gears/tires

maddmatt02 · 03-12-2004, 12:49 AM

ok, I have heard that the 5.71's were weak, didnt know why at first but i read that it is because the teeth on the pinion are shorter and shorter for each lower gear you go to and at 5.71 they are shorter to the point of weakness. but, wiht a huge lift, which I want, I would want to put some 37's maybe 38's under there, and I know with a 217:1 crawlbox I would push them with no problems off road, or even playing at hgiher speeds using the 4.70's in one case still no problem, but when running the 1:1 2WD high, 5.29's arent gonna push no 38's veruy easy will they. and I am for sure going to wait til I find a 5 speed now that I have been looking at all the mods, like the dual lever T case shifter, body lifts, dual T cases and stuff, none of these are auto tranny friendly, plus since the power is low.

anyways, If i carried a tool box with me like I always do, what all is necessary to install a R&P if I blew the 5.71 while on a trail, cuz they will for sure last on just everyday street driving correct?

superjoe83 · 03-12-2004, 02:17 AM

I have a friend with a '83 with 5.29's and 36" swampers, it gets around ok for what it is, i dont know what year/engine truck that you have but 38's should be "ok" with 5.29's, but wont be no race truck

keisur · 03-12-2004, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddmatt02

anyways, If i carried a tool box with me like I always do, what all is necessary to install a R&P if I blew the 5.71 while on a trail, cuz they will for sure last on just everyday street driving correct?

either carry a complete spare 3rd with proper gearing or pull the rear drive shaft and drive out of the trails using only the front drive train, or the other way around if you blew the front. regearing is not something you want to tackle on the trail. you didn't say what year make and model you are talking about, specs man we need specs. so I'll assume you are talking about a 4runner. 5.71's are rediculously low for a 4runner unless it is strictly a trail rig, which means you would have another vehicle to tow it to the trail head. so you should just need a buddy, never wheel alone, to tow you back to your tow vehicle and take it home where you can do a good job rebuilding the 3rd or take it to a shop where you wouldn't have to worry about it.

KING · 03-12-2004, 07:27 AM

I'm not even sure on this but I'm just throwing it out:

How about 4:10's?

keisur · 03-12-2004, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING

I'm not even sure on this but I'm just throwing it out:

How about 4:10's?

KING · 03-12-2004, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keisur

Is it that bad?

I thought the 4:10 was a strong gear.

Flygtenstein · 03-12-2004, 07:42 AM

The lowest that anyone goes who wheels it hard is 5.29's.

About the largest tire people go with that still drive to trails is a 37" radial, plus or minus.

What this means is that you could run larger than 37's and you could run deeper than 5.29's, but there must be a reason that a lot of others have avoided that route.

What rig is this going on? I have 33's with 3.0 and 5.29's on my 95 auto. I cannot imagine trying to get 38's up to road speed, especially because 38's likely mean a big, heavy, bias ply Swamper. Maybe on a lighter pre-1990 runner with a 5spd and better drivetrain you could push it a little more, but I really think it would be disappointing.

If you don't have the rig yet, I would have a little patience about this. 35's will get you on and over a lot of trails plus be tolerable on the DD.

keisur · 03-12-2004, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING

Is it that bad?

I thought the 4:10 was a strong gear.

they are but this guy is talking 38" tires.

KING · 03-12-2004, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keisur

they are but this guy is talking 38" tires.

The only reason I threw it out is because I know a guy who is running an 8" lift on his FORD with 38" yet running 4:10 gears. I asked if he planned to regear and he answered no, he was running fine with 4:10. I take it now that the guy doesn't know his stuff.

keisur · 03-12-2004, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING

The only reason I threw it out is because I know a guy who is running an 8" lift on his FORD with 38" yet running 4:10 gears. I asked if he planned to regear and he answered no, he was running fine with 4:10. I take it now that the guy doesn't know his stuff.

just seems to me he'd be lacking in torque offroad and top gear acceleration would be pittyful. I ran 4.10's when I first got my 285's for about 9 months. when I finally went to 4.88's I was glad I did. I can chirp the tires now in 1st and 2nd and I can finally pass people without having to downshift to 3rd and stomping the gas. Given that experience, a 4runner would barely move with 38's and 4.10's. somehwer I saw a link to the BFG gear ratio calculator but I can't find it now. You can see what a difference there is between 4.10's and 38's and 5.71's and 38's.

maybe the Fords are geared differently up front but his engine more than likely is pushing more horses which could make it easier. I wish the V6 4runners would push the 250 to 300 hp mark STOCK. that would be nice.

Flygtenstein · 03-12-2004, 08:40 AM

If the Ford had a 460 or 351, it likely laughed at those tires on less they were 18" or whatever really wide Cepek's.

