02yoyo

After hearing this I will never purchase from this dealership or have any service done unless it is a warranty repair. My friend has a mint 2002 Taco. It was stock except for an after market air filter. He installed a Magniflow exhaust system and shortly after his check engine light came on. He went round and round trying to figure out what was causing it. If he disconnected the battery it would go off for about 70 miles and then come back on. He went to Advanced and Auto Zone and they gave him the same error code. He called Magniflow multiple times and they had no clue. He disassembled everything about 5 times to make sure he didn't miss something. After about a month of this check engine light driving him crazy he decide to take to to the dealership. He asked just to have it diagnosed. They came back and said bad catalytic converter. $1600.00 to replace. He paid them $80 bucks for the diag and left. He was almost ready to buy an after market CC when a light went on in his head about something he read. He purchased a $30 O2 sensor and replaced the one that sits either right before or right after the CC. Problem fixed for $30 bucks and about a half hour of labor. In short, the dealership was going to charge $1680.00 to replace his Catalytic Converter when there was nothing wrong with it. It's very possible they would have put the same bad 02 sensor back on after replacing the CC and then 70 miles later, when the check engine light came back on, charged him another who knows how much to diagnose and fix the real problem. I don't know about you but this [EDIT: upsets me a lot] Are the dealerships just that shady or are they simply idiots that don't know how to properly diagnose a mechanical problem. He said at this dealership, they don't call them mechanics, but rather parts installers. I would say that's pretty accurate. Any monkey can replace parts, I guess it takes a true mechanic to actually correctly diagnose a problem. Thoughts anyone? Anyone on here work for a Toyota dealership that would care to chime in?

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Texas_Ace

Personally i won't go near a dealership of any kind for any service (or course i have never had a car under waranty either).

The only thing i will go there for is parts i can't get anywhere else.

I am lucky to have a good mechnic that i trust and does great work. If there is ever something i can't/don't want to do he gets the job.

Dealers ofthen don't know squat about there own cars. I know that i know more then all the sales persons about the cars they have. And there is usually only 1 real mechanic in the shop that actually knows anything.

__________________
Just call me TA

2000 Toyota 4runner Limited 3.4l V6 Auto SUPERCHARGED, URD 7th, 2.2 pulley, Doug Thorley Headers - My truck

All the Mods that can be done to 3rd Gens Thread

My thoughts on Gun control summed up quite nice:

“Gun control runs aground on this simple fact: people who would use guns to break laws would also break laws to use guns”

MadCityRich

I don't have anything against my local dealership. They've done pretty well for me over the years. You do have to be a smart customer and help guide them. If you have a problem, think through the possible issues before handing it over. I've had way more bad experiences with independent shops than my local dealership. I'm not saying all Toyota dealerships are good, just mine.

MadCityRich

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Alright, when I say your name, you say 'here.' And we will assume 'here' is short for 'here I am...rock you like a hurricane. -Ignignokt

2000t4rAKS

Couldn't agree with you more TA. I think sometimes I know way more about my rig from this forum than a mechanic at a shop, especially at the stealership. I remember one time I argued with this guy at the parts counter because he said that my 2000 4Runner did not have a fuel filter and that it is all internal. I got tired of arguing and took him outside to my runner and physically had to show him. WOW!!! Need less to say, I am not having that dealer do any maintenance on my rig. I am glad I found a yotatech on here (toytec76) that lives close to me who does any maintenance that I cannot do myself.

__________________
2000 4Runner Limited 4x4
Kenwood DNX7100 HU
Alpine SPR-17S Component Speakers

jason191918

My abs light is on, and I diagnosed it to be the ABS ECU. I bought one and put it in w/ no luck. I stopped at the stealer and they told me it had to be programmed. I drove back the next day, and tore the ABS ECU out in their parking lot during a snow storm, just to have another guy say they can't program it.

