Toyota Access Pricing

Grimace · 10-31-2004, 11:39 AM

I have a question for you guys concerning the pricing of Toyotas, particularly in Canada. Toyota Canada has a one price policy where all of its dealers have to sell their new vehicles for the same price. Its suppose to protect the buyer from dealers ripping you off and save you time from shopping around. However toyota now lists these vehicles at MSRP. Its seems very difficult if not impossible to get the dealers to move on the price. Who pays the asking price? I find it very hard to pay MSRP for a vehicle regardless of the model.

Is this against the law? I remember seeing an article in the Vancouver Sun saying that Toyota acknowledged this issue, but I have heard nothing since then as to enforcement. What have you CDN guys done to reduce the price from MSRP?

I'm looking at 2005 4runner or a 20005 Tacoma. If I can't get a decent price, I'm afraid I might have to got to a Pathfinder just because of this.

This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Yotatech!

Masato · 10-31-2004, 02:31 PM

It doesn't look like any dealers will move on the price since they'va pretty much all agreed to stick to the access pricing formula. Toyota has put a lot of resources into this program so I can't see it changing any time soon.

As for it breaking any laws, I can't see how it would. Governments can't regulate pricing in the open markets. Its only in heavily regulated monopolies that they have any real powers. If that wasn't the case, then the capital market system would be in jeopardy.

My old man just bought a 04 dub cab Tundra ltd. He couldn't stand the idea of paying MSRP but none of the 4 dealers he went to would move on the price. We went to the dealers ready to pay cash and walk out that day with a truck but no dealer would move on the access price (which is actually set a measly few bucks under MSRP) so he bit the bullet and paid the access price.

Oscar · 11-01-2004, 08:31 AM

Here's a little snippet from an article I read in June:

Toyota kills no-haggle sales price strategy
Source: http://www.globemegawheels.com/servl...TOYOTA17/cars/

By GREG KEENAN
AUTO INDUSTRY REPORTER
Thursday, June 17, 2004 - Page B1

Toyota Canada Inc. is abandoning the no-haggle price strategy that was a key feature of its Access Toyota sales system, a radical overhaul of the way the company sells vehicles that is being closely watched by its rivals, but is also the subject of lawsuits in Quebec and British Columbia.

Oscar · 11-01-2004, 08:36 AM

I think there is some sorta of illegal act going on under the Access Toyota program. When I purchased my Matrix last year, I found out, from a Vancouver dealership, that their dealership would get punished if they didn't follow the pricing.

On another note:
After reading about the end of Access Toyota, I tried seeing what CarCostCanada had to say about Toyota dealer's invoice pricing and the Access Toyota program. This is what they said.

"Comment by Armada Data Corp C/S team:Richard, even though Access Pricing is technically no longer in effect, Toyota dealers are in a transition period at this time. We are unfortunately not able to obtain a discount on Toyota vehicles at present. Please let us know if there is another make that you are interested in. Regards - Carcostcanada.com C/S Team 1"

Babypig · 11-01-2004, 08:57 AM

Just stay out of Downtown Toyota on Burrard. That place is king of the rip offs in my experience. The dealership on Lougheed in Burnaby just past Boundary is way better in my experience.

Praufet · 11-01-2004, 09:44 AM

I don't know about the laws in canada, but here in american, the Sherman Antitrust acts makes price fixing per se illegal.

Grimace · 11-01-2004, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babypig

Just stay out of Downtown Toyota on Burrard. That place is king of the rip offs in my experience. The dealership on Lougheed in Burnaby just past Boundary is way better in my experience.

I assume you are talking about Regency Toyota. Their service department are great guys. BUT the salesman are the same as everywhere else. They keep giving me the same story. Totally Bull@#$@. Everyone pays the same price to make it safe for the average buyer.

As well I confirm your experience with Downtown Toyota. They are the worst guys to deal with.

Grimace · 11-01-2004, 11:18 AM

OK, here's my story.

I just got off the phone with Toyota Canada. I spoke to guy named Justin in customer service. I told him about the articles in the Globe & Mail and the Vancouver Sun. He put me on hold to speak to someone more knowledgeable about the issue. Ten minutes later, he then told me that Toyota's response to the articles was they changed their one price policy (called the drive away rpice) to MSRP. Toyota now lists MSRP to better compare their vehicles to their competitors So I asked him what the difference was between MSRP and the Access price and who in their right mind would pay MSRP. As well, I told him about the dealers stating they would be penalized if they would sold below MSRP. All I got was silence. He was so dumbfounded!!!!!!!!!! He again went to his supervisor.

