After a balance, what would be considered alot of added weight on a wheel?

LSUMatt1514 · 01-12-2005, 03:16 PM

I've got the other thread going about my warped rotors and vibration issues over 60+ miles per hour. I just checked the tires to see how much weight Limbaugh Toyota added to balance them. The front driver's side tire has 60g on it (2-30g weights) and the front passenger has 65g on it (1-30g and 1-35g). The two rears have only one weight each, but I can't make out how much they weigh. Both look to be smaller than either on the front. What's the deal? Is this an insanely large amount of weight on these front two or is it normal?

Matt

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LSUMatt1514 · 01-12-2005, 03:17 PM

Make the vibration go away please!!!!!!!! I'm tired of wasting my time on this issue, but I'm afraid I'm going to end up back at Limbaugh Toyota bright and early Saturday morning and have them balance them over and over again until they get it right and after each time they do it, go test drive it on the interstate. Help!!!!!

Matt

86toyota · 01-12-2005, 03:28 PM

Where's tire boy when you need him....jimabena

You could switch the rear tires to the front, but those weights sound normal to me. I've had more weights on my swampers than that.

**4x4Fink** · 01-12-2005, 03:36 PM

Yeah, I'm used to having a bunch of weight on my mudders so I couldn't tell you if its a lot or not...wait for others to reply I guess.

Fink

CBIguy · 01-12-2005, 04:10 PM

that sounds very reasonable to me, 60 grams is only a little over 2 ounces, I have over 18oz on one of my 33" swampers, that's bad!!!! It is common practice however to put the tires that balance the best on the front, you might rotate and see??? You can also rotate the tire on the wheel to try to get it to balance better.

I've never seen wheel weights measured in grams in the U.S.??

Ironmike4x4 · 01-12-2005, 05:18 PM

I have no freaking idea. I'm a mechanic and have access to a wheel balancer, my 4Runner has a horrilbe vibration in it at 60+ miles per hour and I've balanced them several times. Everytime I balance it, its never true after so many miles on them. I've tried rotating them to even treadwear, different tire pressure, etc. I've even done my own alignment just to satisfy my mind and everything is dead on. If you find out then please let me know.

86toyota · 01-12-2005, 05:26 PM

Do you torque your wheels down or use an impact wrench? There was a big thread about using a torque wrench to aleviate that problem. Also heard certain tires always vibrate. Just trying to help.

Ironmike4x4 · 01-12-2005, 05:30 PM

I have a torque stick and use the correct torque setting on my impact.

jacksonpt · 01-12-2005, 05:33 PM

Your weights sound reasonable... the heavier the tire is, the more weight it's going to take to balance it. But also check the insie of the wheel - in cases where I need a ton of weight (3+ weights per wheel), my dealer will put 2 on one side and 2 on the other.

Is this the first time the tires have been balanced and you've seen vibration? How many miles do you have on the tires? What kind of tires are they (brand, model, size)? Some people have had issues with tires not even being round, so balancing doesn't do much. Have the dealer balance them, then give you the road force numbers. Anything over 16 (I think it's 16, perhaps it's 18) is generally considered unacceptable/defective for a typical road tire. Now, swampers probably don't apply because they are so heavy - I'm not sure about other MTs... but it might be something for you to look into.

LSUMatt1514 · 01-12-2005, 06:31 PM

Jackson,
When I first got a new set of tires about 4 months ago, I bought 265/75/16 Dueler Revo A/Ts and they vibrated like crazy. I returned them and got a set of 265/75/16 Michelin Cross Terrains. The vibration issue really didn't start until I put the Revos on, and now it won't go away. The highest road force number that I've got on the Michelins is a 14 and that is very acceptable. Unacceptable is anything above 30 from what I've heard. These Michelins have less than 1000 miles on them and are supposed to be the top of the line. That's why I chunked the Revos because I orginally thought that they were what was causing the vibration. Guess not. The road force balancer would have found any wheel that was not true and/or damaged and would have found an out of round tire and neither place (A&R or Limbaugh) have said anything about one of the tires being out of round. I don't know what the answer is, but from all the research that I've done on Yotatech, this sounds like a very common problem, some more easily solved than others.

