Sluggish starting issues

SC4Runner · 11-17-2007, 10:39 AM

Past few weeks, only in the morning, when the truck has been sitting a while, there is a slow start. Like the battery is low. Bought a new battery since I had the last one for like 3 years.

Still doing it. Not every day, just maybe like 3 times a week, but, its really making me worried.

1) Alternator
2) Some sort of slow battery drain?

Whats going on here? How can i see if there is some sort of electricity drain?

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Nate08 · 11-17-2007, 10:41 AM

How old are your spark plugs? I replaced mine with NGK and it starts alot faster.

SC4Runner · 11-17-2007, 11:37 AM

My spark plugs are less than 6 mo old. They are NGK too.

SEAIRESCUE · 11-17-2007, 11:53 AM

--Poor grounds or poor power connections.
--Failing starter
--Very low output alternator

Can take alternator and starter to parts house and have them tested.

Check where battery ground wire goes to engine block. Check the block to
chassis ground wire at back of motor. Put a dab of grease at these points when they are reconnected.

Could be parasitic drain but unlikely.

Tuneup won't help this problem since its inconsistent.

SC4Runner · 11-17-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEAIRESCUE

--Poor grounds or poor power connections.
--Failing starter
--Very low output alternator

Can take alternator and starter to parts house and have them tested.

Check where battery ground wire goes to engine block. Check the block to
chassis ground wire at back of motor. Put a dab of grease at these points when they are reconnected.

Could be parasitic drain but unlikely.

Tuneup won't help this problem since its inconsistent.

Great information. Thankyou, I will check those spots...

Yeah, I don't really see what would be draining the battery... Starter seems like its ok...

Almost seems like the alternator isn't putting out the juice anymore. Maybe I'll try bringing it to get tested.

98runner210 · 11-17-2007, 01:18 PM

FYI if you have a slow crank that wouldn't be spark plugs.

hopper · 11-17-2007, 01:47 PM

Check out this http://www.yotatech.com/f123/re-3-4l...ac-pics-92286/ You may need to clean your throttle body.

98runner210 · 11-17-2007, 02:01 PM

I think he is describing a slow crank. The motor is turning over slowly. Not that it is cranking at normal speed but taking a long time to start. So it's not going to be a fuel, air, or spark issue if this is the case.

SC4Runner · 11-17-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98runner210

I think he is describing a slow crank. The motor is turning over slowly. Not that it is cranking at normal speed but taking a long time to start. So it's not going to be a fuel, air, or spark issue if this is the case.

Right. The crank it self is slow. Once started, its fine. It just seems as if the starter is really struggling to turn the motor over!!!!

Starter or alternator is my guess so far... Anyone have experience in taking out the starter or alt on the 3.4?

98runner210 · 11-17-2007, 03:28 PM

there are plenty or write ups on removing the starter for the contact replacement issue. The alternator is pretty easy, and straightfoward. I replaced mine twice and the only problem I had was getting the new one in. The alt was the exact same size as the bracket so it woouldn't go in. I grinded it down just a bit and it slid in perfectly.

SC4Runner · 11-17-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98runner210

there are plenty or write ups on removing the starter for the contact replacement issue. The alternator is pretty easy, and straightfoward. I replaced mine twice and the only problem I had was getting the new one in. The alt was the exact same size as the bracket so it woouldn't go in. I grinded it down just a bit and it slid in perfectly.

Great, thats good to know...

Texas_Ace · 11-18-2007, 01:46 PM

Kinda funny i have been having the same issue sometimes. I am almost positive that it is the alternator. I went on a long drive awhile back and the next day it started like it should, like th battery was fully charged. Needless to say i am harder on the battery/alternator than some people........

So i am replaceing it with this as soon as i get the $$$: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...104508284&rd=1

then i just need to get the dual batteries figured out (have NO idea how i am going to do that one yet, all the old writeups pictures are missing...)

mkgarrison5 · 11-19-2007, 04:33 AM

what kind of amps do the stock alts throw out from factory? they seem weak to me............... also another thought, check your belts.

SC4Runner · 11-19-2007, 07:05 AM

Well I did a voltage test from the alternator, and its putting out 14 volts, which is normal. And the battery has had a full charge... Sooo, I'm guessing its not the alternator now!!

