Gear Raito...
02-10-2004, 06:51 PM
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Gear Raito...
So I've decided I want to go with a 2" body lift and some 35x12.50s, and I know I'd have to regear. What ratio would I need? I'm also interested to know more about SAS. (I'm new to this) Obviously, your swapping the IFS for a solid axle. What are the pros/cons? How costly is it? What is involved? Sorry for the two topic question. :pat:
02-10-2004, 07:04 PM
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Here's a link to determine your new gear ratio I found on another post here:
http://www.ramblerman.com/blazer/gearcalc.htm
http://www.ramblerman.com/blazer/gearcalc.htm
02-10-2004, 07:14 PM
#3
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5.29s are the proper gear ratio for 35s. If you are considering a locker, get it done at the same time as the gears. I'm assuming that you already have a lift because a 2" body lift over stock height will not clear 35s. a SAS would cost at least $1500, but more accurately in the $3000 range depending on how much work you do yourself and what you decide to go with. The pros to a solid front axle is that it is a much simpler suspension system than the IFS and it is far far superior if you do any offroading. the downside is that on-road driving will be rougher and then also the cost of the SAS.
at this right now.
02-10-2004, 07:53 PM
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Both 4.88's and 5.29's are good for 35's. 5.29's will be a little low for high-speed driving (I don't go above 70).
About the locker: I'm sure you have had a friend that has peeled out and only left one skid mark from the one tire of fire. A locker will solve the problem and make both tires spin so you get better grip. This helps when you are wheeling so that when you lift a tire you don't lose grip.
About the locker: I'm sure you have had a friend that has peeled out and only left one skid mark from the one tire of fire. A locker will solve the problem and make both tires spin so you get better grip. This helps when you are wheeling so that when you lift a tire you don't lose grip.
02-10-2004, 08:07 PM
#6
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here's a link to a SAS write up
and i've copied and pasted this from randy's ring and pinion web site. he explains it perfectly. lots of reading, but its worth it.
Standard Carriers, Positraction & Limited Slips, Locking Differentials, Spools and Mini-Spools
As an opening note, for all situations except factory OEM electric lockers, a standard open carrier can be replaced with a limited slip or locker. Likewise, a locker or limited slip can be replaced with a standard open carrier. Limited slips and lockers can be interchanged. And of coarse, a spool can be installed in place of all of them. The main point is that the differential carrier unit design is independent of the housing it is being installed into. (We are keeping the information presented here limited to American rear wheel drive passenger cars, American trucks up to 1-1/2 ton, and Toyota Trucks) When changing differential carriers that support the ring gear, there are many rearend designs that use more than one height carrier case. In these cases, the differential carrier case must match the gear ratio and ring gear thickness. If someone tells you that the housing you have will not accept the ratio you want, they are probably wrong, but that is a whole different story.
When it comes to deciding which differential to use, there are now almost too many limited slip and locking differentials to choose from and it takes a knowledgeable sales person to help the customer choose a design that will serve their needs.
Standard / Open Carrier:
Whenever a vehicle negotiates a turn, the outside wheel must travel farther than the inside wheel. In order for this to happen, the outside wheel must turn faster than the inside wheel. This is accomplished by spider gears that allow the outside wheel to turn faster (this can be either the left or the right, but must be the outside wheel) than the ring gear, while the inside wheel turns slower than the ring gear. The net sum of the speed of the two wheels is twice as fast as the ring gear. That means if the outside wheel is turning 2 rpm faster than the ring gear, the inside wheel is turning 2 rpm slower than the ring gear. This differential action is very straightforward in a standard open differential and works great for more than 95% of vehicles on the road today.
When a vehicle with an open or a standard differential encounter a loose traction surface, it directs power to the wheel with the least resistance. The resulting action is the wheel on the loose surface spins while the opposite wheel on the better traction surface stands still or barely transfers power. The reason a standard open differential works this way is because it is designed to provide equal force to both sides. If the wheel on either side looses traction the other side suffers as well. If for example, the left wheel looses traction and can not provide a resistance force from the left wheel back to the differential side gear, then the right side gear can not transfer a force to the right wheel that is greater than the resistance force of the slipping left wheel. And vice versa. Re-read this a few times and it will make more sense. The main point to remember is that an open differential provides equal power to both sides, NOT equal speed.
