Spot rust above winshield...options?
06-06-2009, 08:27 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Spot rust above windshield...options?
So as always, 99 Tacoma 2.7 Xtra cab (I can't figure out how to just put that in my profile so it shows when I post).
When I bought the truck 4 years ago, there was spot rust above the seal of the windshield. They are not very big spots, I would say the biggest was smaller than the head of a screw. Also, they are sparse/scattered. There are none that appear to creep down underneath the seal, but I guess that is hard to tell without pulling the windshield. In the 4 years of ownership, these spots do not seem to be getting any worse. (Truck started in Utah, now in Montana).
I talked to my buddy who does body/paint work on hot rods and on any vehicle for that matter, but he said he encountered a similar problem on another Tacoma (heard this is common) and to completely eliminate that problem, they had to redo the whole cab, since it is all one piece. He told me that there is no sure way of completely eliminating the rust from coming back unless you get to the roots, use a sealer, and then go from there. He said the companies that will re-do that strip, well, the rust will tend to come back after a few years.
So my question is, since my budget doesn't allow a couple thousand dollar paint job, has anyone had any luck with just taking it to a paint/body shop that will do it for a couple hundred bucks (since it's only about a 4 inch wide strip running to either side of the truck)? I'm sure I won't own the truck forever but it doesn't seem worth it if it will come back in a few years. Any advice or experience on this issue?
When I bought the truck 4 years ago, there was spot rust above the seal of the windshield. They are not very big spots, I would say the biggest was smaller than the head of a screw. Also, they are sparse/scattered. There are none that appear to creep down underneath the seal, but I guess that is hard to tell without pulling the windshield. In the 4 years of ownership, these spots do not seem to be getting any worse. (Truck started in Utah, now in Montana).
I talked to my buddy who does body/paint work on hot rods and on any vehicle for that matter, but he said he encountered a similar problem on another Tacoma (heard this is common) and to completely eliminate that problem, they had to redo the whole cab, since it is all one piece. He told me that there is no sure way of completely eliminating the rust from coming back unless you get to the roots, use a sealer, and then go from there. He said the companies that will re-do that strip, well, the rust will tend to come back after a few years.
So my question is, since my budget doesn't allow a couple thousand dollar paint job, has anyone had any luck with just taking it to a paint/body shop that will do it for a couple hundred bucks (since it's only about a 4 inch wide strip running to either side of the truck)? I'm sure I won't own the truck forever but it doesn't seem worth it if it will come back in a few years. Any advice or experience on this issue?
Last edited by KrashDH; 06-06-2009 at 08:28 AM. Reason: spellin
06-06-2009, 12:35 PM
#2
Registered User
Thread Starter
So here is an update with some photos of this to help clarify. Not sure a clay bar works on this...seems like there are actual chips
Last edited by KrashDH; 06-06-2009 at 01:01 PM.
06-06-2009, 04:14 PM
#3
i would try an aggressive clay or rubbing compound to see what's rust and what's just road debris first. once you know what's a rust spot, before you drop loads of money getting a repaint that probably will not eliminate the problem, try grinding the area (if it's just small spots) with a Dremel to get it down to bare metal. I've successfully done little spot jobs on my 4runner by grinding with the Dremel and treating it with a rust treatment bought at a local auto parts store (now switched to POR 15) and then touched it up to match the rest of the paint on the vehicle. I think POR 15 may even have white for a color so that would make your touch up job easier. worst case scenario is the rust will find a way through and you'll be back to square one with a possible paint job, but that might not be for a year or two or even more. or, you could grind down all the rust and Herculine your truck! 
just some options.
if you're on a budget, $400 probably won't buy you a good paint job or people that will take the time to eliminate the rust the "right" way, unless you have a nice friend in the biz willing to help you out. the run of the mill "touch up" guys that do that stuff for dealerships will just squirt some touch up paint over the rust and in a month it'll look like it did before, with less money in your pocket.
just my $.02, try the Dremel and some rust treatment/paint and see how that works out before you shell out a lot of your money.
just some options. if you're on a budget, $400 probably won't buy you a good paint job or people that will take the time to eliminate the rust the "right" way, unless you have a nice friend in the biz willing to help you out. the run of the mill "touch up" guys that do that stuff for dealerships will just squirt some touch up paint over the rust and in a month it'll look like it did before, with less money in your pocket.
just my $.02, try the Dremel and some rust treatment/paint and see how that works out before you shell out a lot of your money.