Matt

LSUMatt1514 · 01-12-2005, 06:32 PM

BTW, the steering wheel doesn't shake nearly as much at 60+ miles per hour as it did before I had the rotors replaced yesterday, but the vibration can still be felt in the seat and can be seen by looking over at the passenger seat or the driver's side sun visor.

Matt

Brendan · 01-12-2005, 07:01 PM

perhaps the driveshaft requires balancing, but if it started as soon as the tires were replaced, i would suspect something else. bent wheel(s) maybe? have someone drive beside you and watch your wheels spin as you drive.

Roadtripr · 01-12-2005, 07:11 PM

man you have had a crappy time with the whole new tire issue.
You are sure it is not an axel or driveshaft issue?
keep us updated

stevrock · 01-12-2005, 07:22 PM

How's about an alignment?

LSUMatt1514 · 01-12-2005, 07:32 PM

The alignment is fine. It may be ever so slightly off, but definitely not bad. I'll probably try to get that done this weekend as well, but I know that's not what's causing it.

Matt

bamachem · 01-12-2005, 08:28 PM

Did you ever check your steering rack like I suggested? Something is snafu w/ the steering, ball joints, alignment, or possibly (but not likely) the driveshaft.

jacksonpt · 01-13-2005, 04:57 AM

Yea... my second thought was also play in the steering - perhaps tie rods?

bamachem · 01-13-2005, 05:03 AM

that's EXACTLY what I told him about a month ago, but the dealer can't find anything wrong.

jacksonpt · 01-13-2005, 05:08 AM

I assume it's a competent dealer? I had one dealer tell me they couldn't do an alignment because there was too much play in my tie rod ends and they needed to be replaced. Took it to another dealer (my trusted dealer) and they said that the other guy had no idea what he was talking about... that they tie rods were in perfect shape, and an alignment wouldn't be a problem.

Idiots...

LSUMatt1514 · 01-13-2005, 05:58 AM

How would a problem with the steering translate into a vibration issue at highway speeds?

Matt

bamachem · 01-13-2005, 06:01 AM

loose steering or ball joints will allow a wheel to oscillate left to right as it travels down the road, resulting in vibration.

Bumpin' Yota · 01-13-2005, 07:33 AM

might also check for a bent rim....

Sam's wholesale had done that now to 3 of my rims when breaking the beads off of the old tires. I'm going to get new rims on my own dime one more time (I get em for cheap.) If they screw 'em up the isht is hitting the fan from here on out!

They also have done that to 2 of our dually's BIG steel wheels...

TacomaTRD · 01-13-2005, 07:46 AM

did they use the adapter to balance them? on the stock al rims the center is not machined to match the wheel. Therefore you must use a adapter that centers the wheel using the lug holes...

ugadawg95 · 01-13-2005, 07:53 AM

Do you have anyone there in AL that will swap tires/wheels with you to see if the problem goes away when swapped? I would be happy to do that if you are ever in the Athens, GA area. It sounds like a bent wheel to me.

MTL_4runner · 01-13-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ugadawg95

Do you have anyone there in AL that will swap tires/wheels with you to see if the problem goes away when swapped? I would be happy to do that if you are ever in the Athens, GA area. It sounds like a bent wheel to me.

I agree totally....you need to find someone with no vibration that will swap wheels. This will eliminate the guesswork as far as it either being in the rim/tire or somewhere else. After chucking the Revos and finding the same problem with the michelins, I think it is time to take a different approach to solving your problem.

bamachem also had a good point to look for the steering components as a possible cause.....you can do this yourself with the help of an assistant. Just have the person sit in the truck and move the wheel side to side while you are underneath watching the steering rack and tie rods. You can also put your hand on the inner tie rod boots to feel if there is play in them. Last you need to look at the steering rack as a whole moving (there is often play in the bushings) where you may have excessive play in the rack itself. Ball joints usually make a clunk sound when bad but you can jack each wheel up and move the tire in and out and watch for any movement there as well.