5 minutes later, I told him what they doing maybe illegal and that the BBB should investigate the issue. I like to create trouble sometimes. So now Toyota of Canada's review team is going to call me to discuss the issue. Whats a review team? I really don't know what I have gotten myself into. It should be fun though. Any ideas? What should I say?

As well, its interesting to note they didn't take me seriously until they did a search of all the vehicles my family has purchased from toyota in the past 10 years before the new pricing system. He wanted to know if I was serious or not.

TM93_SR5 · 11-01-2004, 11:37 AM

Sounds like their "review team" is going to put you into the proverbial run around. Those guys will probably call you and tell you to call up the customer service, or keep sending you to different departments.

You might be able to get a corporate override on the pricing - but I don't see that as likely.

Have you tried contacting any dealerships near the US? You might be able to get the car shipped to you for $500 or so - which could be worth it if the price is a few thousand less.

Just a thought (or look for some ads from the US and try to get them to price match it in canada - and if they won't - claim discrimination)

Oscar · 11-01-2004, 11:46 AM

I didn't call Toyota Canada, but I have filed a complaint to the Competition Bureau of Canada, asking them to explain how Toyota Canada is not in violation of the Competition Act.

If we could get enough public support out of this, then maybe something can be done to change this.

stevrock · 11-01-2004, 11:50 AM

If you get a used car, say maybe a 2003, you could try to beat them down there. Remeber, make their price drop down to yours.

Masato · 11-01-2004, 11:25 PM

Hmmm... I wonder if I smell a class action suit brewing somewhere....

Grimace · 11-02-2004, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masato

Hmmm... I wonder if I smell a class action suit brewing somewhere....

I called the Competition Bureau of Canada yesterday. I'm expecting a call from them in the next few days. I think everyone who has been effected or is planning on purchasing a new vehicle in the near future get the facts straight and protect themselves. If you have had a bad experience with the Canadian Toyota Dealers ( BC dealers inparticular) please contact the Competition Bureau of Canada and tell them your issues.

Here's the link to Competition Bureau of Canada

This is why we pay the taxes, but we do not need to pay useless amounts of money to the stealers.

Grimace · 11-02-2004, 08:48 AM

Here's the report from the Globe and Mail. Maybe we should buy our trucks in Ontario?

Toyota kills no-haggle sales price strategy

By GREG KEENAN
Thursday, June 17, 2004 Page - B1 (860 words)
AUTO INDUSTRY REPORTER Print this Article

Toyota Canada Inc. is abandoning the no-haggle price strategy that was a key feature of its Access Toyota sales system, a radical overhaul of the way the company sells vehicles that is being closely watched by its rivals, but is also the subject of lawsuits in Quebec and British Columbia.

The move to eliminate one-price selling for new cars, trucks, minivans and sport utility vehicles comes about one month before Access Toyota is scheduled to be introduced in Ontario. The country's biggest new vehicle market is scheduled to be the last region of the country to adopt the program, which one industry source described as a "revolutionary" change in the traditional method of buying a new vehicle.

In addition to one-price selling, the program involves training sales people to make them more customer-friendly, changing the sales process to reduce the time spent in a dealership and use of the Internet, to buy instead of entering an outlet.

The program has been in place since 2000, when it was started in Manitoba before a national rollout to the company's 230 dealers.

"Obviously this is the end of the program as the pricing was the key segment," said one dealer.

Dealers said they were notified of the change in a memorandum from Toyota Canada president Kenji Tomikawa last Friday.

Company officials would not talk about the decision yesterday or reasons for the move.

"We don't have anything to discuss at this time," said spokesman David Stone. Announcements to dealers are "privileged communications which we don't normally talk about."

One dealer suggested that the Canadian sales arm of Toyota Motor Corp. was told to change the program because dealers have become considerably less aggressive in the market, and reduced advertising, for example.

A Quebec lawsuit challenging the pricing practices has not yet been certified as a class-action suit but is proceeding, said Daniel Belleau, a Montreal lawyer who is handling the case.

Court documents filed in the B.C. lawsuit said dealers set prices unlawfully, refused to offer discounts from the Access price and would not offer free options or extra features.

The allegations have not been proven in court and the suit has also not yet been certified as a class-action, lawyer Leslie Mackoff said yesterday.

Access Toyota was a key part of the company's Vision 2010 program, a successful attempt to grab 10 per cent of the Canadian market by 2000. Toyota Canada now has about 12 per cent of the Canadian vehicle market.