Looks like the starter. Oh boy.

mkgarrison5 · 11-19-2007, 07:18 AM

very well could be.. now you can get a new or reman'd starter or you can replace the contacts yourself.. cheaper for the contacts but it takes a few hours bc its a biotch (from what i heard). someone will post a link to the write up on replacing the contacts

mkgarrison5 · 11-19-2007, 07:19 AM

now in my taco, if it sits for a couple of days without running OR its pretty cold outside it takes it an extra second to crank.. sounds like its weak but it usually fires up.. so i dunno if thats just the nature of the beast or what

SC4Runner · 11-20-2007, 08:29 AM

Yeah, its pretty weird. Because, I know when Ford starters go out, they go "click, click, click, click". This just takes a little while, and in the morning is about 2-3 turns of the key to make it even go.

I think I might get a re-manned one. I mean, aren't there a million different issues that a starter could have? Its a bunch of parts in there. Who knows...

hmm.

mkgarrison5 · 11-20-2007, 09:12 AM

yeah mine isnt that bad. i just turn the key and it takes an extra second to fire when really cold or sitting for a few days

Ironmike4x4 · 11-20-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_Ace

Kinda funny i have been having the same issue sometimes. I am almost positive that it is the alternator. I went on a long drive awhile back and the next day it started like it should, like th battery was fully charged. Needless to say i am harder on the battery/alternator than some people........

So i am replaceing it with this as soon as i get the $$$: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...104508284&rd=1

then i just need to get the dual batteries figured out (have NO idea how i am going to do that one yet, all the old writeups pictures are missing...)

Texas: I would be very wary of that... I e-mailed a seller of that alternator (not sure if it was the same one or not) and asked if was a TRUE 170amp alternator and that I could test it at work with our Snap On tester. I never got a reply... sounded kinda fishy to me and I asked a local alternator/starter rebuilder and he said our alternators could not be rewound to put more amperage. I did find an aftermarket rebuilder that could custom make one to fit but at a price of $450. I tend to shy away from ebay automotive parts now after I've been screwed over with knockoffs.
To the topic: It looks like to me your starter is dragging.

Texas_Ace · 11-20-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironmike4x4

Texas: I would be very wary of that... I e-mailed a seller of that alternator (not sure if it was the same one or not) and asked if was a TRUE 170amp alternator and that I could test it at work with our Snap On tester. I never got a reply... sounded kinda fishy to me and I asked a local alternator/starter rebuilder and he said our alternators could not be rewound to put more amperage. I did find an aftermarket rebuilder that could custom make one to fit but at a price of $450. I tend to shy away from ebay automotive parts now after I've been screwed over with knockoffs.
To the topic: It looks like to me your starter is dragging.

Interesting, i know that i have seen high-amp alternators for our trucks though. I might have to look for another one, anyone got a good suggestion?

LuminoZ · 11-29-2007, 08:55 PM

Found this thread while searching... My taco takes a few seconds to start, yet the starter sounds plenty stong and healthy... The engine just turns over a few times before it actually starts. I know that my plugs (NGK) only have like 8,000 miles on them so I don't that is the problem.

The only reason I'm asking what could make this happen is that my friend's 88PU with like 250,00 miles starts almost instantly, and quite frankly its emabarrising.

I was going to give the TB and IAC a thourough cleaning this weekend, as I've never cleaned the IAC, and see if that helps.

Does anyone have any ideas on what else I could check?

What about O2 sensors? I'm pretty sure they could stand to be replaced, as I have like 120,000 miles on my rig...

ozziesironmanoffroad · 11-29-2007, 09:11 PM

couldnt it also be that his oil is too heavy? i know in mine if i use 10w-30 instead of 20w-50, it starts a hell of a lot easier in the mornings. but i dont like 10w-30, so yeah. if its a constant thing, does it whether the engine is cold or warm, i think that would be a fuel pressure problem, if only when its cold i believe its due to a thicker oil....

LuminoZ · 11-29-2007, 09:40 PM

I have 5W-30, but yeah... my taco starts quicker when it's warm. But seems to be how everything works.

Ironmike4x4 · 11-30-2007, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_Ace

Interesting, i know that i have seen high-amp alternators for our trucks though. I might have to look for another one, anyone got a good suggestion?

I had to search high and low on google and had to e-mail for custom alternators. I've heard of mralternator, but some other members on here have some bad lucks with them so I'm not so sure.