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JASON

1992 Pickup V6, 4x4, 5 speed, SR5, 300,000 miles young, every option except automatic tranny

31x10.5R15 | K&N FIPK | Cherry Bomb | 3" BL | 4 110W KC Light Bar | 6'6" Western Plow | 800W 10" Sony | 850W Sound Storm | 2 4" Obcon | 4 1" Rockford Fosgate Tweeters | 2 High Pass Crossovers | 2 High-Low Pass Crossovers | 2 6.5" Rockford Fosgate | Pioneer 4x50W Head Unit | Mechanical Oil Pressure Gage | Lack of EGR | Blinker Mod

Texas_Ace

Speaking of ABS lights, mine comes on from time to time and i can't for the life of me figure out why...

But yeah, they all need to get together on what they can and can't do.

I had a bad remote once and went in there to check their price a new one (knowing that it would be to high but wanted to check anyways). One guys says they don't sell remote, the next says they do but don't have mine, the next says they do have mine but have to order it and it costs $230 _ programming and then i get one of those rare guys that actuall knows something.

He takes my remote out to my truck, starts pressing a set of buttons, locks and such and within seconds my old remote is working fine again!

The trick is getting that 1 guy that knows something.

__________________
Just call me TA

2000 Toyota 4runner Limited 3.4l V6 Auto SUPERCHARGED, URD 7th, 2.2 pulley, Doug Thorley Headers - My truck

All the Mods that can be done to 3rd Gens Thread

My thoughts on Gun control summed up quite nice:

“Gun control runs aground on this simple fact: people who would use guns to break laws would also break laws to use guns”

blarchitect

Its only going to get worse. With the bottom falling out of the financial sector nobody is buying new cars and the dealerships are struggling to maintain profits.

littlerunner

here we go.I do wrk at a dealer service department & do I guess get somewhat offended when all dealers are lumped into BAD.have you been to every dealer in the country to make this assumption or just basing your opinion on the dealer you have been to.There are I'm sure plenty of people out there who will take advantage but not all of us.Classic scenario following,be patient.
1)Joe Public takes his 4runner to Billy Bobs repair shop.Billy Bob says needs this widget for $200.
2)Joe says put it on.3)2 days later has same problem.Instead of going back to Billy Bobs,Joe goes to Backyard Barneys.4)Barney says needs this widget for $300.5)Joe says fix it.6)Next day has same issue.7)Takes to dealer.Dealer says needs a different widget for $100.8)Joe is reluctant,says has already spent $500 on widgets but agrees to fix.9)Dealer replaces correct widget.Joe happy with car,but tells everyone who will listen dealer charged him $600 to rpl this one widget.On top of all that 3yrs later when Joe has a problem totally unrelated he goes back to dealer.Says "I've had this problem EVER SINCE you wrkd on.Wants fixed for free.When dealer doesnt fix for free dealer is now the biggest crook in town.Welcome to the world of a dealer service dept.Yes we do make mistakes from time to time.But if everything you do comes out perfect come see me & youve got a job

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91 4runner,5spd,bone stock,rblt 3.0 @ 303,000 miles.OME 900 rear springs,front & rear shocks.97 runner wifeys

Texas_Ace

I don't lump all dealer in one pot, just the bulk of them. It is kind of like lawyers (although dealers are far and away angels compaered to them, just an example), the bulk of them are no good but they give the good s ones a bad name.

I know when we lived in the country the dealers out there were good, since if they made a mistake they knew they would not get any more buissness. And those i pretty well trust as much as any mechanic.

But the city ones, i have only seen a handful of dealerships in the city that are any good or care once you have the car. Most of them ARE idiots.

This is why i prefer a good mecahanic that works on all cars. Since most of the time the dealer doesn't know anything more about there own cars then them, just take it to someone i know i can trust. Though those are rare as well.

So in the end, if you want it done right, do it yourself.

And I do understand your story above, my opiouin is not based on anything like that.

__________________
Just call me TA

2000 Toyota 4runner Limited 3.4l V6 Auto SUPERCHARGED, URD 7th, 2.2 pulley, Doug Thorley Headers - My truck

All the Mods that can be done to 3rd Gens Thread

My thoughts on Gun control summed up quite nice:

“Gun control runs aground on this simple fact: people who would use guns to break laws would also break laws to use guns”

blarchitect

So the Toyota dealership in this case is Billy Bob or is it Backyard Barney?