But it was also controversial with the federal government. An investigation by the Competition Bureau examined allegations that the monthly setting of prices by dealers in a particular region amounted to price-fixing.

As part of a settlement of that probe last year, Toyota Canada agreed to make it clear to dealers and sales people that they could sell vehicles for less than the Access Toyota price.

In addition, the auto maker agreed to donate $2.3-million to charities as part of the settlement.

The Access program involved more than just one-price selling, although one dealer described that feature as the backbone of the program.

The changes to the traditional cat-and-mouse negotiations that many buyers despise included:

guarantees on interest rates for 30 days so customers purchasing near the end of one month were still eligible for low-interest finance rates even if the programs had expired by the time they picked up their vehicles;

standard charges across the country for the predelivery inspection that dealers perform before customers drive away;

full disclosure of all charges.

The move to end one-price selling is "a huge victory for the consumer," said Paul Timoteo, president of CarCost Canada, a consumer advocacy firm for car buyers that charges a fee for members and helps them get discounts on vehicles.

A CarCost comparison of prices in British Columbia and Ontario, done last month, found transaction prices for Toyota vehicles were in some cases just a few dollars less than the Manufacturers' Suggested Retail Price, compared with prices substantially lower in Ontario.

The biggest discount in British Columbia was on the 2004 Sequoia, an SUV that carries an MSRP of $63,620.

The Sequoia was fetching $63,171 at B.C. dealers, while CarCost members could pay $57,881 in Ontario, a $5,290 difference.

In Manitoba, dealers were asking $63,234, according to the Access Toyota website.

On the 2005 compact Corolla sport model, CarCost members in Ontario could pay $18,528, compared with the set price of $19,954 in British Columbia.

The Automobile Protection Association reached a similar conclusion by examining prices in Montreal, said George Iny, president of that consumer group.

Mr. Iny praised the other elements of the program, such as increased training for sales people and full disclosure of all charges.

"Hopefully they'll be able to keep those," Mr. Iny said.

Dealers in regions where the program has been in place for some time disputed the notion that consumers weren't getting a fair deal.

"The whole process is seamless and so much better for the consumer," said one.

turboale · 11-02-2004, 09:26 AM

Wow,
Its amazing what you can do now a-days...

What are your prices up there? A friend of mine just paid 37k (down from 39) for a 05 4Runner ltd V6 with nav and sunroof. Savannah Toyota claims they are the #1 dealer in the southeast and they have a 110% price match so if you find a quote lower than theirs they will beat it by 10%. Good luck on your purchase!

Grimace · 11-02-2004, 01:58 PM

I guess I'm journalizing everything now.

Maral from Toyota Canada's Review team just called me. She took down all of my information and displeasures as I have meantioned before. I told her about the pricing fixing. From my understanding she said the dealerships are allowed to sell below the MSRP, but its up to them. Its not her exact words as she was very reluctant to answer my questions. She went into a speal how great the Access Pricing was. I asked her if I could go into a dealership and negociate a deal below MSRP. She said she could not "advise" me.

I asked her if I was going to hear anything from her in the future. The answer was NO, however Toyota will look into the situation.

So I got nowhere. I wished I got to ask if Toyota Canada enforces the dealers to sell At MSRP. Any one else wanna call them and complain?

Oscar · 11-04-2004, 06:29 PM

BTW, I was contacted by a person at Canada's Competition Bureau. He says that the only way that Toyota Canada would be in violation of the Competition Act is in Section 61. Section 61 states that the supplier, whether this be Toyota Canada or some other entity, cannot punish a distributor (dealership) for selling a product below a suggested price.

Prior to the Access Toyota abandonment, I was told, by a salesman, that dealer's would get punished for selling below Access price. Today I do not know if this would still be the case.

The Competition Bureau would like to know if anybody has any evidence of this type that says it's still happening. Whether the evidence be a salesman telling you he can't give a deal because he'd catch crap or something else.

If you or anybody knows anything about this, please don't be scared to contact the Competition Bureau of Canada. They say everything you tell them will be kept in confidence.

http://competition.ic.gc.ca/epic/int.../ct02143e.html

Just a few more tidbits about the end to Access Toyota. I really hate how the BC and Alta dealers can get away with selling at full MSRP.

http://www.carcostcanada.com/en/rese...no=894&catid=6

http://www.carcostcanada.com/en/rese...no=895&catid=6

JGage · 11-06-2004, 02:04 PM

In the US, if Toyota tells their dealers: "You must sell a Toyota for 'this" price and no less," that is legal.
If every dealer in the reigon gets together and decides they are all going to sell Toyota's at a certain price, that is illegal... It's price fixing.