First just find someone else with a set of wheels that fit yours and do a temporary swap.

01-12-2005, 03:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
LSUMatt1514 Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 1,278	Make the vibration go away please!!!!!!!! I'm tired of wasting my time on this issue, but I'm afraid I'm going to end up back at Limbaugh Toyota bright and early Saturday morning and have them balance them over and over again until they get it right and after each time they do it, go test drive it on the interstate. Help!!!!! Matt __________________ 01' SR5 Sport Edition Performance: Deck Plate w/ Amsoil Filter, ISR Mod, Dynomax Super Turbo w/ Pacesetter Tip Exterior: Manik Brush Guard, Piaa 1000X, Piaa 540, OEM Skid Plate, Custom Sidemarkers, Clear Corners/Bumpers, H/L Alenzas, Thule Lappland Cargo Basket, Reverse Lamps, Silverstars Interior: Stereo System, Dakota Digital Gauges, Coleman Inverter, Speedhut Gauges http://community.webshots.com/user/phi1514

01-12-2005, 03:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
86toyota Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Trafford, Pa Posts: 1,158	Where's tire boy when you need him....jimabena You could switch the rear tires to the front, but those weights sound normal to me. I've had more weights on my swampers than that. __________________ Gregg 86 yota extra cab, 4" Pro comp, 33's, cam, header,CF Dual friction, K&N, and so on... (SOLD) 89 toyota 4x4 flatbed MY TRUCK

01-12-2005, 03:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
4x4Fink Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Centerton, AR Posts: 5,952	Yeah, I'm used to having a bunch of weight on my mudders so I couldn't tell you if its a lot or not...wait for others to reply I guess. Fink __________________ 1985 4Runner 22RE 4WD "Ratchet" 2007 Tacoma Double Cab SB 4x4 V6 TRD Sport AR-TTORA "My work number is 9-1-1."

01-12-2005, 05:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
86toyota Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Trafford, Pa Posts: 1,158	Do you torque your wheels down or use an impact wrench? There was a big thread about using a torque wrench to aleviate that problem. Also heard certain tires always vibrate. Just trying to help. __________________ Gregg 86 yota extra cab, 4" Pro comp, 33's, cam, header,CF Dual friction, K&N, and so on... (SOLD) 89 toyota 4x4 flatbed MY TRUCK

01-12-2005, 05:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
jacksonpt Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 2,753	Your weights sound reasonable... the heavier the tire is, the more weight it's going to take to balance it. But also check the insie of the wheel - in cases where I need a ton of weight (3+ weights per wheel), my dealer will put 2 on one side and 2 on the other. Is this the first time the tires have been balanced and you've seen vibration? How many miles do you have on the tires? What kind of tires are they (brand, model, size)? Some people have had issues with tires not even being round, so balancing doesn't do much. Have the dealer balance them, then give you the road force numbers. Anything over 16 (I think it's 16, perhaps it's 18) is generally considered unacceptable/defective for a typical road tire. Now, swampers probably don't apply because they are so heavy - I'm not sure about other MTs... but it might be something for you to look into. __________________ Jackson - My Site 96 SR5 4x4 - 33" MTs, open diffs, and 3.90s - LET'S ROCK! My runner has bee traded in sniff on an 06 SR5 long bed d-cab Tacoma. The tacoma is nice, but... sniff ... I'll update my site when I'm done grieving.

01-12-2005, 04:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
CBIguy Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Idaho Posts: 53	that sounds very reasonable to me, 60 grams is only a little over 2 ounces, I have over 18oz on one of my 33" swampers, that's bad!!!! It is common practice however to put the tires that balance the best on the front, you might rotate and see??? You can also rotate the tire on the wheel to try to get it to balance better. I've never seen wheel weights measured in grams in the U.S.??

