Block heater question
10-06-2006, 07:49 PM
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Block heater question
Has anyone ever use one of those heaters that goes into the radiator hoses? Are they worth installing, or would I be better going with an actaullly block heater. I don't think it gets cold enough in my area to really justify one, but I like the idea of having almost instant heat when it's 15 degrees...
10-09-2006, 06:57 AM
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Anyone??? The reason why I am asking this is because I have searched through other posts and have read how hard it can be to install the block heaters. The ones that go on the radiator hoses are very simple to install and are only 600W, which I think is very close to what the block heaters are.
10-09-2006, 07:15 AM
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I've thought about this too but kind of decided against it because I figured it was one more place to leak and I was concerned about it decreasing the amount of coolant flow in the summer time. If properly installed these are probably moot points. You could also have a specific summer and winter hose, one with the lower hose heater installed and another that has been un-molested. I might go this route or screw it and just put the dang thing in and call it good. We have them on our Airport equipment and they work pretty good. I'd recommend putting it on a wall timer so it doesn't run all night. If you get up at 6:00am have it set for 3:00am.
10-09-2006, 07:28 AM
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I had a hose heater in my old Mercedes that was put in by the PO, and I couldn't tell if the thing was installed correctly, because it would heat the hose and radiator and but not the block. I think I will study those old posts again on how to install the block heater, and then study my engine and where it goes, and how much room there is to work with, then I might install one of those. I know on the Subaru's they just install on the block drain plug, right over the top of the thermostat, I wish everyone else had a design like that...
10-09-2006, 09:45 AM
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I have an alternate option - a pad heater glued to the oil pan.
It seems like a good idea as the heat isn't localized, oil gets warm, heat rises...
Alternate options - a Webasto heater - circulates coolant as it heats it, heats cabin, remote controlled, timer controlled, sweet...
uberhahn
It seems like a good idea as the heat isn't localized, oil gets warm, heat rises...
Alternate options - a Webasto heater - circulates coolant as it heats it, heats cabin, remote controlled, timer controlled, sweet...
uberhahn
10-09-2006, 09:53 AM
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Has anyone ever use one of those heaters that goes into the radiator hoses? Are they worth installing, or would I be better going with an actaullly block heater. I don't think it gets cold enough in my area to really justify one, but I like the idea of having almost instant heat when it's 15 degrees...
Last edited by MTL_4runner; 10-09-2006 at 09:54 AM.
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10-10-2006, 09:06 AM
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The point of the pre-heater is to ensure that the engine doesn't start "dry", or at least that the "dry" time is minimized. This is typically done by pre-heating the oil or engine block. Cold oil doesn't flow well, while warm oil does.
The remote starter is good for the driver, as the car is warm, but does not solve the problem of the actual cold start.
Even JC Whitney has pad heaters at a reasonable price.
The remote starter is good for the driver, as the car is warm, but does not solve the problem of the actual cold start.
Even JC Whitney has pad heaters at a reasonable price.
10-10-2006, 09:34 AM
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I had several diesels in my life and all of them had various kinds of block heaters which I installed myself.
The first was the hose-type heater. It WILL heat the block if you install it on a hose which is dierectly below the block. Trust me, it heats the coolant which opens up the thermostat and heats the block. I remember putting my hand on the block and it was always warm right down to -15 below.
The second type (much better) acutally installs in one of the engine block freeze plugs. It has a small electric coil and works exactly the same way an electric water heater works. These are extremely effective and heat the block much faster than the hose installed type.
Do not use a dipstick style heater. All they do is heat the oil and they are a fire hazard.
The first was the hose-type heater. It WILL heat the block if you install it on a hose which is dierectly below the block. Trust me, it heats the coolant which opens up the thermostat and heats the block. I remember putting my hand on the block and it was always warm right down to -15 below.
The second type (much better) acutally installs in one of the engine block freeze plugs. It has a small electric coil and works exactly the same way an electric water heater works. These are extremely effective and heat the block much faster than the hose installed type.
Do not use a dipstick style heater. All they do is heat the oil and they are a fire hazard.
Last edited by Potomacduck; 10-10-2006 at 09:35 AM.
10-10-2006, 10:16 AM
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The point of a block heater is to make starting easier, and to ensure your oil is of flowing temperature. Yes they are very nice and allow you to warm up much sooner...