Grimace · 12-07-2004, 09:58 AM

Guys,

Oscar and I have been in conversation the past month with the Competition Bureau of Canada. They are trying to make a case against Toyota Canada and its regional provincial dealers for its price fixing policies.

They want to hear from anyone who has had poor dealings with Toyota in regards with TOYOTA ACCESS PRICING. This would include those who have purchased and those who are planning to buy a Toyota in the near future.
They really want to put an end this illegal affair.

The individual below would like to here from you.

Eugene Besruky
email: Besruky.Eugene@cb-bc.gc.ca
Criminal Matters Branch
Bureau de la concurrence - 50, rue Victoria Gatineau (Québec) K1A 0C9
Competition Bureau - 50 Victoria Street Gatineau Quebec K1A 0C9
Gouvernement du Canada - Government of Canada
(819) 953-8538
www.cb-bc.gc.ca

Please contact him so that we don't have to be ripped off by TOYOTA any further. If you are shy, you can contact me so I can better direct your questions.

Grimace · 03-09-2005, 10:39 AM

BC Guys,

Is this a good deal?

$48,500 CDN plus taxes for a demo V6 LTD. Its got 4000km on it and was registered in early November. what do you guys think?

dave

green91runner · 03-09-2005, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimace

$48,500 CDN plus taxes for a demo V6 LTD. Its got 4000km on it and was registered in early November. what do you guys think?

well, based off this prior post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboale

37k (down from 39) for a 05 4Runner ltd V6 with nav and sunroof

$37,000 USD = $44,500 CAD... a difference of $4,000. and I'm assuming the runner with the nav and the sunroof didn't have 4000 demo kilometres.

yabedude · 03-09-2005, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimace

Guys,

Oscar and I have been in conversation the past month with the Competition Bureau of Canada. They are trying to make a case against Toyota Canada and its regional provincial dealers for its price fixing policies.

They want to hear from anyone who has had poor dealings with Toyota in regards with TOYOTA ACCESS PRICING. This would include those who have purchased and those who are planning to buy a Toyota in the near future.
They really want to put an end this illegal affair.

The individual below would like to here from you.

Eugene Besruky
email: Besruky.Eugene@cb-bc.gc.ca
Criminal Matters Branch
Bureau de la concurrence - 50, rue Victoria Gatineau (Québec) K1A 0C9
Competition Bureau - 50 Victoria Street Gatineau Quebec K1A 0C9
Gouvernement du Canada - Government of Canada
(819) 953-8538
www.cb-bc.gc.ca

Please contact him so that we don't have to be ripped off by TOYOTA any further. If you are shy, you can contact me so I can better direct your questions.

Dave,

When you first posted this, I wrote to that fellow. I explained how I contacted many dealers in the lower mainland and could not get anyone to budge on the access pricing. He never replied. Thought you might want to know how much attention our concerns are really getting.
--
Chris

Grimace · 03-10-2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yabedude

Dave,

When you first posted this, I wrote to that fellow. I explained how I contacted many dealers in the lower mainland and could not get anyone to budge on the access pricing. He never replied. Thought you might want to know how much attention our concerns are really getting.
--
Chris

Really? It may be that its because you bought your runner already. Tango and I have been in contact with him quite regularly. He even phoned me a couple of times. He really wants to shut down and screw up the toyota pricing network. But his hands are tied as how to do it. Toyota acknowleges that it has abandoned its Access policy, but BC dealers have figured they can still milk it at their own discretion now.

I even recieved some hints as to how to find a better deal outside of BC. I'll be happy to pass them on if anyone needs it. He hopes if the word gets out, the dealership network will crumble.

Its funny though, after we posted this here and T4R, I got a call from Toyota Canada that dealers can sell at their own price. From my research the Lower Mainland dealers will never budge. I've been point blank by several dealers (Richmond automall)^$%^$ crooks ------that they will only sell at MSRP. The reason being all the FOBs will pay anything.

If you want to try make a deal, you may have to go into the interior. From this you can only get a measly $500 off. More $#&% BS. This being that these STEALERS are afraid their inventory will be cut off if the big boys in Van find out that they are selling below MSRP. Its pretty sad really for these guys too. These Stealers can't compete with the local domestic dealers for trucks. A logger is going to buy a POS Dodge/Chevy/FORD just because of the dealer incentives. Seriously who would take a semi loaded $60,000 Tundra into the bush, when you can get a fully loaded 1 tonne diesal from either of the big three. Toyota has really shot themsleves in the foot.