TC4RNR

at least you have one thing can to is to call Toyota Customer Experience Center, Phone: 800-331-4331

get the names handy and be straight forward. it's better than doing nothing.

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http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...gca/agreed.jpg
94 4Runner, SR5 3.0V6, 4WD, 5spd: SOLD
99 4Runner, SR5, 3.4L 4WD, 5spd. LC80 wheels, SS 1.2 lift, Marlin 1200 Clutch, ARB front bumper, BruceTS rear bumper, roof busket, hitch mount tire carrier, Tundra Brakes, Brembo rotors, BudBuilt skid, Lightforce 240 Blitz, PiAA HID, Stubb's HD-SKO sliders. ScanGauge II

04 4Runner SR5 V6 4WD. 265/75/16 BFG KO, FJC coils and silver Bilstein shocks, Scion H/U.

BT17R

What did the OBD code call for? It should be on the RO. If it said defective cat, it's hard to blame the dealer.

BTW, I had the same exact thing happen to a friend with a pre-OBD II Camry. The code called for a new cat, we replaced the O2 sensors instead, and it's been good ever since.

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'07 FJ Cruiser TRD SE 6M/T

lexustech

how long has he driven since the sensor was replaced? if the sensor was replaced because of a cat. efficiency code the light is gonna be back on after a couple of drive cycles, yes sometimes you will have bad experiences with some dealers, but when it comes down to it no one in the world knows your vehicle better than the dealer who works on them day in and day out

Texas_Ace

We will just agre to disagree then.

Since i know more than the avarge tech at any of the many dealers i have taken cars to (mostly for friends). Yes, like i said above there ARE the good techs that actually know what is going on and what to do. I will not argue about those at all.

But the avarge joe blow that works as a tech don't know squat about cars at all, much less about the brand they work on.

__________________
Just call me TA

2000 Toyota 4runner Limited 3.4l V6 Auto SUPERCHARGED, URD 7th, 2.2 pulley, Doug Thorley Headers - My truck

All the Mods that can be done to 3rd Gens Thread

My thoughts on Gun control summed up quite nice:

“Gun control runs aground on this simple fact: people who would use guns to break laws would also break laws to use guns”

X-AWDriver

I guess I've been lucky since the dealer has been great to me (Burt Toy in Denver) and I have a mechanic friend who runs a Honda tuning shop but works on everything.

__________________
'99 4Runner Highlander 4wd
E-locker,rear diff and deckplate mod * 265/75/16 Nitto TerraGrapplers * Yakima Load Warrior rack * clear corners/signals * Tacoma skidplate * Silverstar lamps/fogs
Alpine CDA-9831,Bazooka EL Series 250w amp,MTX 10" sub

littlerunner

So the Toyota dealership in this case is Billy Bob or is it Backyard Barney?

Now thats not right at all.I thought we were all friends here

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91 4runner,5spd,bone stock,rblt 3.0 @ 303,000 miles.OME 900 rear springs,front & rear shocks.97 runner wifeys

littlerunner

[quote=littlerunner;50797486]So the Toyota dealership in this case is Billy Bob or is it Backyard Barney?

Thats not right at all.I thought we were all friends here.

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91 4runner,5spd,bone stock,rblt 3.0 @ 303,000 miles.OME 900 rear springs,front & rear shocks.97 runner wifeys

Ironmike4x4

I agree with you Littlerunner. I work at a GM dealer and often people associate us with con artists and whatnot. I can see it from both points of views. Yes the dealer charges more, but we have much more training and availability of specialty tools than Joe Blow shops. Eventually I would forsee most vehicles becoming much more advanced to where only a dealer can work on vehicles (i.e. programming modules). I feel our dealer has both good and bad techs. I can name 4 techs in my shop that I would feel very safe to have work on my grandmother's vehicle, the other side I wouldn't even let them touch anything since I know their methods of work (improper shortcuts, not torquing certain things, etc..). I always like to advise people to get the names of the techs that have worked on your vehicle. If they do a great job then ask for them to personally work on your vehicle. If you are not pleased with their work then request them not to work on it next time, giving them a bad reputation.

