:28 AM
#15
Registered User
FYI, if you pick up a '99+ 4Runner with the California emissions (two catalytic converters), it has a wideband sensor. Toyota calls it an Air / Fuel Ratio sensor. You can more or less see your AFRs with a scan tool.
02-10-2014, 05:25 AM
#16
Contributing Member
Correct, not to mention the later year motors take to boost better (98+ in particular).
02-10-2014, 09:32 AM
#17
Registered User
02-10-2014, 11:23 AM
#18
Contributing Member
02-10-2014, 12:17 PM
#19
Registered User
I sort of suspect my wife's '96 Cali emissions 4Runner has a wideband. It's a different part number than the 49 state version, costs more.
About the only almost completely unrelated reason I'd think that is that the DIY wideband I got back around 2003-ish used a mid 90's Honda Civic Cali emission O2 sensor. Something about the CA tune required a WB instead of NB for whatever reason.
About the only almost completely unrelated reason I'd think that is that the DIY wideband I got back around 2003-ish used a mid 90's Honda Civic Cali emission O2 sensor. Something about the CA tune required a WB instead of NB for whatever reason.