10-31-2004, 02:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
Masato Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada Posts: 24	It doesn't look like any dealers will move on the price since they'va pretty much all agreed to stick to the access pricing formula. Toyota has put a lot of resources into this program so I can't see it changing any time soon. As for it breaking any laws, I can't see how it would. Governments can't regulate pricing in the open markets. Its only in heavily regulated monopolies that they have any real powers. If that wasn't the case, then the capital market system would be in jeopardy. My old man just bought a 04 dub cab Tundra ltd. He couldn't stand the idea of paying MSRP but none of the 4 dealers he went to would move on the price. We went to the dealers ready to pay cash and walk out that day with a truck but no dealer would move on the access price (which is actually set a measly few bucks under MSRP) so he bit the bullet and paid the access price. __________________ 99 Tacoma 4x4

11-01-2004, 08:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
Oscar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 57	Here's a little snippet from an article I read in June: Toyota kills no-haggle sales price strategy Source: http://www.globemegawheels.com/servl...TOYOTA17/cars/ By GREG KEENAN AUTO INDUSTRY REPORTER Thursday, June 17, 2004 - Page B1 Toyota Canada Inc. is abandoning the no-haggle price strategy that was a key feature of its Access Toyota sales system, a radical overhaul of the way the company sells vehicles that is being closely watched by its rivals, but is also the subject of lawsuits in Quebec and British Columbia. __________________ Richard '96 4Runner SR5 V6 5Spd TRD 2nd Gen S/C, TRD Hdrs, Borla Cat-Back, Walbro 190lph Fuel Pump, 305cc Injectors, SS FTC-1, Waydo (TRD) Lift Coils, Bilstein Shocks, BFG All-Terrains 285/75/R16

11-01-2004, 08:36 AM	#4 (permalink)
Oscar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 57	I think there is some sorta of illegal act going on under the Access Toyota program. When I purchased my Matrix last year, I found out, from a Vancouver dealership, that their dealership would get punished if they didn't follow the pricing. On another note: After reading about the end of Access Toyota, I tried seeing what CarCostCanada had to say about Toyota dealer's invoice pricing and the Access Toyota program. This is what they said. "Comment by Armada Data Corp C/S team:Richard, even though Access Pricing is technically no longer in effect, Toyota dealers are in a transition period at this time. We are unfortunately not able to obtain a discount on Toyota vehicles at present. Please let us know if there is another make that you are interested in. Regards - Carcostcanada.com C/S Team 1" __________________ Richard '96 4Runner SR5 V6 5Spd TRD 2nd Gen S/C, TRD Hdrs, Borla Cat-Back, Walbro 190lph Fuel Pump, 305cc Injectors, SS FTC-1, Waydo (TRD) Lift Coils, Bilstein Shocks, BFG All-Terrains 285/75/R16

11-01-2004, 08:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
Babypig Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,091	Just stay out of Downtown Toyota on Burrard. That place is king of the rip offs in my experience. The dealership on Lougheed in Burnaby just past Boundary is way better in my experience. __________________ Ironpig2 is a 1990 4runner SR5 95 3.0V6, ARB front bumper, Hella H4 conversion, Hayden Trans cooler, Aisin manual hubs, Drilled headlight bezel, Clinometer, Altimiter, Assorted Camera mounts, JVC double din head unit, Hilux Surf emblems, Bridgestone Revo's, OME 901's , N72f's "Stay calm, Be brave, Wait for the signs." Last edited by Babypig; 11-01-2004 at 08:58 AM.

11-01-2004, 09:44 AM	#6 (permalink)
Praufet Contributing Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort Worth/College Station, TX Posts: 835	I don't know about the laws in canada, but here in american, the Sherman Antitrust acts makes price fixing per se illegal. __________________ --Brian '94 4Runner SR5 4WD 285 Terra Grapplers on FJ80 wheels\|Rancho 9000s on all 4 corners\|Cruiser coils\|Marlin Rear brake line Stereo CDT Audio CL-61A\|CDT Audio CL-6X\|Profile 640 and Profile 600M\|Audiobahn 100Q