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1998 4Runner SR5, Surco Safari rack, diff breather mod, Cobra WXST II CB radio, 31" Winston ATs, clear corner/bumper lens, hitch mount backup lamps, PCV catch can.

Team420

I agree, I know first hand, i worked in a yota garage almost 10 yrs ago, I as well as many others in the shop didnt know squat at the time,but yet they still had me do jobs i was not qualified to do, they had 1 awesome tech that would run around and "help" ev1 else on top of his jobs.. to my understanding this is very common, not just to dealers but all larger garages... at least the ones i have worked in

__________________
:
93 Runner, 3vze, auto, 4.88 gears, 31" tires, mostly stock, 255k and counting
DD:
94 runner, 3vze, geared 4.56, m/t, 31/10.5/15, only 233k on the clock
Project:
91 p/u, 3vze, m/t, 2" body lift, 4.10 gears, 33's, 235k on the clock.
It's becoming an addiction.

AmyRW

I don't lump all dealers together, but in my case, I just feel the dealership didn't want to listen to me. When I bought my '04 Nissan Armada, the brakes were squeaking pretty bad. So, I went online and found a technical service bulletin about the brakes. I also found many lemons with brake issues. Within the first week of owning it, I was back at the dealership explaining that I felt the brake squeaking was due to a lemon issue. The individual I was dealing was a good guy and after I had to talk my head off and show him the technical service bulletin, he finally looked into it (and found the 1st brakes were replaced at 16k). Of course, he didn't really believe me still, but I got the pads replaced on the front - they had put aftermarket pads on so were replaced with the right pads (however, was never told they ONLY replaced the front). Within 3-4 months, it was squealing again. Now, the back brakes and park brake were replaced at my expense. The dealership I bought it from was a madza dealer so they sent me to their sister dealership because they were Nissan. Within a year, I was having this problem a third time. EVEN though, all the records were available, the manager did not believe me that there were any repeated brake issues on this vehicle. So, I did another total brake job on the vehicle and I've owned it for just 2 years, 4 months. I had a huge argument with this manager where I literally told him that he must think I'm pretty stupid - he said that I must be driving it too hard (I drive the speed limit and never brake hard), then he claimed I must be driving dirt roads (I said it was all highway driving). He even told me if they found dirt on the brakes (because I said I would be back at the slightest minor noise), that he wouldn't warranty the brakes at all. He was a total jerk.

I'm not saying that it is just dealerships, but there is a certain type of power they believe they hold over the customer - as if customer service doesn't matter unlike a little shop where if you don't treat your customer right, they won't come back. I think the mentality is somewhat different. Also, I found it quite rude and arrogant to believe a woman is not smart enough to read and understand problems on a vehicle. This too is an issue. Of course, I'm not a mechanic, but if it walks like, talks like.......probably IS....

__________________
'98 4Runner SR5 2WD 4 Cyl., 152,xxx mi.

Upgraded '99 Limited Leather seats 1/2 done
Working on '99 cup holder mod. w/ blue illumination

“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.”- Psalm 14:1

James Dean

Did any one say what the code was that Advanced and Auto Zone read? I don't think dealerships are the only ones to blame. There are good and bad service writers and techs no matter where you go. Unfortunately most places are just parts changers nowadays, no real diagnosticators left. Sounds like your friend needs to be on YOTATECH.

Any time you change intake or exhaust componants it can effect your sensors.

__________________
Custom painter and Toyota Stripe and decal supplier.
http://jamesdeancreations.com
Custom Safari and Crawlin accessories.
http://www.jamesdeancreations.com/4runner_project.htm

98runner210

I have mixed feeling about the dealership I use. I had a problem with my rig running bad and flashing CEL blah blah blah. Turns out it was a loose crank bolt and worn crank gear from the loose bolt. Anyways I took it to them before I knew what was wrong. The service advisor was very nice over the phone. I told him everything I had replaced and everything that I had diagnosed/cleaned. He asked me to make a list when I drop my truck off so they can eliminate that off their checklist. When I drop my truck off some lady who thinks she has the biggest balls in the dept gets me signed in. I tell her about the list and give it to her and she rudely says that I am not a Toyota Mechanic so anything I did was not relative and I can throw my list away. She says they are going to try plugs and wires and what not and it owuld be at my expense. I told her to do whatever but if it doesn't cure the issue to take it off and put my stuff on and not charge me. Well 2 days later they call and say they think I have bent valves. Here is that conversation:

toyota- we're pretty sure you have bent valves

me- then why does it sometimes run good and sometimes run bad? a bent valve is a bent valve and performance wouldnt vary.