If you live in a cold area the best and cheapest thing to do is to get a oil pan warmer(put a good synthetic in there) and if you have a auto a remote starter. Plug the rig in when you shut down and fire it up 5-10 minutes before you leave. Leave the heater OFF until your engine is warm. Running the heater on hi when the engine is cold only makes you colder and takes much longer to warm the block up. You will spend much much less money. Block heaters are 600w, the amount of time they run adds up quick. If its cold enough to need one you really need to leave it plugged in from the last time the rig was warm, it will maintain a temperature bit if your block gets to -30 its going to take a very very very long time to heat it up.
I have one in my block and have never used it, the only time I wish I had was before I had one and it was 25 below in W Yellowstone... truck starts fine I just wanted it to warm up a bit quicker..
Gas engines will start just fine at very very cold temperatures, block heaters are more important on diesel engines where the heat is what combusts the fuel, but moden diesels are much better and can be started well below zero without block heaters.
If you live in a cold area the best and cheapest thing to do is to get a oil pan warmer(put a good synthetic in there) and if you have a auto a remote starter. Plug the rig in when you shut down and fire it up 5-10 minutes before you leave. Leave the heater OFF until your engine is warm. Running the heater on hi when the engine is cold only makes you colder and takes much longer to warm the block up. You will spend much much less money. Block heaters are 600w, the amount of time they run adds up quick. If its cold enough to need one you really need to leave it plugged in from the last time the rig was warm, it will maintain a temperature bit if your block gets to -30 its going to take a very very very long time to heat it up.
I have one in my block and have never used it, the only time I wish I had was before I had one and it was 25 below in W Yellowstone... truck starts fine I just wanted it to warm up a bit quicker..
Gas engines will start just fine at very very cold temperatures, block heaters are more important on diesel engines where the heat is what combusts the fuel, but moden diesels are much better and can be started well below zero without block heaters.
10-10-2006, 11:11 AM
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I would go with a toyota block heater they cost next to nothing at the dealer and are not that hard to install, biggest PITA is pulling the frost plug out of the block to install the thing. The one got from the dealer for my old '87 was rated at 1000W. Plugged her in every night and I was at normal op. temp. in minutes after starting, full defrost avail. in less time then that.
A Tanis heater pad attached to the oil pan would work also. You can get from them almost any aircrfat maintenance facility or check out Aircraft Spruce online they mail order to just about everyplace.
Aviator
A Tanis heater pad attached to the oil pan would work also. You can get from them almost any aircrfat maintenance facility or check out Aircraft Spruce online they mail order to just about everyplace.
Aviator
10-11-2006, 06:48 AM
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I understand the use of a block heater and what it is for but there are 2 issues at large. The best (ie most efficient) type of heater is by far the freeze plug heater.....to bad it is a serious PITA to install. The second issue is that you're talking about wasting alot of electricity (anywhere from 500-1000W or more.....and not sure about you guys, but that stuff isn't free up here anyway) to preheat the motor all night (not to mention dealing with extension cords and remembering to plug it in each night). 123c said his issue was just that the truck wasn't warm enough when he got in, so a remote start is a pretty logical step and you can't beat the convienence. Seems like everyone and his brother up here in Canada have dealer installed heaters and an extension cord hanging out the front of their grill (nearly every car/truck sold had some sort of "cold weather package/option" installed on it before being sold) and I can't think of one person that uses them on a regular basis. Some might use it occasionally below -30 but it is more just a precaution to be sure the car/truck will still start (usually it would have started without anyway).
Last edited by MTL_4runner; 10-11-2006 at 08:22 AM.
10-11-2006, 11:11 PM
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I got my extension cord hooked up to a timer set to come on a few hours before I usually leave for work in the morning. When I'm on call I set it to cycle on and off several times through out the day and night so the vehicle is always ready to go guaranteed. I only plug it in when the forecast is for
-10*C or colder.
-10*C or colder.
10-12-2006, 12:21 AM
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I got my extension cord hooked up to a timer set to come on a few hours before I usually leave for work in the morning. When I'm on call I set it to cycle on and off several times through out the day and night so the vehicle is always ready to go guaranteed. I only plug it in when the forecast is for
-10*C or colder.
-10*C or colder.
Do you actually notice a difference? At -10 it takes no time for your block to cool off when the heater is turned off, the probally takes hours to heat back up to even +10...
10-12-2006, 06:28 AM
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Several issues on this thread. Here is my nickel's worth.
1) If the issue is just having a comfortable cabin at 15 degrees F, then I suggest installing seat heaters or invest in a pair of long underwear. Seat heaters are a wonderful thing and provide nearly instant heat to the most sensitive parts of your body. No stress on the vehicle, other than a few more amps being drawn.