06-06-2009, 04:27 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Well if I do it myself I do want to do it correct. So I would want to do a rust treatment like rustoleum? for a base and then would I top that with a white to match my truck and then would I want to clear coat it? If I do it I want to try to take the preventative approach so it won't come back for a while.
If I took it to someone I woudn't do the WHOLE truck. This is the only spot that has the rust.
When it comes to body work I know nothing about paints/etc so any help on products would be great. i have done some reading about POR 15 for underbody, and it says that is a 3 step treatment with ALL their products. Is this the same for paint too? I have toyota's touch up paint in the small bottle but this never seems to go on smooth; which you are able to see between the factory coat and my touch ups (of course). I want to try to blend as best as possible... from my experience if you use a rattle can from a distance you can put a nice finish on metal (I've done a recumbent bike this way, turned out good, but still the clear coat wasn't as hard as I would have liked). I'm assuming I could get away with this just because these spots are so small, if I tape everything up good?
So any help on products, # of coats, and applicators for these small spots would be great. Especially a good hardening clear coat. I get nervous grinding on my body but I think I can get away doing this in the garage being a novice? I have access to Dremel attachments
If I took it to someone I woudn't do the WHOLE truck. This is the only spot that has the rust.
When it comes to body work I know nothing about paints/etc so any help on products would be great. i have done some reading about POR 15 for underbody, and it says that is a 3 step treatment with ALL their products. Is this the same for paint too? I have toyota's touch up paint in the small bottle but this never seems to go on smooth; which you are able to see between the factory coat and my touch ups (of course). I want to try to blend as best as possible... from my experience if you use a rattle can from a distance you can put a nice finish on metal (I've done a recumbent bike this way, turned out good, but still the clear coat wasn't as hard as I would have liked). I'm assuming I could get away with this just because these spots are so small, if I tape everything up good?
So any help on products, # of coats, and applicators for these small spots would be great. Especially a good hardening clear coat. I get nervous grinding on my body but I think I can get away doing this in the garage being a novice? I have access to Dremel attachments
Last edited by KrashDH; 06-06-2009 at 04:31 PM.
06-06-2009, 08:19 PM
#5
POR 15 is a 3 step system. you try to clean off as much loose rust as possible, then they have a cleaner/degreaser (step 1), then a zinc liquid that is like a rust converter (step 2), then the actual POR 15 paint to seal it (step 3).
i've done some body work and i also worked for a paint touch up and spot repair place for a year. now, most of the time we did the quick not so good job and collected our money but that's what the dealerships wanted. once in awhile (or on my own vehicle) we would take our time and try to do things right if time allowed.
you can spray new paint on the vehicle and then used a blending solvent to melt the new and old finishes together for a better (not perfect) look. after working at my job and doing hundreds of cars, i was able to do a pretty decent job after 6 months. this required grinding/sanding old finish or rusted area, cleaning thoroughly, masking off lots of the car, priming, block sanding, cleaning, painting with an HVLP paint gun, clear coating, blending, let cure, wet sand, buff and polish. it was very painstaking but yielded pretty darn good results. but also required lots of equipment, professional ($$$) paints and clear, and 6 months of practice to get the right techniques.
if you're going with the grind and touch up: i think there are several products at the auto parts stores that are for "rust treatment" like Naval Jelly etc that you put on the area after you get as much of the rust off. you might even try spraying some rustoleum out of the can and using a fine (like artist style) paint brush to dab some of that in the area for a base or rust inhibiting primer. not too much though. there are lots of different ways to touch up a vehicle though. we used syringes for rock chips and minor scratches; there's the match method where you get a book of matches, rip one out and cut the end with a razor at a 45* angle and use that as a small point to dab the touch up paint into the area; also they have the touch up bottles with the ball point pen style applicator. you could tape off around the area and spray if you like too, that's a little more involved though. they also sell clear coat touch up too.
you could grind the rust, treat it, apply the color in your desired method and then build the clear coat so it sits above the factory paint, then after it's cured for awhile (maybe a week or a few days) go back with some 1500-2000 grit sand paper on a small sanding block (a hard pencil eraser, etc) you can sand it flush with the existing factory finish, then buff back to a gloss with some 3M compound/polish or something else. i've done this method on my own vehicle and it turns out pretty good.