toyota- well.........it's gonna cost about $550 to remove your heads and check.

me- $550 just to check?! Can't you do that with a compression test?

toyota- well....................i can look into that.

me- how would I get bent valves anyways?

toyota- timing belt may have snapped before you bought it

me- i bought it with 59k miles and isn't this a non-interference motor?

toyota- oh yeah..........we'll give u call back

they called back and said they ran all diagnostics and couldn't find anything. i said so once you complete your checklist and can't figure it out you are done? they were like well yeah. I said seems like your trained more on reading the computer then actual mechanics. they had nothing to say. a friend (certified cadillac tech) figured out my rig.

one the plus side that dealership is always fair on their parts prices and the prts guy will help you any way they can with diagrams schematics etc.

sorry that was a long ass post

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'98 4Runner Limited White w/ silver flares

linuxrunner

There are bad dealerships just like there are bad Independant mechanics.

Just because i took my truck to the mechanic down the street and he made a mistake ordered a $800 part and didn't fix my problem i wouldn't say... "never go to a mechanic, they suck and don't know squat"

I would say don't go to the mechanic down the street, they are not good at diagnosing problems...

Sure there are going to be bad dealerships, but for some reason people seem to think that a Toyota dealership = a Toyota dealership. They are not all the same, some good some bad.


Also when you bring in your rig about things like this you can't just drop it off and say figure it out. (i guess you could, but you would be a jerk) Let them know that this started after you installed a new part, and what part. Let them know you took it to get the codes read and what the code was.


I want to know what the code was... I agree with the others if it was throwing a bad CC code they probably looked at the code and said, "looks like a bad CC those will run you $1100" what more did you want them to tell you if you only bring it in for a diag session? They have no way to know that the code is not correct until they dig into it.

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88 4runner 22re

denpacc

According to my Toyota tech who had practiced at dealerships for 17ish years before becoming a transit train mechanic, says that the problem lies in the dealership system of fixing cars. Cost/charge is dependent upon how much time is alloted to fix/replace/diagnose said problem. In other words, the tech diagnoses the problem and then gets a certain, specific time to fix the problem. If the tech goes over the quoted time he/she gets paid only for the time alloted. In other words it is piece work. Problem is that many techs cut corners to make their "quota" time. Then it's up to the good techs to fix the problem when the vehicle is returned cause it wasn't fixed properly the first time.

My yota tech got fed up with the "piece work" dealership system and got out of working at dealerships. As a matter of fact he was so burned by the dealership system he got out of car mechanics entirely. (He worked at two different Toyota dealerships). Essentially he got tired of fixing the incompetant tech mistakes... and there were a lot of them.

He said the good techs would correctly diagnose the problem and fix it properly. The not so good techs would get stumped, not know what to do and basically fake it or cut corners which lead to all sorts of problems. Unfortunately it was the customers who paid the price.

As some people have mentioned already, good techs do exist at the dealerships, you just have to find them and always request they do the work on your vehicle.

Cheers

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1997 3.4 4Runner, 5spd, e-locker, SS#1.1 Lift, 265/75/R16 Dick Cepek FCII
Coming soon: ARB front bumper with T-Max or Warn winch, sliders, snorkel, etc.

pius222

I am always curious, the person who write you up when you pull up at the service dept, are they experienced tech themselves? Or they are just sales or customer service reps?

Sometimes, I feel like I want to go back there and see my car up on the jack and talk to the tech who's working on it, rather than sitting at the waiting area drinking coffee, flipping through magazines and don't know what the hell they are doing in the back.

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1999 4Runner SR5 4WD
All stock now, Hella 700ff, Optima 34R Red Top, Nitto Terra Grapplers 265/75/16.