11-01-2004, 11:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
Grimace Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 283	OK, here's my story. I just got off the phone with Toyota Canada. I spoke to guy named Justin in customer service. I told him about the articles in the Globe & Mail and the Vancouver Sun. He put me on hold to speak to someone more knowledgeable about the issue. Ten minutes later, he then told me that Toyota's response to the articles was they changed their one price policy (called the drive away rpice) to MSRP. Toyota now lists MSRP to better compare their vehicles to their competitors So I asked him what the difference was between MSRP and the Access price and who in their right mind would pay MSRP. As well, I told him about the dealers stating they would be penalized if they would sold below MSRP. All I got was silence. He was so dumbfounded!!!!!!!!!! He again went to his supervisor. 5 minutes later, I told him what they doing maybe illegal and that the BBB should investigate the issue. I like to create trouble sometimes. So now Toyota of Canada's review team is going to call me to discuss the issue. Whats a review team? I really don't know what I have gotten myself into. It should be fun though. Any ideas? What should I say? As well, its interesting to note they didn't take me seriously until they did a search of all the vehicles my family has purchased from toyota in the past 10 years before the new pricing system. He wanted to know if I was serious or not. __________________ Dave T. AKA:GRIMACE 06 V6 Ltd 4th Gen Stock for now. Wife won't let me mod cuz we just bought a house. 97 Stellar Blue Pearl (Purple)4RUNNER Sold to MR. BOB PICS of GRIMACE

11-01-2004, 11:37 AM	#9 (permalink)
TM93_SR5 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 56	Sounds like their "review team" is going to put you into the proverbial run around. Those guys will probably call you and tell you to call up the customer service, or keep sending you to different departments. You might be able to get a corporate override on the pricing - but I don't see that as likely. Have you tried contacting any dealerships near the US? You might be able to get the car shipped to you for $500 or so - which could be worth it if the price is a few thousand less. Just a thought (or look for some ads from the US and try to get them to price match it in canada - and if they won't - claim discrimination)

11-01-2004, 11:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
Oscar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 57	I didn't call Toyota Canada, but I have filed a complaint to the Competition Bureau of Canada, asking them to explain how Toyota Canada is not in violation of the Competition Act. If we could get enough public support out of this, then maybe something can be done to change this. __________________ Richard '96 4Runner SR5 V6 5Spd TRD 2nd Gen S/C, TRD Hdrs, Borla Cat-Back, Walbro 190lph Fuel Pump, 305cc Injectors, SS FTC-1, Waydo (TRD) Lift Coils, Bilstein Shocks, BFG All-Terrains 285/75/R16

11-01-2004, 11:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
Masato Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada Posts: 24	Hmmm... I wonder if I smell a class action suit brewing somewhere.... __________________ 99 Tacoma 4x4

