Stump1883

For all you guys running the T17 or T15 let me know your experiances with winching and being winched with these bars. I have heard that they are less stout than the ARB and that under load they may bend or twist. I would like to know some first hand experiances with the TJM's under loads? I know alto of people here run the TJM bars, so lets hear it.

Thanks in advance.

sschaefer3

I pulled Mike Brown and Jim Huges up Widow Maker in Moab. The rumors are BS. The bumpers are the same.

Same lame 1/8". If you want something better, build it custom. All the stamped out stuff is the same and it's fine as well.

I pulled them up this. They added nothing.



As well as a Jeep CJ.

r854rnr

Isn't the only structural difference the TJM is a 3 piece bumper, while the ARB is 1 piece? Thus the ability to winch at 90 degrees with the ARB?

mt_goat

The TJM is mainly a 2 piece design, the bumper and the mount are bolted together. There are 3 parts to the bumper if you count the little bolt-on wings on the sides, so if you count those its really a 4 piece design. But the wings have nothing to do with the winching ability.

There is a greater chance of failure with the TJM, but that is IMHO mainly because of the bolt connection between the bumper and the mount. Part of that weakness could be because of the cheap grade 5 bolts that TJM supplies with the bumper and part could be due to the installer not getting the bolts tight enough. If you replace the TJM bolts with some stronger grade 8 bolts and make sure to get a maximum torque on the them, there is much less chance of failure. If you are worried about the strength of the TJM it is very easy to cut the winching load in half by using a snatch block back to the factory tow hook. That way the tow hook takes half of the load and the bumper/winch takes the other half. Your winch will also thank you for using a snatch block.

turboale

That doesn't make any sence... (r854rnr) You beat me goat!

There are aren't any extra mounting points out on the wings of the ARB are there? The modular "wings" on the TJM are behind the front, so the entire front part is one piece, only aft of that is where the wing is added. I don't see how it would be different?

Another plus with the TJM is adjustablity. You will get .5-1" of adjustment up and down depending on your rig, so if you get a 1" body lift your in the clear. The only thing is the higher you go, the weaker it is. But, as I said in another thread... I'm going to be working on some custom hangers for the TJM that will be stronger and allow for a 2"body lift.

Ric

hey, whats a "snatch block" ? do you happen to have a pic of it/one ? thankx.

goldtaco9

You can also adjust the TJM winglets to better match your flares.
Mike

WolfpackTLC

I'm not sure about Steve's experiences, but I do know a very serious wheeler (i.e. he wheel's w/ me and other's at places like Dayton, TN, Tellico, etc... ) and I've seen him use his TJM A LOT. He's only running a M8000, and @ extreme line pulls, i.e. over 70 degree pulls, and up to 90 degree pulls, I've seen him tweak the bumper...

And that range of adjustability that Austin mentioned is nice, but it is also another weak area in my opinion. I've seen TJM's on the trail get tweaked both up and down while winching heavy loads...

My ARB on my heavy ass 80-series hasn't budged when I've single, double, and triple line pulled on vehicles ranging from a Mog to a Dodge Ram, buried to the axles in red clay, on 42" Swampers... And I'm using a M15000....

I'd NEVER try that w/ a TJM, from what I've seen...

Not bashing a TJM in any way, shape, or form... I actually like the way they look better....

The side wings on an ARB are stronger IMHO b/c it's one piece, and it's triangulated to a degree, so it's stronger. I'm no structural engineer, so this is just my theory!

mt_goat

Here is a pic: http://store.yahoo.com/coolfj40/snatchblock.html

And here is how to use one: http://www.geocities.com/flourpower....d_winching.htm

Ric

thankx for the links,

sschaefer3

The TJM mounts vary. Some vehicles like the T100 they suck. I think the 96-98 4Runner brackets are far better than the 99-02 and that's what I use, I modified my frame rails.

Not to miss anyhthing here but the ARB Tacoma bumper has big issues as well.

Hence Rob (Watrd) and Brian (wabbit) building those stud inserts.

The bottom line is that they are both MASS PRODUCED and only as strong as the frame attached. They are the fricken same lame 1/8" metal.

BruceTS

Simply put both bumpers are made very similar and the mounting piont will dictate just how strong it will be. The TJM-15 has a much better mounts than the TJM-17, but both lack the bracing for a decent side pull, even the ARB's that I've seen aren't the greatest either. I welded in some extra bracing and have never experienced any problems with my bumper, while winching. The true weak link is the actual 4Runner frame and the flexing I've experienced came directly from it. I've pulled straight all the way to 90 degrees and everything is still in alignment.

As for the side wing issue, that is purely a cosmetic feature and has nothing to do with adding strength.

mt_goat

I was under the impression that they were the same mount. What's the difference? Here is a pic of my T-17 mount: http://community.webshots.com/photo/...57765684BgLUnQ

sschaefer3

They are the same mount. The 96-98 15 & 17's have ojne style and the 99-02 15's and 17's have a different style.

Ranski

Bruce-

Do you have pics of the bracing welded in?

snoozer

What is the difference? Is it possible to mount a 99+ TJM on a 98?

payyourtoll

Amir904

when i was installing the TJM-15, I was unsure of how to mount it. when putting the bumper on the frame mounts for the 8 bolts, do the bumper mounts go in between the frame mounts or outside? or does it even matter....

mt_goat

On mine it is between, in fact that is the only way it will go on. Here is a pic of my "frame mount" as you call it, I call it just the mount. http://community.webshots.com/photo/...57765684BgLUnQ

Notice the gussets on the sides, they would be in the way if you tried to put the bumper on the outside. Plus the bumper is not as wide as the mount so it will only fit on the inside.

theferg

Specifically for Steve (or anyone else who's used the TJM 96-98 bumper mounts on a 99-02)...

When you cut off the original 99-02 bumper/crush-zone mount at the end of the frame rails, did you cut any amount of the frame off as well?--or pretty much right at the welds and just flattened the edges where the welds were?



Did all four of the mount holes in the 96-98 TJM mount just line right up, or did you have to re-configure them a bit?



Reason I'm asking is I've purchased a NIB TJM T15 from a guy on craigslist and turns out its not the 99-02 style mounts--and I've got an '02... I originally thought (and read) that you could just lop off the stock mounts on the ends of the frame rails and it would just bolt right up, but after measuring the distances from the end of the frame rail to the lower bolt holes, they seem to be off about 1/4 from the end of the frame rail; and the upper two bolt holes seem to be further apart center-to-center at the frame/body mount than at the bumper mount. All of which I think can be remedied with a bit of fab, just want to be sure I am starting with a mount that is not going to be twice as much work as another one would be. As in, maybe I have a Tacoma bumper mount that is slightly different?

Anyone have part numbers for any of the mounts (or care to have a look at theirs real quick...)--specifically if you have the 96-98 style mounts.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

-Ferg-