An open differential works just fine for 95% of vehicles on the road since most people do not spin their tires often if at all. For those of us who like to burn rubber or go off the dry pavement, there are now too many limited slip and locking differentials to choose from.
Positractions & Limited Slips:
Transmits equal torque to both wheels when driving straight ahead. However when one wheel spins due to loss of traction, a patch of ice, mud, too much throttle, etc., the unit automatically provides more torque to the wheel that has traction. Recommended for daily driving, works well in ice, rain, mud and snow. However, in situations where absolute lockup is needed, a limited slip is not the best choice due to the fact that limited slips do slip in some situations.
Positraction is a type of limited slip and is a term that is used very loosely as another name or description for limited slip differentials. A positraction is not more aggressive than a limited slip or vice versa. The name "positraction" was used by General Motors for their limited slip differential and the name has been associated with limited slips for many years.
Automatic Lockers:
Lockers, mechanical locking differentials that is, provide 100% transfer of power to both drive wheels. This power can be lost if both wheels spin, but a locking differential will never let one wheel spin free by itself while the other one sits still (unless the unit is broken). Automatic locking differentials are engineered to keep both wheels in a constant drive mode, yet have the ability to unlock to permit a difference in wheel speed while negotiating turns. Recommended for serious off-roaders or serious hot-rodders, can be annoying for everyday driving. The main shortcoming of automatic lockers is the noise or banging and clunking inherent in their design. When getting on or off the throttle they tend to bang or clunk. And they sometimes make noise while disengaging when negotiating a turn. These characteristics are due to the design and a few locker manufacturers have come up with designs that make less noise, but no one has developed a perfectly quiet automatic locker yet. One more effect of lockers that hampers every day use, is, they only drive the inside wheel on a turn which can effect vehicle handling. The specific effects of driving the inside wheel is the vehicle tends to yaw from side to side slightly when negotiating a turn under power. When turning sharply while taking off from stop, the inside wheel will tend to spin easily. This is especially more prominent when taking off on a right turn for two reasons. The torque on the rearend housing due to the driveline torque un-weights the right wheel, and right hand turns are tighter because we drive on the right side of the road and we have to cross over the oncoming lane to make a left hand turn which makes it a lot less sharp.
On-Command Lockers:
Many people want the benefits of a locking differential, but do not want the handling characteristics or noise of an automatic locker. There are a few on-command lockers available as an OEM option. These include the 1998 & newer Toyota Tacoma & Land Cruiser. These EOM designs use an electric motor or vacuum diaphragm to engage the locker. When it is not engaged the unit acts like a standard open differential with no ill side effects aside from poor traction. When engaged, these units' lockup 100% and act like a spool with no differential action or difference in speed between the left and right wheels allowed.
Spools & Mini Spools:
For racing, serious off-road, or crazy hot-rodders, a spool is the ultimate traction differential. Actually, it can hardly be called a differential because it does not differentiate. Spools have several purposes in a differential. First, they lock both left and right axles solid together so that there can be no loss of power due to the unit allowing one wheel to spin faster than the other. Second, they usually support the ring gear much better than most other differentials. Last, they can be lighter than a differential, which saves rotating mass as well as un-sprung weight that the suspension has to contain. The main shortcoming of spools is the fact that the outside wheel has to turn faster when negotiating a turn if both wheels are to maintain traction. If the axles are locked together, one or both wheels have to slip in order for the outside wheel to travel farther than the inside wheel. This can cause the rear of the vehicle to spin out, fish-tale, or can cause a lot of noise that sounds like positraction clutch chatter as the axles twist and release. Sometimes these effects are not all that bad, and they are less severe when 35-spline or larger axles are used. For those people on a budget, there are mini-spools available for many rearend designs. A mini-spool fits inside the standard open carrier, replacing the spider gears, and locking the left and right axle shafts together just like a spool does. A mini spool drives exactly like a full spool does, but they are not as strong as a full spool and do not add any extra support to the ring gear like a spool does.
and i've copied and pasted this from randy's ring and pinion web site. he explains it perfectly. lots of reading, but its worth it.
