rpeAMP

Between 1st and 2nd gears (5 spd.) it is hard to get into gear and sometimes grinds going from 2nd to 1st if I'm not very very close to being dead stop.

The thing is, my clutch seems nice and strong, doesn't slip (not unless I accidentally smoke it), and I have discovered that it helps a bit if I double-clutch between gears.

Any idea if it is indeed the clutch (maybe the linkage or the fact that maybe the clutch isn't fully letting go?) or a transmission problem? Fluid doesn't matter one way or another as far as I can tell. Is it possible that the master or slave cylinder is broken causing the clutch not to engage fully (i.e. gear grinding)?

Transmission (including clutch) seems incredibly strong and robust; offroading is not a problem and there is no noise or anything indicative of a problem relating to the transmission whatsoever.

tenfourtyeight

I've always been told never to put it in 1st unless you are at complete stop. My dad told me, "You know when you're using a 'stop' as a 'yeild,' and you come close to stopping? Either put it back in 2nd, or stop completely and go to 1st."

I've thought I was close enough to stopping a few times, and it grinded (ground? ), and my tranny and clutch are fine. So I just never put it in 1st while rolling even a little.

Also, years ago when I knew nothing of manual trannies, he told me he'd kick my ass if I downshifted into 1st to slow down.

So... maybe go a little slower when going into first?

rpeAMP

Thanks for your reply! I was using the example of going into 1st from 2nd simply as an example. There's NO way, especially under the current conditions, that I could actually use 1st to slow down whatsoever.

My main problem is when I'm starting out shifting from 1st to 2nd. When shifting, it takes about 2 seconds for my shifter to be "accepted" by my shifter/clutch, therefore making the shift sloppy and rough. Sometimes in the mornings it will actually grind a bit. No other gears seem to have this problem at all.

tenfourtyeight

Oh, sorry! :pat:

I read it '2nd to 1st,' not '1st to 2nd.'

Don't mind me...

EWAYota

just out of curiousity, read this thread and see if thats what your discribing. if it is, its an easy fix, if its not that, then we'll work on it a little more.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...hlight=shifter

rpeAMP

Actually I have given that a shot...:-(

Just for clarification, mine will go into gear just fine when the engine is NOT running, however when it is running and also when the truck is moving (ie. under acceleration), 2nd gear is the worst. It literally takes 1-2 seconds for the gear to mesh with the shifter if that makes sense.

Are we looking at synchros here?

My99

Have you tried changing the fluid? Also, depending on what the temps are like in your area, when the tranny's cold it will likely be kinda notchy. Or does this happen even when the tranny's warmed up. If your clutch seems to be fully engaging and disengaging for all the other gears then i'd say it's a problem in your tranny.

rpeAMP

Thanks for the reply.

I will try changing both clutch and tranny fluids. I have flushed the tranny at least 3 times since I bought it two years ago, but I will have it changed again. I have never had the clutch fluid changed, so that will be interesting to see if it helps anything. I probably should also have my master and slave cylinders looked at.

Actually, when it's cold outside in the morning, 2nd gear is unaccessible for the first few stop signs, however this might be due to high idle. I just go from 1st to 3rd and I can live with that. The interesting thing is that during warm weather, 2nd gear is actually SMOOTHER for the first few shift cycles when the engine is cold. Don't know the reasoning behind that....

So, to answer your question, it is bad at normal temperature.

Here's an interesting point: the more acceleration in 1st gear, the harder it is to shift into 2nd. It's a direct relationship. If I totally redline 1st, then I can expect a 2-3 second time between when I pull the shifter down to second and it is accepted my 2nd gear. If I try to force it, a bit of grinding occurs. (note that I don't normally drive this way, but I was simply testing trying to eliminate variables for this post). Double-clutching does help, but I'm not going to deal with that.

MTL_4runner

I would bet money that it is either the clutch or the syncros.
If the clutch is not disengaging that could be it but I doubt it.
Sounds more like you need a 2nd gear synchro.

rpeAMP

Any idea how much this will cost me?

My main concern here is that I get all the info I can before I take it in because I don't want them to replace the entire transmission, because I KNOW that the transmission is not weak or in need of replacing.

I've had bad luck here with independent shops, so I'm thinking I should take this to the dealer? I really want Toyota parts in components such as a transmission...

TechWrench

Sounds like worn syncros, the 2nd gear syncros usually get the most use and therefore are most likely to go first. If you can go from neutral to first at a complete stop without problems, it is probably not the clutch.

rpeAMP

Question:

Do I have to replace ALL the synchros at once or can they be separately replaced. The reason I ask is because the other gears shift fine.

I realize that I will have to fork out the cash as they will have to drop the tranny, but I am REALLY not looking to replace the entire transmission anytime soon.

My99

The way you explain the way that it takes longer for you to shift to 2nd the longer you stay in 1st, makes me say synchro's. Basically you're having to wait for your tranny and engine to reach the same speeds (waiting for the engine to slow down) so that you can engage the next gear (synchro's make it so you don't have to wait). I had a similar problem on my old DSM. Just don't force it and it won't grind. If it's not a big deal I wouldn't worry about it. Some better synthetic fluid *might* help, but I doubt it would do a whole lot. Oh, btw, i didn't mean to change the clutch fluid, although it might not hurt either. However, if all other gears are normal, especially 1st gear, then I'd bet it's your 2nd gear synchro.

rpeAMP

If I tried to go into 1st gear with the wheels moving (even barely), it might grind some depending on the speed, however this doesn't matter for me as I simply use 1st gear when starting. My main issue is going from 1st to 2nd. It is a big deal because it makes the shifting rough as I have to wait for the engine to spin down which throws off momentum.

So should I take it to Toyota to have the work done or somewhere else? How much am I looking at?

My99

Not too sure. I know a friend of mine had his 91 tranny rebuilt (it was popping out of gear, bad prob's) for about 900 bucks. So shouldn't be too bad I wouldn't think.

rpeAMP

Do they have to rebuild the entire tranny just to replace one synchro?

TechWrench

I hate to use an 'old' trans shop reply, but it really depends on what they find when they open it up. Believe me, I know that any thought of tranny work makes one think they are going to stick a giant vacuum in your wallet and clean it out. But I would think that any reputable shop would not be able to give you a firm repair estimate until they could verify what damage was done, and what parts were needed. It comes down to trusting the shop you take it to. If you can't do the work yourself, and don't have a 'friend' in the business your choices are limited.

I don't want to get too long winded here, but let me try to explain it from the point of view of the repair shop. If they give you a price for just replacing the one syncro, and do only that, it would be a big gamble on their part to offer any type of warranty that would work. If, six months later, something else went bad that they didn't replace the first time. they might be legally not responsible, but the customer would still be pissed. So the smart thing for the shop to do is replace anything that is suspect the first time to reduce the chance of a comeback. I'm not saying that they will replace every part in the unit, but a good shop will know that certain parts should be changed every time you rebuild a trans, just to be sure.

rpeAMP

Alamo Toyota here quoted me roughly around $1500 which I thought was reasonable. I might as well go ahead and bite the bullet and do this.

TechWrench

Good luck, let us know how you make out.