some one egged my 4runner one night and it took out about 10 little chips of paint down to metal on my quarter panel. i did exactly what i just described and unless you know exactly where to look and you're about an inch away from the surface you can not see it. there may be a slight defection in the sunlight at certain angles from taking a little of the factory clear down with the high grit sandpaper but nothing terrible. beats repainting a good portion of the vehicle!
the best thing i can tell you (besides what i've already written) is talk to your buddy that does body work and really pick his brain about how to proceed with your truck. he can look it over and give you some options and his opinion on what's best, maybe even point you to a good paint tech that will do it right and cheap. if he works on hot rods it sounds like he's probably dealt with fixing rust so he'll be a great source of info on this.
good luck, and post back about what method you went with, your opinion, and how it holds up.
i've done some body work and i also worked for a paint touch up and spot repair place for a year. now, most of the time we did the quick not so good job and collected our money but that's what the dealerships wanted. once in awhile (or on my own vehicle) we would take our time and try to do things right if time allowed.
you can spray new paint on the vehicle and then used a blending solvent to melt the new and old finishes together for a better (not perfect) look. after working at my job and doing hundreds of cars, i was able to do a pretty decent job after 6 months. this required grinding/sanding old finish or rusted area, cleaning thoroughly, masking off lots of the car, priming, block sanding, cleaning, painting with an HVLP paint gun, clear coating, blending, let cure, wet sand, buff and polish. it was very painstaking but yielded pretty darn good results. but also required lots of equipment, professional ($$$) paints and clear, and 6 months of practice to get the right techniques.
if you're going with the grind and touch up: i think there are several products at the auto parts stores that are for "rust treatment" like Naval Jelly etc that you put on the area after you get as much of the rust off. you might even try spraying some rustoleum out of the can and using a fine (like artist style) paint brush to dab some of that in the area for a base or rust inhibiting primer. not too much though. there are lots of different ways to touch up a vehicle though. we used syringes for rock chips and minor scratches; there's the match method where you get a book of matches, rip one out and cut the end with a razor at a 45* angle and use that as a small point to dab the touch up paint into the area; also they have the touch up bottles with the ball point pen style applicator. you could tape off around the area and spray if you like too, that's a little more involved though. they also sell clear coat touch up too.
you could grind the rust, treat it, apply the color in your desired method and then build the clear coat so it sits above the factory paint, then after it's cured for awhile (maybe a week or a few days) go back with some 1500-2000 grit sand paper on a small sanding block (a hard pencil eraser, etc) you can sand it flush with the existing factory finish, then buff back to a gloss with some 3M compound/polish or something else. i've done this method on my own vehicle and it turns out pretty good.
some one egged my 4runner one night and it took out about 10 little chips of paint down to metal on my quarter panel. i did exactly what i just described and unless you know exactly where to look and you're about an inch away from the surface you can not see it. there may be a slight defection in the sunlight at certain angles from taking a little of the factory clear down with the high grit sandpaper but nothing terrible. beats repainting a good portion of the vehicle!
the best thing i can tell you (besides what i've already written) is talk to your buddy that does body work and really pick his brain about how to proceed with your truck. he can look it over and give you some options and his opinion on what's best, maybe even point you to a good paint tech that will do it right and cheap. if he works on hot rods it sounds like he's probably dealt with fixing rust so he'll be a great source of info on this.
good luck, and post back about what method you went with, your opinion, and how it holds up.
06-07-2009, 08:09 AM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
if you're going with the grind and touch up: you might even try spraying some rustoleum out of the can and using a fine (like artist style) paint brush to dab some of that in the area for a base or rust inhibiting primer. not too much though. there are lots of different ways to touch up a vehicle though. we used syringes for rock chips and minor scratches; there's the match method where you get a book of matches, rip one out and cut the end with a razor at a 45* angle and use that as a small point to dab the touch up paint into the area; also they have the touch up bottles with the ball point pen style applicator. you could tape off around the area and spray if you like too, that's a little more involved though. they also sell clear coat touch up too.