Yeah, 4.10's are stronger. No they will not make driving 38's on the road fun, and your clutch will hate you.

Scott Ellinger ran 4.10's with a 22RE turning 44's on the first Mantis. He needed to start moving with one case in low. Probably not the sort of thing I would want to do on a DD.

keisur · 03-12-2004, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flygtenstein

Scott Ellinger ran 4.10's with a 22RE turning 44's on the first Mantis. He needed to start moving with one case in lo. Probably not the sort of thing I would want to do on a DD.

come on, where's your sense of adventure? just kidding.

toy283 · 03-12-2004, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING

The only reason I threw it out is because I know a guy who is running an 8" lift on his FORD with 38" yet running 4:10 gears. I asked if he planned to regear and he answered no, he was running fine with 4:10. I take it now that the guy doesn't know his stuff.

It's all a matter of torque. If you increase the tire size, you increase the amount of torque needed. This can be accomplished in two ways: regear to lower gears or increase available torque from the engine. A V8 is gonna have way more torque than a 4 cylinder. FWIW, I run 38's with 4.10 gears and 400ft-lbs torque at the crank. For highway driving, I have considered gearing up to 3.90's but the cost isn't justifiable.

keisur · 03-12-2004, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toy283

It's all a matter of torque. If you increase the tire size, you increase the amount of torque needed. This can be accomplished in two ways: regear to lower gears or increase available torque from the engine. A V8 is gonna have way more torque than a 4 cylinder. FWIW, I run 38's with 4.10 gears and 400ft-lbs torque at the crank. For highway driving, I have considered gearing up to 3.90's but the cost isn't justifiable.

that's what I was trying to say above but it didn't come out that pretty.

KING · 03-12-2004, 06:27 PM

If this makes a difference, a 7.3 liter turbo charged diesel was pushing the 38" with 4:10s plus a monster exhaust all the way out.

keisur · 03-12-2004, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING

If this makes a difference, a 7.3 liter turbo charged diesel was pushing the 38" with 4:10s plus a monster exhaust all the way out.

ah. well that explains it. way more torque then our panty-waste vehicles, haha.

maddmatt02 · 03-12-2004, 10:48 PM

yeahs, that powerstroke is a real beast, my aunt pulls whats gotta be a 20-25 foot horsetrailer with 2 horses behind the F350 crew cab and its like it isnt behind it, well you do know its behind the truck but it had no problem at all cruising with that railer behind it.

and about the gears, this is going to be my daily driver, and it is going to be a 2nd gen runner, 5 speed, if I can get enough out of my 2 cars for sale I am going to go over to my dads friends house and putting some leafs in the rear and SAS'ing the rig. also I wanna throw some x.xx's in and detroit ez lockers F&R, and if I wanna put in the crawlbox with stokc gears in one and 4.70's in the other. I will probably go wiht the 35's at first then I guess since I will wanna go offroad wiht it alot, 5.29's are strong enough though right? cuz 4.88's pushing 35's on the highway sounds like it wouldnt be no fun, and then if I did go to 38's sometime, then wow that would suck. I wanna go ahead and do the SAS/rear leaf first though because I got a friend that my dad knows and helps out alot so Im sure hed help me, and he is really good at working with metal. Plus the price of the front gears/front lift and rear lift, would be better used for some of the funding for the SAS/rear leaf so that I dont have to sell it all when I decide to change, plus its alot easier to get more lift with leafs. shackles/blocks/different leafs. cuz the front gears are different for the IFS and the SA, right?

superjoe83 · 03-13-2004, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddmatt02

cuz the front gears are different for the IFS and the SA, right?

the ifs front uses a 7.5" ring gear, and, the normal toy (non tacoma) solid axle is a 8" ring gear, the 3rd members are interchangeable between the front and rear on 8" solid axles. (someone correct me if im wrong)

toy283 · 03-13-2004, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superjoe83

the ifs front uses a 7.5" ring gear, and, the normal toy (non tacoma) solid axle is a 8" ring gear, the 3rd members are interchangeable between the front and rear on 8" solid axles. (someone correct me if im wrong)

Nope. You nailed it.

Cebby · 03-13-2004, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toy283

Nope. You nailed it.

Does that mean you could run dual Toyota E-Lockers from 4Runners/Tacos in there (with the housing mod of course)?