Texas_Ace · 11-30-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironmike4x4

I had to search high and low on google and had to e-mail for custom alternators. I've heard of mralternator, but some other members on here have some bad lucks with them so I'm not so sure.

I will look into that, i just know that i badly need a better one. After adding the second battery this one just will not hack it anymore. It is having a hard time as it is.

11-17-2007, 10:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
Nate08 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bristol, TN Posts: 647	How old are your spark plugs? I replaced mine with NGK and it starts alot faster. __________________ Nate [/font] Suspension: Tundra TRD Fronts w/ Dual 3/8" "TerraBull" spacers: 2.5",Trekmasters, LC's/OEM LC Shocks: 3.5"... Performance: 4" Deckplate, TrueFlow Air Filter, ISR Mod... Shoes: 285/75/16 Nitto TG's, OEM 16x7 (6 spoke)... Armor: Stubbs Sliders... Exhaust: 18" Magnaflow SIDO, Magnaflow High-Flo Converter, 2.5" and 2.25" piping... Other Necessities: Custom Extendable Panhard Bar, Custom Bumpstop Drop Brackets, 1" Diff Drop...

11-17-2007, 11:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
SC4Runner Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 5th Gen San Diegan, California Posts: 5,885	My spark plugs are less than 6 mo old. They are NGK too. __________________ 1996 4x4 3.4L 4Runner on 35's - 6" of lift, MTR's, E-locked, ARB Tacoma Bumper, Sliders and a cut off tail pipe. 1966 FJ40 - SOA with stock springs, stock 1F motor, and a smelly tailpipe.

11-17-2007, 01:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
98runner210 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 778	FYI if you have a slow crank that wouldn't be spark plugs. __________________ '98 4Runner Limited White w/ silver flares

11-17-2007, 01:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
hopper Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 181	Check out this http://www.yotatech.com/f123/re-3-4l...ac-pics-92286/ You may need to clean your throttle body. __________________ 1998 4runner

11-17-2007, 02:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
98runner210 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 778	I think he is describing a slow crank. The motor is turning over slowly. Not that it is cranking at normal speed but taking a long time to start. So it's not going to be a fuel, air, or spark issue if this is the case. __________________ '98 4Runner Limited White w/ silver flares

11-17-2007, 11:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
SEAIRESCUE Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 491	--Poor grounds or poor power connections. --Failing starter --Very low output alternator Can take alternator and starter to parts house and have them tested. Check where battery ground wire goes to engine block. Check the block to chassis ground wire at back of motor. Put a dab of grease at these points when they are reconnected. Could be parasitic drain but unlikely. Tuneup won't help this problem since its inconsistent.

11-17-2007, 03:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
98runner210 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 778	there are plenty or write ups on removing the starter for the contact replacement issue. The alternator is pretty easy, and straightfoward. I replaced mine twice and the only problem I had was getting the new one in. The alt was the exact same size as the bracket so it woouldn't go in. I grinded it down just a bit and it slid in perfectly. __________________ '98 4Runner Limited White w/ silver flares

11-19-2007, 04:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
mkgarrison5 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NC Posts: 1,516	what kind of amps do the stock alts throw out from factory? they seem weak to me............... also another thought, check your belts. __________________ 02 Tacoma 4-Dr 4x4 V6 117k miles

11-19-2007, 07:05 AM	#14 (permalink)
SC4Runner Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 5th Gen San Diegan, California Posts: 5,885	Well I did a voltage test from the alternator, and its putting out 14 volts, which is normal. And the battery has had a full charge... Sooo, I'm guessing its not the alternator now!! Looks like the starter. Oh boy. __________________ 1996 4x4 3.4L 4Runner on 35's - 6" of lift, MTR's, E-locked, ARB Tacoma Bumper, Sliders and a cut off tail pipe. 1966 FJ40 - SOA with stock springs, stock 1F motor, and a smelly tailpipe.