There are MANY little rust spots as can be seen in the photo. I would take my time and grind every spot to the metal (as best I could). I would tape around each spot with painters tape so just that spot is exposed, then put some paper over the whole strip/area and cut holes right where the spot is. This would protect the rest of the area from getting paint and the tape would make sure no paint got outside the chip. Then I could just go down the paper with rustoleum (from 8-10 inches away) in the can until I have a light coat in all the chips. Since it would already be taped, I would go over it with white paint (rattlecan-do you recommend a brand?) for 2-3 light layers the same as the rustoleum. Finally, I was thinking for the clearcoat, I could remove all the tape and paper and use the match method with the clearcoat. It could pool and fill in whatever is left of the chip area, and then if needed I could take it down with light sandpaper.
Does this sound like it could work?
06-07-2009, 10:28 AM
#7
sounds good. if you have a local automotive paint supply store i would check to see if they can load a spray can with your shade of white from the paint code. there are TONS of different shades of every color on cars/trucks, including white. you don't want to just buy a generic can of white or all the little touch up areas will really stand out when you're done. if you have an automotive paint supply store, i would ask them about primer and clear as well, some paints will react negatively with each other so make sure everything you buy is compatible. you don't want to mix certain types or brands of paints.
sounds like you have a solid plan though. good luck.
sounds like you have a solid plan though. good luck.
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06-07-2009, 10:36 AM
#8
Registered User
From those pictures I would swear you live down here on the gulf coast near me.
I have the same problem only it happens every time I get a rock chip in the paint and because of the salt air happens VERY quickly.
What I found works is to get a piece of medium sandpaper and fold it over the eraser of a pencil and use that on each rust spot till its bare metal.
At O'reilly Auto I was able to find primer, paint and clear coat that matched the toyota paint. They sell them in long tubes with a bush like a big thing of fingernail polish.
After you apply the primer give it a very light buff with some VERY fine grit sandpaper to smooth out the brush strokes and then do the same after putting on the top coat of paint before you put on the clear coat.
I have the same problem only it happens every time I get a rock chip in the paint and because of the salt air happens VERY quickly.
What I found works is to get a piece of medium sandpaper and fold it over the eraser of a pencil and use that on each rust spot till its bare metal.
At O'reilly Auto I was able to find primer, paint and clear coat that matched the toyota paint. They sell them in long tubes with a bush like a big thing of fingernail polish.
After you apply the primer give it a very light buff with some VERY fine grit sandpaper to smooth out the brush strokes and then do the same after putting on the top coat of paint before you put on the clear coat.
06-07-2009, 11:20 AM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Yeah I think because of the location in Utah the truck was at there was salt in the air as well like you are saying as well.
It's good to know that O'Reilly can match the paint of Yota's because we have 2 here in Bozeman. I think if I can though I am going to try to get it in a can. I think I would be able to apply it a bit more clean.
If not it looks like I will go the tube route with the brush and sandpaper. How did yours come out after that. I'm sure they were noticeable but only at certain angles? And has the rust been at bay after this operation?
It's good to know that O'Reilly can match the paint of Yota's because we have 2 here in Bozeman. I think if I can though I am going to try to get it in a can. I think I would be able to apply it a bit more clean.
If not it looks like I will go the tube route with the brush and sandpaper. How did yours come out after that. I'm sure they were noticeable but only at certain angles? And has the rust been at bay after this operation?
06-07-2009, 11:50 AM
#10
Registered User
I originally did just primer and paint but no clear coat and it didn't hold up worth a darn. But with a good application or two of clear coat I haven't seen any more rust spots where I've fixed them.
Also be sure to keep a really good coat of wax (good paste wax) on it and it will keep its shine and help to make it not noticeable.
06-07-2009, 12:01 PM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Ok. So as long as I have sandpaper I can get a pretty clean/smooth finish. I guess then I wouldn't have to tape everything off either, just be meticulous.
What did you use for primer? Did that come in a tube as well? And for grit of the fine sandpaper do you recommend 1500?...2000? When sanding these two coats did you wrap it around an eraser for accuracy as not to hit the space around the chip? Or do you want to get a bit of the edges so the coats will blend?
Sorry for all the questions just new to the paint thing.
What did you use for primer? Did that come in a tube as well? And for grit of the fine sandpaper do you recommend 1500?...2000? When sanding these two coats did you wrap it around an eraser for accuracy as not to hit the space around the chip? Or do you want to get a bit of the edges so the coats will blend?
Sorry for all the questions just new to the paint thing.
Last edited by KrashDH; 06-07-2009 at 12:03 PM.
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