11-02-2004, 08:48 AM	#14 (permalink)
Grimace Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 283	Here's the report from the Globe and Mail. Maybe we should buy our trucks in Ontario? Toyota kills no-haggle sales price strategy By GREG KEENAN Thursday, June 17, 2004 Page - B1 (860 words) AUTO INDUSTRY REPORTER Print this Article Toyota Canada Inc. is abandoning the no-haggle price strategy that was a key feature of its Access Toyota sales system, a radical overhaul of the way the company sells vehicles that is being closely watched by its rivals, but is also the subject of lawsuits in Quebec and British Columbia. The move to eliminate one-price selling for new cars, trucks, minivans and sport utility vehicles comes about one month before Access Toyota is scheduled to be introduced in Ontario. The country's biggest new vehicle market is scheduled to be the last region of the country to adopt the program, which one industry source described as a "revolutionary" change in the traditional method of buying a new vehicle. In addition to one-price selling, the program involves training sales people to make them more customer-friendly, changing the sales process to reduce the time spent in a dealership and use of the Internet, to buy instead of entering an outlet. The program has been in place since 2000, when it was started in Manitoba before a national rollout to the company's 230 dealers. "Obviously this is the end of the program as the pricing was the key segment," said one dealer. Dealers said they were notified of the change in a memorandum from Toyota Canada president Kenji Tomikawa last Friday. Company officials would not talk about the decision yesterday or reasons for the move. "We don't have anything to discuss at this time," said spokesman David Stone. Announcements to dealers are "privileged communications which we don't normally talk about." One dealer suggested that the Canadian sales arm of Toyota Motor Corp. was told to change the program because dealers have become considerably less aggressive in the market, and reduced advertising, for example. A Quebec lawsuit challenging the pricing practices has not yet been certified as a class-action suit but is proceeding, said Daniel Belleau, a Montreal lawyer who is handling the case. Court documents filed in the B.C. lawsuit said dealers set prices unlawfully, refused to offer discounts from the Access price and would not offer free options or extra features. The allegations have not been proven in court and the suit has also not yet been certified as a class-action, lawyer Leslie Mackoff said yesterday. Access Toyota was a key part of the company's Vision 2010 program, a successful attempt to grab 10 per cent of the Canadian market by 2000. Toyota Canada now has about 12 per cent of the Canadian vehicle market. But it was also controversial with the federal government. An investigation by the Competition Bureau examined allegations that the monthly setting of prices by dealers in a particular region amounted to price-fixing. As part of a settlement of that probe last year, Toyota Canada agreed to make it clear to dealers and sales people that they could sell vehicles for less than the Access Toyota price. In addition, the auto maker agreed to donate $2.3-million to charities as part of the settlement. The Access program involved more than just one-price selling, although one dealer described that feature as the backbone of the program. The changes to the traditional cat-and-mouse negotiations that many buyers despise included: guarantees on interest rates for 30 days so customers purchasing near the end of one month were still eligible for low-interest finance rates even if the programs had expired by the time they picked up their vehicles; standard charges across the country for the predelivery inspection that dealers perform before customers drive away; full disclosure of all charges. The move to end one-price selling is "a huge victory for the consumer," said Paul Timoteo, president of CarCost Canada, a consumer advocacy firm for car buyers that charges a fee for members and helps them get discounts on vehicles. A CarCost comparison of prices in British Columbia and Ontario, done last month, found transaction prices for Toyota vehicles were in some cases just a few dollars less than the Manufacturers' Suggested Retail Price, compared with prices substantially lower in Ontario. The biggest discount in British Columbia was on the 2004 Sequoia, an SUV that carries an MSRP of $63,620. The Sequoia was fetching $63,171 at B.C. dealers, while CarCost members could pay $57,881 in Ontario, a $5,290 difference. In Manitoba, dealers were asking $63,234, according to the Access Toyota website. On the 2005 compact Corolla sport model, CarCost members in Ontario could pay $18,528, compared with the set price of $19,954 in British Columbia. The Automobile Protection Association reached a similar conclusion by examining prices in Montreal, said George Iny, president of that consumer group. Mr. Iny praised the other elements of the program, such as increased training for sales people and full disclosure of all charges. "Hopefully they'll be able to keep those," Mr. Iny said. Dealers in regions where the program has been in place for some time disputed the notion that consumers weren't getting a fair deal. "The whole process is seamless and so much better for the consumer," said one. __________________ Dave T. AKA:GRIMACE 06 V6 Ltd 4th Gen Stock for now. Wife won't let me mod cuz we just bought a house. 97 Stellar Blue Pearl (Purple)4RUNNER Sold to MR. BOB PICS of GRIMACE

11-02-2004, 09:26 AM	#15 (permalink)
turboale Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 4,836	Wow, Its amazing what you can do now a-days... What are your prices up there? A friend of mine just paid 37k (down from 39) for a 05 4Runner ltd V6 with nav and sunroof. Savannah Toyota claims they are the #1 dealer in the southeast and they have a 110% price match so if you find a quote lower than theirs they will beat it by 10%. Good luck on your purchase! __________________ --Austin RHaus NYC 06 M45 Sport - Beauty 96 4Runner - The Beast

11-02-2004, 01:58 PM	#16 (permalink)
Grimace Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 283	I guess I'm journalizing everything now. Maral from Toyota Canada's Review team just called me. She took down all of my information and displeasures as I have meantioned before. I told her about the pricing fixing. From my understanding she said the dealerships are allowed to sell below the MSRP, but its up to them. Its not her exact words as she was very reluctant to answer my questions. She went into a speal how great the Access Pricing was. I asked her if I could go into a dealership and negociate a deal below MSRP. She said she could not "advise" me. I asked her if I was going to hear anything from her in the future. The answer was NO, however Toyota will look into the situation. So I got nowhere. I wished I got to ask if Toyota Canada enforces the dealers to sell At MSRP. Any one else wanna call them and complain? __________________ Dave T. AKA:GRIMACE 06 V6 Ltd 4th Gen Stock for now. Wife won't let me mod cuz we just bought a house. 97 Stellar Blue Pearl (Purple)4RUNNER Sold to MR. BOB PICS of GRIMACE