2) If the issue is ensuring easy starting and quicker engine warm up, 15 degrees F simply does not register in terms of concern. Here in WI, we will typically plug in the engine block heater of my wife's Subaru if we expect single digit temps during the night. Probably not necessary from an oil flow perspective (using M1 5W30), but it does help get the block up to temperature faster, which matters for short trips (less time in enrichment mode). We use a timer and have it set for 2 hrs before typical leaving for work time.
3) I found a block heater that attaches to the oil pan via a magnet to my '95 pickup. It's not high wattage, but I've found that when it's really cold, it does take the edge off the oil temperature a bit. Again, I use a simple timer and have it set two hours in advance. I'm currently using M1, so oil flow isn't the real issue.
4) Using a remote start system to fire up the vehicle before leaving is certainly an option. But it's a pretty expensive fix to a "problem." You are running in enrichment mode at idle, the point at which the engine makes the least amount of heat. Getting the engine under load generates heat much faster, and you spend less time in enrichment mode.
But you know what? It probably doesn't really matter what way you go. Seat heaters are my favorite.
MadCityRich
1) If the issue is just having a comfortable cabin at 15 degrees F, then I suggest installing seat heaters or invest in a pair of long underwear. Seat heaters are a wonderful thing and provide nearly instant heat to the most sensitive parts of your body. No stress on the vehicle, other than a few more amps being drawn.
2) If the issue is ensuring easy starting and quicker engine warm up, 15 degrees F simply does not register in terms of concern. Here in WI, we will typically plug in the engine block heater of my wife's Subaru if we expect single digit temps during the night. Probably not necessary from an oil flow perspective (using M1 5W30), but it does help get the block up to temperature faster, which matters for short trips (less time in enrichment mode). We use a timer and have it set for 2 hrs before typical leaving for work time.
3) I found a block heater that attaches to the oil pan via a magnet to my '95 pickup. It's not high wattage, but I've found that when it's really cold, it does take the edge off the oil temperature a bit. Again, I use a simple timer and have it set two hours in advance. I'm currently using M1, so oil flow isn't the real issue.
4) Using a remote start system to fire up the vehicle before leaving is certainly an option. But it's a pretty expensive fix to a "problem." You are running in enrichment mode at idle, the point at which the engine makes the least amount of heat. Getting the engine under load generates heat much faster, and you spend less time in enrichment mode.
But you know what? It probably doesn't really matter what way you go. Seat heaters are my favorite.
MadCityRich
10-12-2006, 07:02 AM
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Living in Calgary, I do make sure that my truck is plugged in (the whole night) when temperature is below -10C. Don't like running engine with frozen oil. the oil doesn't freeze at -10C, but it sure gets a bit too stiff. I'm sure that installing and using a blockheater will give you a better mileage before a rebuild.
10-12-2006, 04:48 PM
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Has anyone ever use one of those heaters that goes into the radiator hoses? Are they worth installing, or would I be better going with an actaullly block heater. I don't think it gets cold enough in my area to really justify one, but I like the idea of having almost instant heat when it's 15 degrees...
I also have an oil pan heater pad, tranny pad, battery blanket, and finally a small pad heter on the rear diff. These are not vitally important to most people, but in Fairbanks, Alaska you would not get you vehicle started and rolling some mornings with out them.
Someone mentioned the webestos heaters. good. but the best by far is the espar heaters ( www.espar.com ). a hydronic B5 would ROCK, I just am not ready to part with the cash.
Last edited by AlaskaToy; 10-12-2006 at 04:50 PM.
10-12-2006, 04:56 PM
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for electric, plug-in heaters, the percolator style like you described is best when properly installed. The entire block will be warm and snow will not collect on your hood overnight during even the heaviest snowfall. second place is the freeze plug style block heater. They do best on an inline engine IMO. I have one on the 3vze and it really only warms the one corner of the block.
I also have an oil pan heater pad, tranny pad, battery blanket, and finally a small pad heter on the rear diff. These are not vitally important to most people, but in Fairbanks, Alaska you would not get you vehicle started and rolling some mornings with out them.
Someone mentioned the webestos heaters. good. but the best by far is the espar heaters ( www.espar.com ). a hydronic B5 would ROCK, I just am not ready to part with the cash.
I also have an oil pan heater pad, tranny pad, battery blanket, and finally a small pad heter on the rear diff. These are not vitally important to most people, but in Fairbanks, Alaska you would not get you vehicle started and rolling some mornings with out them.
Someone mentioned the webestos heaters. good. but the best by far is the espar heaters ( www.espar.com ). a hydronic B5 would ROCK, I just am not ready to part with the cash.