Standard Carriers, Positraction & Limited Slips, Locking Differentials, Spools and Mini-Spools
As an opening note, for all situations except factory OEM electric lockers, a standard open carrier can be replaced with a limited slip or locker. Likewise, a locker or limited slip can be replaced with a standard open carrier. Limited slips and lockers can be interchanged. And of coarse, a spool can be installed in place of all of them. The main point is that the differential carrier unit design is independent of the housing it is being installed into. (We are keeping the information presented here limited to American rear wheel drive passenger cars, American trucks up to 1-1/2 ton, and Toyota Trucks) When changing differential carriers that support the ring gear, there are many rearend designs that use more than one height carrier case. In these cases, the differential carrier case must match the gear ratio and ring gear thickness. If someone tells you that the housing you have will not accept the ratio you want, they are probably wrong, but that is a whole different story.
When it comes to deciding which differential to use, there are now almost too many limited slip and locking differentials to choose from and it takes a knowledgeable sales person to help the customer choose a design that will serve their needs.
Standard / Open Carrier:
Whenever a vehicle negotiates a turn, the outside wheel must travel farther than the inside wheel. In order for this to happen, the outside wheel must turn faster than the inside wheel. This is accomplished by spider gears that allow the outside wheel to turn faster (this can be either the left or the right, but must be the outside wheel) than the ring gear, while the inside wheel turns slower than the ring gear. The net sum of the speed of the two wheels is twice as fast as the ring gear. That means if the outside wheel is turning 2 rpm faster than the ring gear, the inside wheel is turning 2 rpm slower than the ring gear. This differential action is very straightforward in a standard open differential and works great for more than 95% of vehicles on the road today.
When a vehicle with an open or a standard differential encounter a loose traction surface, it directs power to the wheel with the least resistance. The resulting action is the wheel on the loose surface spins while the opposite wheel on the better traction surface stands still or barely transfers power. The reason a standard open differential works this way is because it is designed to provide equal force to both sides. If the wheel on either side looses traction the other side suffers as well. If for example, the left wheel looses traction and can not provide a resistance force from the left wheel back to the differential side gear, then the right side gear can not transfer a force to the right wheel that is greater than the resistance force of the slipping left wheel. And vice versa. Re-read this a few times and it will make more sense. The main point to remember is that an open differential provides equal power to both sides, NOT equal speed.
An open differential works just fine for 95% of vehicles on the road since most people do not spin their tires often if at all. For those of us who like to burn rubber or go off the dry pavement, there are now too many limited slip and locking differentials to choose from.
Positractions & Limited Slips:
Transmits equal torque to both wheels when driving straight ahead. However when one wheel spins due to loss of traction, a patch of ice, mud, too much throttle, etc., the unit automatically provides more torque to the wheel that has traction. Recommended for daily driving, works well in ice, rain, mud and snow. However, in situations where absolute lockup is needed, a limited slip is not the best choice due to the fact that limited slips do slip in some situations.
Positraction is a type of limited slip and is a term that is used very loosely as another name or description for limited slip differentials. A positraction is not more aggressive than a limited slip or vice versa. The name "positraction" was used by General Motors for their limited slip differential and the name has been associated with limited slips for many years.
Automatic Lockers:
Lockers, mechanical locking differentials that is, provide 100% transfer of power to both drive wheels. This power can be lost if both wheels spin, but a locking differential will never let one wheel spin free by itself while the other one sits still (unless the unit is broken). Automatic locking differentials are engineered to keep both wheels in a constant drive mode, yet have the ability to unlock to permit a difference in wheel speed while negotiating turns. Recommended for serious off-roaders or serious hot-rodders, can be annoying for everyday driving. The main shortcoming of automatic lockers is the noise or banging and clunking inherent in their design. When getting on or off the throttle they tend to bang or clunk. And they sometimes make noise while disengaging when negotiating a turn. These characteristics are due to the design and a few locker manufacturers have come up with designs that make less noise, but no one has developed a perfectly quiet automatic locker yet. One more effect of lockers that hampers every day use, is, they only drive the inside wheel on a turn which can effect vehicle handling. The specific effects of driving the inside wheel is the vehicle tends to yaw from side to side slightly when negotiating a turn under power. When turning sharply while taking off from stop, the inside wheel will tend to spin easily. This is especially more prominent when taking off on a right turn for two reasons. The torque on the rearend housing due to the driveline torque un-weights the right wheel, and right hand turns are tighter because we drive on the right side of the road and we have to cross over the oncoming lane to make a left hand turn which makes it a lot less sharp.