01-12-2005, 06:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
LSUMatt1514 Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 1,278	Jackson, When I first got a new set of tires about 4 months ago, I bought 265/75/16 Dueler Revo A/Ts and they vibrated like crazy. I returned them and got a set of 265/75/16 Michelin Cross Terrains. The vibration issue really didn't start until I put the Revos on, and now it won't go away. The highest road force number that I've got on the Michelins is a 14 and that is very acceptable. Unacceptable is anything above 30 from what I've heard. These Michelins have less than 1000 miles on them and are supposed to be the top of the line. That's why I chunked the Revos because I orginally thought that they were what was causing the vibration. Guess not. The road force balancer would have found any wheel that was not true and/or damaged and would have found an out of round tire and neither place (A&R or Limbaugh) have said anything about one of the tires being out of round. I don't know what the answer is, but from all the research that I've done on Yotatech, this sounds like a very common problem, some more easily solved than others. Matt __________________ 01' SR5 Sport Edition Performance: Deck Plate w/ Amsoil Filter, ISR Mod, Dynomax Super Turbo w/ Pacesetter Tip Exterior: Manik Brush Guard, Piaa 1000X, Piaa 540, OEM Skid Plate, Custom Sidemarkers, Clear Corners/Bumpers, H/L Alenzas, Thule Lappland Cargo Basket, Reverse Lamps, Silverstars Interior: Stereo System, Dakota Digital Gauges, Coleman Inverter, Speedhut Gauges http://community.webshots.com/user/phi1514

01-12-2005, 06:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
LSUMatt1514 Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 1,278	BTW, the steering wheel doesn't shake nearly as much at 60+ miles per hour as it did before I had the rotors replaced yesterday, but the vibration can still be felt in the seat and can be seen by looking over at the passenger seat or the driver's side sun visor. Matt __________________ 01' SR5 Sport Edition Performance: Deck Plate w/ Amsoil Filter, ISR Mod, Dynomax Super Turbo w/ Pacesetter Tip Exterior: Manik Brush Guard, Piaa 1000X, Piaa 540, OEM Skid Plate, Custom Sidemarkers, Clear Corners/Bumpers, H/L Alenzas, Thule Lappland Cargo Basket, Reverse Lamps, Silverstars Interior: Stereo System, Dakota Digital Gauges, Coleman Inverter, Speedhut Gauges http://community.webshots.com/user/phi1514

01-12-2005, 07:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
Brendan Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 2,117	perhaps the driveshaft requires balancing, but if it started as soon as the tires were replaced, i would suspect something else. bent wheel(s) maybe? have someone drive beside you and watch your wheels spin as you drive. __________________ 1992 "Truck" 1978 Land Cruiser FJ40 pig and elephant DNA just won't splice :( *DO NOT CLICK HERE*

01-12-2005, 07:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
Roadtripr Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 927	man you have had a crappy time with the whole new tire issue. You are sure it is not an axel or driveshaft issue? keep us updated __________________ Carsten -------------------------- 99 4runner SR5 4x4 5spd

01-12-2005, 07:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
LSUMatt1514 Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 1,278	The alignment is fine. It may be ever so slightly off, but definitely not bad. I'll probably try to get that done this weekend as well, but I know that's not what's causing it. Matt __________________ 01' SR5 Sport Edition Performance: Deck Plate w/ Amsoil Filter, ISR Mod, Dynomax Super Turbo w/ Pacesetter Tip Exterior: Manik Brush Guard, Piaa 1000X, Piaa 540, OEM Skid Plate, Custom Sidemarkers, Clear Corners/Bumpers, H/L Alenzas, Thule Lappland Cargo Basket, Reverse Lamps, Silverstars Interior: Stereo System, Dakota Digital Gauges, Coleman Inverter, Speedhut Gauges http://community.webshots.com/user/phi1514

01-12-2005, 08:28 PM	#16 (permalink)
bamachem Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 0	Did you ever check your steering rack like I suggested? Something is snafu w/ the steering, ball joints, alignment, or possibly (but not likely) the driveshaft.

