tombat

Yes unplugged the coil pack to remove the throttle body and plugged it back in. Gone over this a few times too. I think I've double checked everything.

I do appreciate the suggestions though. Sometimes it's easy to overlook the obvious - or not so obvious.

tombat

Somehow I missed this post. Can you elaborate a little on how to check the circuit integrity between the sensor and the ECM? Reading the manual, it states to check for an open or short in the circuit. I guess I'm not positive how to do that.

If I can find an EWD I could trace the sensor wiring back to the ECU and determine which connector and wire on the ECU matches up with the sensor wire. I could then check the resistance of the wire and verify the circuit is working.

Would this be the correct procedure or is there some other way I could check the integrity.

Thanks for any help.

Tom

TheDurk

That's exactly what I was suggesting. I have the info on terminals for a '99 4Runner but I doubt the wire positions are the same on your Taco. The Cam Pos Sensor connects to NE+ and G2 at the ECM connector behind the glove box. That should be the same. I just can't tell you where in your plug those wires are. I can also tell you that NE+ is a blue wire on an '02 4Runner and G2 is red. Again, no idea if that applies to your rig. Can you see the colors at the sensor?

I did find the pin-outs for the '00 Taco. The non-Cali G2 and NE+ might be the same as yours.

http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/Repa...ine/terecm.pdf

But if your sensor is good and you are getting P0340, there must be a problem in that relatively short 2-wire circuit. It's probably at the engine-side sensor connector or between there and the firewall.

tombat

OK Durk, I'm finally on the same page as you. It just took me a while to get there.

I checked the wires to the ECU and they check out good. I never did get the exact EWD but I found one for the 5VZ-FE on ncttora and the wire colors were the same. So the cam sensor has a a blue and a yellow wire and the crank sensor has a green and a red wire. The diagram I found show the blue and green wire connecting before the ECU.

On my truck, there were separate pins for the blue and green plus they were spliced before they got to the ECU. So I showed connection for the blue wire on both the green wire and the blue wire. But they are supposed to be connected according to the diagram so I assume all is good. Make sense?

If I continue to follow along, the FSM says the next step is to replace the cam pulley. I'm pretty sure the sensor is in correctly. I'm having a little trouble believing the pulley is the problem. There is a notch on the pulley for the sensor to pick up and it's just a magnetic sensor so how could the pulley be bad? The notch shouldn't have moved. How would it move? The FSM does mention an airgap. Has the airgap gotten too big?

One thing I am thinking is maybe the pin on the cam sheared when I broke the pulley bolt loose. I find this hard to believe but it's all I can think. I do remember the pulley didn't slide on easily the first try. I had to pull it off and try a second time.

Anyway, according to the procedure the pulley needs to come off for inspection and possible replacement. It's really no big deal at this point. I think I could do it blindfolded.

Any advice - from anyone?

Thanks
Tom

TheDurk

OK, I am pretty much out of advice. I would check to see if the resistance at the ECM plug between the pins for blue and yellow measured close to the cam position sensor resistance when measured alone. This additional step would verify the circuit integrity all the way from the ECM plug through the wires to the sensor connector to the sensor itself. The sensor connector plug is the most likely circuit fail point after the sensor itself and I am not sure you have fully tested that. In fact, moving the sensor connector around while reading the resistance would be useful, as suggested by the FSM. I still think the wiring might be the source of an intermittent fail causing the P0340; I agree a pulley defect seems unlikely.

If that still checks out, then I would be as lost as you are. I have never had my cam pulleys off (seals were tight when I did TB so I left them) so I know less than you do about that.

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

Did you install the cam pulley the right way? Facing the right way? Dont know if they are different left an right. But on the 3.0 one pulley faces one way and the other the other way.

ToyotaDon

First of all, the knock pin for the camshaft pulleys is hard to damage, but I'm sure it could be done.

The next thing to check is that you didn't switch the pulleys from left to right when you reinstalled them. The FSM shows that they are marked near the alignment mark. Remember, LH & RH are as if you are sitting in the driver's seat, not looking at the front of the engine. The RH pulley is supposed to have two flanges, with a protrusion that creates the signal when passing by the sensor. The LH pulley only has one flange, which is supposed to face the front/outside of the engine.

HTH

P.S. I followed you here from MUD.

tombat

Thanks for the input. I actually work with crimp tools, wires, terminations, connectors and stuff on a daily basis. There is really no reason for me to suspect the integrity of the connector. It's an environmental connector that is in great shape. The whole truck is in great shape - no signs of rust or corrosion anywhere. But I guess it can't hurt to check.