11-04-2004, 06:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
Oscar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 57	BTW, I was contacted by a person at Canada's Competition Bureau. He says that the only way that Toyota Canada would be in violation of the Competition Act is in Section 61. Section 61 states that the supplier, whether this be Toyota Canada or some other entity, cannot punish a distributor (dealership) for selling a product below a suggested price. Prior to the Access Toyota abandonment, I was told, by a salesman, that dealer's would get punished for selling below Access price. Today I do not know if this would still be the case. The Competition Bureau would like to know if anybody has any evidence of this type that says it's still happening. Whether the evidence be a salesman telling you he can't give a deal because he'd catch crap or something else. If you or anybody knows anything about this, please don't be scared to contact the Competition Bureau of Canada. They say everything you tell them will be kept in confidence. http://competition.ic.gc.ca/epic/int.../ct02143e.html Just a few more tidbits about the end to Access Toyota. I really hate how the BC and Alta dealers can get away with selling at full MSRP. http://www.carcostcanada.com/en/rese...no=894&catid=6 http://www.carcostcanada.com/en/rese...no=895&catid=6 __________________ Richard '96 4Runner SR5 V6 5Spd TRD 2nd Gen S/C, TRD Hdrs, Borla Cat-Back, Walbro 190lph Fuel Pump, 305cc Injectors, SS FTC-1, Waydo (TRD) Lift Coils, Bilstein Shocks, BFG All-Terrains 285/75/R16

11-06-2004, 02:04 PM	#18 (permalink)
JGage Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NW Florida Posts: 585	In the US, if Toyota tells their dealers: "You must sell a Toyota for 'this" price and no less," that is legal. If every dealer in the reigon gets together and decides they are all going to sell Toyota's at a certain price, that is illegal... It's price fixing. __________________ 2003 Galactic Gray Limited 4WD V8 w/ X-reas. Passenger and Driver window tint mod. <G> Royal Purple ! Amsoil in the Diffs and TC. "…..there’s always a way of balancing things. Someday it’ll come. Don’t hunt for it, don’t pledge revenge – revenge is for children. It’s a lot more satisfying to f#ck with their mind. Just keep your eyes open and wait for the chance. The take it for everything its worth. "

12-07-2004, 09:58 AM	#19 (permalink)
Grimace Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 283	Guys, Oscar and I have been in conversation the past month with the Competition Bureau of Canada. They are trying to make a case against Toyota Canada and its regional provincial dealers for its price fixing policies. They want to hear from anyone who has had poor dealings with Toyota in regards with TOYOTA ACCESS PRICING. This would include those who have purchased and those who are planning to buy a Toyota in the near future. They really want to put an end this illegal affair. The individual below would like to here from you. Eugene Besruky email: Besruky.Eugene@cb-bc.gc.ca Criminal Matters Branch Bureau de la concurrence - 50, rue Victoria Gatineau (Québec) K1A 0C9 Competition Bureau - 50 Victoria Street Gatineau Quebec K1A 0C9 Gouvernement du Canada - Government of Canada (819) 953-8538 www.cb-bc.gc.ca Please contact him so that we don't have to be ripped off by TOYOTA any further. If you are shy, you can contact me so I can better direct your questions. __________________ Dave T. AKA:GRIMACE 06 V6 Ltd 4th Gen Stock for now. Wife won't let me mod cuz we just bought a house. 97 Stellar Blue Pearl (Purple)4RUNNER Sold to MR. BOB PICS of GRIMACE Last edited by Grimace; 12-07-2004 at 10:43 AM.

03-09-2005, 10:39 AM	#20 (permalink)
Grimace Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 283	BC Guys, Is this a good deal? $48,500 CDN plus taxes for a demo V6 LTD. Its got 4000km on it and was registered in early November. what do you guys think? dave __________________ Dave T. AKA:GRIMACE 06 V6 Ltd 4th Gen Stock for now. Wife won't let me mod cuz we just bought a house. 97 Stellar Blue Pearl (Purple)4RUNNER Sold to MR. BOB PICS of GRIMACE

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Anyone Have Access to TIS (Toyota Information System)	Steveh29	General Vehicle Related Topics (Non Year Related)	6	10-03-2009 02:51 AM
Toyota Announces Pricing For Toyota Racing Development Special Edition FJ Cruiser Pac	BT17R	FJ Cruiser	18	10-27-2006 12:48 PM
1980 Toyota Pickup - access cab? sleeper cab? custom...	Cebby	The Classifieds GraveYard	7	09-23-2006 03:05 PM
2003 Toyota Tundra Access Cab Limited	russellcframe	The Classifieds GraveYard	1	04-19-2006 11:22 AM
Toyota announces 2005 Scion tC pricing	BT17R	Off Topic Talk	23	04-14-2004 08:25 PM