01-13-2005, 04:57 AM	#17 (permalink)
jacksonpt Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 2,753	Yea... my second thought was also play in the steering - perhaps tie rods? __________________ Jackson - My Site 96 SR5 4x4 - 33" MTs, open diffs, and 3.90s - LET'S ROCK! My runner has bee traded in sniff on an 06 SR5 long bed d-cab Tacoma. The tacoma is nice, but... sniff ... I'll update my site when I'm done grieving.

01-13-2005, 05:03 AM	#18 (permalink)
bamachem Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 0	that's EXACTLY what I told him about a month ago, but the dealer can't find anything wrong.

01-13-2005, 05:08 AM	#19 (permalink)
jacksonpt Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 2,753	I assume it's a competent dealer? I had one dealer tell me they couldn't do an alignment because there was too much play in my tie rod ends and they needed to be replaced. Took it to another dealer (my trusted dealer) and they said that the other guy had no idea what he was talking about... that they tie rods were in perfect shape, and an alignment wouldn't be a problem. Idiots... __________________ Jackson - My Site 96 SR5 4x4 - 33" MTs, open diffs, and 3.90s - LET'S ROCK! My runner has bee traded in sniff on an 06 SR5 long bed d-cab Tacoma. The tacoma is nice, but... sniff ... I'll update my site when I'm done grieving.

01-13-2005, 05:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
LSUMatt1514 Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 1,278	How would a problem with the steering translate into a vibration issue at highway speeds? Matt __________________ 01' SR5 Sport Edition Performance: Deck Plate w/ Amsoil Filter, ISR Mod, Dynomax Super Turbo w/ Pacesetter Tip Exterior: Manik Brush Guard, Piaa 1000X, Piaa 540, OEM Skid Plate, Custom Sidemarkers, Clear Corners/Bumpers, H/L Alenzas, Thule Lappland Cargo Basket, Reverse Lamps, Silverstars Interior: Stereo System, Dakota Digital Gauges, Coleman Inverter, Speedhut Gauges http://community.webshots.com/user/phi1514

01-13-2005, 06:01 AM	#21 (permalink)
bamachem Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 0	loose steering or ball joints will allow a wheel to oscillate left to right as it travels down the road, resulting in vibration.

01-13-2005, 07:33 AM	#22 (permalink)
Bumpin' Yota Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 3,639	might also check for a bent rim.... Sam's wholesale had done that now to 3 of my rims when breaking the beads off of the old tires. I'm going to get new rims on my own dime one more time (I get em for cheap.) If they screw 'em up the isht is hitting the fan from here on out! They also have done that to 2 of our dually's BIG steel wheels... __________________ 3vze, 4x4, sr5, 90, auto, LSD 2x dB Drag World Finalist 2003 Nopi Nat. Street B champ 2004 SBN Street C champ 2004 SBN Advncd NW Champ 2004 Former WR Holder in NW. SPL: 159.8db @ 42hz In loving memory of Jamie Riggs 5/15/85 - 10/8/04

01-13-2005, 07:46 AM	#23 (permalink)
TacomaTRD Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NH Posts: 221	did they use the adapter to balance them? on the stock al rims the center is not machined to match the wheel. Therefore you must use a adapter that centers the wheel using the lug holes... __________________ 98 Taco TRD, 98 Taco 2.7ltr

01-13-2005, 07:53 AM	#24 (permalink)
ugadawg95 Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bethlehem, GA Posts: 1,072	Do you have anyone there in AL that will swap tires/wheels with you to see if the problem goes away when swapped? I would be happy to do that if you are ever in the Athens, GA area. It sounds like a bent wheel to me. __________________ Stephen SOLD! 99 4Runner Limited, Jade Mica. 08 4Runner Urban Runner Edition 4wd. Blizzard Pearl White...Let the mods begin!

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