Pulleys are on correctly. They are marked with an L and an R and I can't count how many times I've checked that as I've stood staring at the motor. The right side has the little tab that is the pickup for the sensor. I've inspected the tab and it looks fine.

I'm still wondering about replacing the pulley. I think I have to at least remove it and inspect it. It's really just a sprocket with 5 legs. I'm now wondering if the legs could have twisted slightly due to the force of breaking the bolt loose. All I can think of right now.

Still looking for any input or suggestions.

Thanks
Tom

ToyotaDon

I just had a couple guys here at the shop look at this and one of them experienced the same issue before.

You need to take a look at the teeth on the crankshaft timing gear. When you pried it off to replace the front crank seal, you likely bent or broke one of the teeth on the pickup ring for the crankshaft position sensor. I know it doesn't make sense that it would set the DTC for the camshaft, but it has to do with what the ECM gives priority to. It believes the signal from the CKP is correct, so when the CMP doesn't correlate, it blames the CMP signal.

tombat

Don

Thanks for getting some of the other guys in your shop involved – I do appreciate the help.

Now – let me just clarify a little. When I said “pry” the gear off, I mean “pry” in the loosest sense of the word. The gear had about a ¼ inch of movement and looked like it was getting hung up on the woodruff key. I took a hammer and gently tapped (as opposed to pounded) the key into the crank. Then I grabbed a screwdriver and gently nudged (as opposed to pry) the gear from behind as I pulled hard. The gear actually came off easily – just like the skin on the end of my thumb when it passed the woodruff key.

That said there is always the possibility I damaged the gear as I ran into the house to grab a band-aid for my bleeding thumb. Or maybe I got blood on the gear and the sensor can’t read it correctly.

It does seem the problem is either the crank gear of the cam pulley. Looks like I can get both parts for less than $150 so unless I can find obvious damage to one of the them, I’ll most likely buy both. I really don’t want to have to do this a fifth time. I think four should be enough.

I’m still waiting for someone to chime in and tell me all I have to do is knock three times on the pulley and everything will work just fine. But I’m not hopeful that is going to happen.

I’ll probably pull the parts tonight, inspect them and make a decision on what to do next.

Thanks
Tom

rworegon

Tom, can you post any pictures? It may help someone to spot something.

tombat

I'll do my best. My wife is in Japan with the good camera so all I have is a crappy cell phone camera. Plus I left my camera cable at work so I don't have an interface to the computer. I'll take some picture, upload them in the morning and then post what I got.

tombat

Problem solved. ToyotaDon and his co-workers nailed it. Crankshaft gear is missing a tooth. I decided to turn the crank and get pictures all the way around so I could show none of the teeth were damaged. Found it on the second picture.

I'm pretty happy right now. Nothing like confirmation of a problem. One more tear down and re-assembly and all should be good.

Thanks everyone - I'll keep you posted. Gotta try to locate a gear now. Hopefully there is one available locally.

TheDurk

Glad you found it. And thanks to ToyotaDon et al. for teaching me something new.

tombat

Picture of the missing tooth.

dntsdad

Nice find ToyotaDon.

This guy may have your part.

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177840

ToyotaDon

You're all welcome! Actually, the thanks needs to go to Joe, shop foreman here at Hanford Toyota.

BTW, I feel your pain on the cut finger, did that on the last 3.4 timing belt. It even happens to the pros.

rworegon

A picture tells a thousand words.....glad you found it. Those teeth are pretty delicate, it seems.

A new one will run you about $55-60 from the dealer or a bit cheaper here from Titus-Will in Tacoma (although shipping may eat up the difference). These guys are great to deal with:

https://www.1sttoyotaparts.com/catalogs.html

tombat

I've already got the part ordered at Toyota of Seattle. They sell at list price unlike most of the dealers around here. I know I could get it a little cheaper from other sources but this way I don't have to worry about shipping and hoping it doesn't get lost along the way.

I actually bought my truck from Titus Will and have used 1sttoyotaparts a few times. It was much more convenient for me when they operated out of Bob Bridge Toyota in Renton. At the time it was walking distance from where I work.

I think I'll tear it down the rest of the way after work tomorrow and hopefully put it back together Friday.

Oh - and just for the record, the broken tooth is on the opposite side of the pulley from where I was prying.

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

Glad to see you've got it resolved. I use Rob over at Toyota of kirkland and he always gets me a good deal.