11-19-2007, 07:18 AM	#15 (permalink)
mkgarrison5 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NC Posts: 1,516	very well could be.. now you can get a new or reman'd starter or you can replace the contacts yourself.. cheaper for the contacts but it takes a few hours bc its a biotch (from what i heard). someone will post a link to the write up on replacing the contacts __________________ 02 Tacoma 4-Dr 4x4 V6 117k miles

11-19-2007, 07:19 AM	#16 (permalink)
mkgarrison5 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NC Posts: 1,516	now in my taco, if it sits for a couple of days without running OR its pretty cold outside it takes it an extra second to crank.. sounds like its weak but it usually fires up.. so i dunno if thats just the nature of the beast or what __________________ 02 Tacoma 4-Dr 4x4 V6 117k miles

11-20-2007, 08:29 AM	#17 (permalink)
SC4Runner Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 5th Gen San Diegan, California Posts: 5,885	Yeah, its pretty weird. Because, I know when Ford starters go out, they go "click, click, click, click". This just takes a little while, and in the morning is about 2-3 turns of the key to make it even go. I think I might get a re-manned one. I mean, aren't there a million different issues that a starter could have? Its a bunch of parts in there. Who knows... hmm. __________________ 1996 4x4 3.4L 4Runner on 35's - 6" of lift, MTR's, E-locked, ARB Tacoma Bumper, Sliders and a cut off tail pipe. 1966 FJ40 - SOA with stock springs, stock 1F motor, and a smelly tailpipe.

11-20-2007, 09:12 AM	#18 (permalink)
mkgarrison5 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NC Posts: 1,516	yeah mine isnt that bad. i just turn the key and it takes an extra second to fire when really cold or sitting for a few days __________________ 02 Tacoma 4-Dr 4x4 V6 117k miles

11-29-2007, 08:55 PM	#21 (permalink)
LuminoZ Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 139	Found this thread while searching... My taco takes a few seconds to start, yet the starter sounds plenty stong and healthy... The engine just turns over a few times before it actually starts. I know that my plugs (NGK) only have like 8,000 miles on them so I don't that is the problem. The only reason I'm asking what could make this happen is that my friend's 88PU with like 250,00 miles starts almost instantly, and quite frankly its emabarrising. I was going to give the TB and IAC a thourough cleaning this weekend, as I've never cleaned the IAC, and see if that helps. Does anyone have any ideas on what else I could check? What about O2 sensors? I'm pretty sure they could stand to be replaced, as I have like 120,000 miles on my rig... __________________ "It's okay! It's a Toyota!" -Shane Simonian 2002 TRD(4x4) SR5 XCab Taco. Valentine One - Gray Wired - AEM BruteForce w/ PreFilter - Magnaflow - Uniden PC78Elite - Wilson5000 - PA Speaker - Disabled DRLs - PIAA Xtreme White H4's - Rhino Lined - ARB Bull Bar - Custom Rear Tube Bumper - BudBuild IFS Skidplate - LightForce 240's - OME 882's on 5100's up front - Alcans with 5100's out back - Wheeler's steering and sway bar bushings - MC Shifter seat bushings -

11-29-2007, 09:11 PM	#22 (permalink)
ozziesironmanoffroad Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Spring Valley, CA Posts: 5,676	couldnt it also be that his oil is too heavy? i know in mine if i use 10w-30 instead of 20w-50, it starts a hell of a lot easier in the mornings. but i dont like 10w-30, so yeah. if its a constant thing, does it whether the engine is cold or warm, i think that would be a fuel pressure problem, if only when its cold i believe its due to a thicker oil.... __________________ The 22r series engines are made from the fires of hell, and will fight tooth and nail to not be sent back. 1988 Toyota P/U 4x4 22re, 1200 miles on the rebuild engine builder .268 cam pioneer CD deck 31x10.50x15 BFG A/T BAJA 100W lights on prerunner bumper KC Daylighters 100W rancho rs5000 MUD IS A VALID PAINT JOB! If not living life to the fullest, why live it? my trucks official buildup thread

11-29-2007, 09:40 PM	#23 (permalink)
LuminoZ Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 139	I have 5W-30, but yeah... my taco starts quicker when it's warm. But seems to be how everything works. __________________ "It's okay! It's a Toyota!" -Shane Simonian 2002 TRD(4x4) SR5 XCab Taco. Valentine One - Gray Wired - AEM BruteForce w/ PreFilter - Magnaflow - Uniden PC78Elite - Wilson5000 - PA Speaker - Disabled DRLs - PIAA Xtreme White H4's - Rhino Lined - ARB Bull Bar - Custom Rear Tube Bumper - BudBuild IFS Skidplate - LightForce 240's - OME 882's on 5100's up front - Alcans with 5100's out back - Wheeler's steering and sway bar bushings - MC Shifter seat bushings -

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