03-12-2004, 12:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
maddmatt02 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: clinton, WA Posts: 154	gears/tires ok, I have heard that the 5.71's were weak, didnt know why at first but i read that it is because the teeth on the pinion are shorter and shorter for each lower gear you go to and at 5.71 they are shorter to the point of weakness. but, wiht a huge lift, which I want, I would want to put some 37's maybe 38's under there, and I know with a 217:1 crawlbox I would push them with no problems off road, or even playing at hgiher speeds using the 4.70's in one case still no problem, but when running the 1:1 2WD high, 5.29's arent gonna push no 38's veruy easy will they. and I am for sure going to wait til I find a 5 speed now that I have been looking at all the mods, like the dual lever T case shifter, body lifts, dual T cases and stuff, none of these are auto tranny friendly, plus since the power is low. anyways, If i carried a tool box with me like I always do, what all is necessary to install a R&P if I blew the 5.71 while on a trail, cuz they will for sure last on just everyday street driving correct?

03-12-2004, 02:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
superjoe83 Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 1,872	I have a friend with a '83 with 5.29's and 36" swampers, it gets around ok for what it is, i dont know what year/engine truck that you have but 38's should be "ok" with 5.29's, but wont be no race truck __________________ - Joe 1984 SR5 4runner, 22re, 5-speed, chevy 63"s, rears up front custom pack, BBCS shocks, 2" BL, 5.29's, welded rear, Detroit in front, Longfields, IFS Rear, 39.5x13.50x15 IROK's, Marlin's High Steer, MC07 with stock cases, Marlin's cross member, tube bumper, Warn XD9000, Allied Beadlocks 1999 Taco 2.7 5-speed, LCE Header, Jardine 2.25 Cat-Back, 3" Downey Coilover, 33x13.5 Toyo MT's, ARB Bull Bar, Retrofitted Acura TL HID Projectors with 4300k Philips bulbs

03-12-2004, 08:40 AM	#11 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,257	If the Ford had a 460 or 351, it likely laughed at those tires on less they were 18" or whatever really wide Cepek's. Yeah, 4.10's are stronger. No they will not make driving 38's on the road fun, and your clutch will hate you. Scott Ellinger ran 4.10's with a 22RE turning 44's on the first Mantis. He needed to start moving with one case in low. Probably not the sort of thing I would want to do on a DD. Last edited by Flygtenstein : 03-12-2004 at 01:01 PM.

03-12-2004, 07:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
KING Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: PEORIA, AZ Posts: 1,854	I'm not even sure on this but I'm just throwing it out: How about 4:10's?

03-12-2004, 07:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,257	The lowest that anyone goes who wheels it hard is 5.29's. About the largest tire people go with that still drive to trails is a 37" radial, plus or minus. What this means is that you could run larger than 37's and you could run deeper than 5.29's, but there must be a reason that a lot of others have avoided that route. What rig is this going on? I have 33's with 3.0 and 5.29's on my 95 auto. I cannot imagine trying to get 38's up to road speed, especially because 38's likely mean a big, heavy, bias ply Swamper. Maybe on a lighter pre-1990 runner with a 5spd and better drivetrain you could push it a little more, but I really think it would be disappointing. If you don't have the rig yet, I would have a little patience about this. 35's will get you on and over a lot of trails plus be tolerable on the DD.

03-12-2004, 06:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
KING Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: PEORIA, AZ Posts: 1,854	If this makes a difference, a 7.3 liter turbo charged diesel was pushing the 38" with 4:10s plus a monster exhaust all the way out.

03-12-2004, 10:48 PM	#17 (permalink)
maddmatt02 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: clinton, WA Posts: 154	yeahs, that powerstroke is a real beast, my aunt pulls whats gotta be a 20-25 foot horsetrailer with 2 horses behind the F350 crew cab and its like it isnt behind it, well you do know its behind the truck but it had no problem at all cruising with that railer behind it. and about the gears, this is going to be my daily driver, and it is going to be a 2nd gen runner, 5 speed, if I can get enough out of my 2 cars for sale I am going to go over to my dads friends house and putting some leafs in the rear and SAS'ing the rig. also I wanna throw some x.xx's in and detroit ez lockers F&R, and if I wanna put in the crawlbox with stokc gears in one and 4.70's in the other. I will probably go wiht the 35's at first then I guess since I will wanna go offroad wiht it alot, 5.29's are strong enough though right? cuz 4.88's pushing 35's on the highway sounds like it wouldnt be no fun, and then if I did go to 38's sometime, then wow that would suck. I wanna go ahead and do the SAS/rear leaf first though because I got a friend that my dad knows and helps out alot so Im sure hed help me, and he is really good at working with metal. Plus the price of the front gears/front lift and rear lift, would be better used for some of the funding for the SAS/rear leaf so that I dont have to sell it all when I decide to change, plus its alot easier to get more lift with leafs. shackles/blocks/different leafs. cuz the front gears are different for the IFS and the SA, right?