On-Command Lockers:
Many people want the benefits of a locking differential, but do not want the handling characteristics or noise of an automatic locker. There are a few on-command lockers available as an OEM option. These include the 1998 & newer Toyota Tacoma & Land Cruiser. These EOM designs use an electric motor or vacuum diaphragm to engage the locker. When it is not engaged the unit acts like a standard open differential with no ill side effects aside from poor traction. When engaged, these units' lockup 100% and act like a spool with no differential action or difference in speed between the left and right wheels allowed.
Spools & Mini Spools:
For racing, serious off-road, or crazy hot-rodders, a spool is the ultimate traction differential. Actually, it can hardly be called a differential because it does not differentiate. Spools have several purposes in a differential. First, they lock both left and right axles solid together so that there can be no loss of power due to the unit allowing one wheel to spin faster than the other. Second, they usually support the ring gear much better than most other differentials. Last, they can be lighter than a differential, which saves rotating mass as well as un-sprung weight that the suspension has to contain. The main shortcoming of spools is the fact that the outside wheel has to turn faster when negotiating a turn if both wheels are to maintain traction. If the axles are locked together, one or both wheels have to slip in order for the outside wheel to travel farther than the inside wheel. This can cause the rear of the vehicle to spin out, fish-tale, or can cause a lot of noise that sounds like positraction clutch chatter as the axles twist and release. Sometimes these effects are not all that bad, and they are less severe when 35-spline or larger axles are used. For those people on a budget, there are mini-spools available for many rearend designs. A mini-spool fits inside the standard open carrier, replacing the spider gears, and locking the left and right axle shafts together just like a spool does. A mini spool drives exactly like a full spool does, but they are not as strong as a full spool and do not add any extra support to the ring gear like a spool does.
Last edited by Brendan; 02-10-2004 at 08:08 PM.
02-10-2004, 08:10 PM
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So the 4:88s would be better on-road...less RPMs? Which would keep the final drive raito as close to stock as possible? Or mabey just a hare lower than stock.
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02-10-2004, 08:23 PM
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AWESOME! Thanks so much for all the great info SizzleChest! The SAS is very tempting! There's just too many cool mods and never enough cash!
02-10-2004, 08:31 PM
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Sorry, but I am going to steal this just for a sec.
hey Kev93p-up, is there any good wheel'n in Amarillo???
It sucks down here in Scabilene ..errr.. I ment Abilene.
I need to find a place to wheel....
ok back to the bl, 35's and gears...
hey Kev93p-up, is there any good wheel'n in Amarillo???
It sucks down here in Scabilene ..errr.. I ment Abilene.
I need to find a place to wheel....
ok back to the bl, 35's and gears...
02-10-2004, 08:32 PM
#11
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Originally posted by kev93p-up
AWESOME! Thanks so much for all the great info SizzleChest! The SAS is very tempting! There's just too many cool mods and never enough cash!
AWESOME! Thanks so much for all the great info SizzleChest! The SAS is very tempting! There's just too many cool mods and never enough cash!
02-11-2004, 01:23 PM
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Sorry for the delay Herkengineer! There's not a lot of places up here for wheeling. We do have the Canadian River about 20 miles north of here. That's a pretty cool place to go with a pretty good variety of terrain...riverbed (there's not usually a lot of water), trail, hills. But that's about it close to here. I just don't really know anyone around to buddy up with, and I really don't want to get stuck out there alone. When I do get to go out there I try not to get too crazy.
02-11-2004, 06:40 PM
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with my 35", i'm running 4.88 with a v6/5-speed. for the highway, it works fine. i wish i had 5.29 though for a little better acceleration and for the lower gearing off road. my buddy has the same setup but runs 5.29 instead. i think he doesn't like how high it revs on the highway. i think i'm around 75 at 3k.
02-12-2004, 04:25 AM
#18
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Originally posted by kev93p-up
Are there many wheeling events or places in your aera? Edmond is only about 4 hrs from me.
Are there many wheeling events or places in your aera? Edmond is only about 4 hrs from me.
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