Dan_90SR5

I've searched and search for the answer to this and can't seem to find the answer. Maybe I'm not using good key words, who knows.

I have lifted my 4Runner using Cruiser coils which I guess the general consensus is that they will lift the 4Runner about 3". I know that alot of people have talked about the rear axle moving forward becuae of lifts this high. I have had the same problem. Now, I'm in the prcess of doing something about it.

I'm lengthing my trailing armsback to where they would sit in stock form. I know some will say that this is going to cause issue when the tires are stuffed......so be it. I've heard the stories about whels coming off the ground during tight street turns and that just isn't acceptable to me since my 4Runner is dual purpose.

Now on to the problem. I know the basis of how a 4 link (5 link as some will call it) but I'm alittle unsure about the it on the 4Runner because of the stock links mounting locations and how the upper ones triangulate slightly.

Basically what I want to know is when I lengthen them, do they need to be lengthened evenly? For example, 1" longer on the upper links and 1" longer on the lower links? Or as a percentage, which if you lengthened the upper by 1", you have to lengthen the lower one by about 1 9/16". These are based off ot the stock measurements from center to center on the holes. Upper being 11 3/4" stick and the lower being 18 1/4" stock.

Am I way off base on both ideas? Or does anyone here even have a clue?

I've already made the upper links with heim joints because of issues that I've heard about the bushings no giving enough and causing the brackets to be ripped right off the axle. I thought it was hard to believe, but I go by what I read here........you guys do alot more wheeling than I have so far.

Thanks for any help in advance........just please don't tell me to look on Pirate......I'm not real fond of that forum.

Cebby

Here ya go Dan. All Pro makes them for our rigs. You could make your own, but this will give you an idea on length. I think they say the lower links are 1" longer and the upper links are adjustable from 0-1" longer.

http://www.allprooffroad.com/suspension_coilsprings.htm

Flygtenstein

I doubt you have front rubbing issues worth worrying about. It really only matters at compression.

Don't mess too much with link length. You are dealing with short links made to operate in a limited lift range. Much variation will screw it.

I have Spidertrax links. Lowers are .5" longer than stock, uppers are adjustable from stock to stock plus 1.5"

All hardware is 5/8's.

If you get heims, get heim diapers.

Pirate will tell all you need to know about links. Learn it and like it.

Dan_90SR5

It's funny that the two guys that I was thinking about when I wrote my post were the first to answer. Thanks guys.

I lengthened the upper ones 1"....non adjustable. I'm going to make the lower ones 3/4" to give it a slight angle for the driveshaft.

I don't really have issues, but would rather keep it that way.

BTW, I'm lifting the gas tank too. And yes there is alot involved in doing so. It is a totally custom job and do not recommend that anyone else follow suit unless you know exactly what you're doing.

Just thought I'd let you guys know. The rear tank is probably alot better idea given the work that I'm having to do to get 2" more of clearance.

Flygtenstein

I think you driveshaft angles are going to be whacked.

I do not think messing with the rear tank is worth it. How are you going to put the passenger One kit is on the market basically tailor made for this issue with another soon to follow.

My tanks is covered and couple probably survive nuclear attack, sure it hits, but I don't worry about it.

Why make the rear of a heavy rig heavier?

Dan_90SR5

Thanks, I appreciate all of the input and concern about the rear links and driveshaft angles. I think what I'll do is install the upper links with the panhard, set the weight down on it slightly and try to figure out the best length for the bottom ones. Or maybe just make them the same as the top.

As for the gas tank, I was just saying that if someone wanted to solve the clearance issues with the gas tank as far as the drive shaft (which I think has more to do with the panhard than anything) and ground.......they might want to look into what Cebby had talked about and that was moving it to the rear.

But since we're on it, I'll tell you what I am doing. I'm lifting my gas tank up 2" since I have a 2" BL. Impossible, no, but it does require alot of work. I had to clip a small section out of the tank........which amounts to about 1/4-1/3gal. Welded that up.....need to coat the inside of the tank again now. The rear mounting bracket had 2" cut out of it and rewelded into place and reenforced. The front mounting bracket had to be cut out and a new one put in 2" higher. Then the skid plate will have 2" cut out of it....welded back up and reenforced.

Alot of work for 2"? Yes, of course. Would I recommend anyone else do this.......hell no. I more or less did it because it was said that it couldn't be done. I just thought I'd explain.

I'm an engineer......I like to fabricate that's more or less the reason for all of this. I can say that I'll have a pretty unique 4Runner when I'm done. Maybe not things that will be just awesome, but they will suit me. I look at it this way. I've fabricated all the parts on the rear of my 4Runner that some company is selling for over $600. I've made a panhard lift bracket for a friend on this board that's better than the one that they sell for over $100.

Maybe some of the people here will see that these parts can be made by us for alot cheaper. Like Roger Browns BL......or the BJ spacers........those all started here with real people with real experience. I hope we can keep those ideas going.

yotafreakshow

Let's hear it for home fabrication! I fully support making your own stuff. Lots of people don't have the proper tools/knowledge/skill to fab suspension parts, ect...big safety issue. But for those that can, I say do it up! :rockin

Plus, it's fun to chop and weld, and then test your creation out! Makes you feel good about your accomplishment, and saving some cash too.

RobG

Dan,

I did the Cruiser Coils back in July and like you I was concerned about the rear link lengths. I was considering the All-Pro longer links but figured I would try it first with the stock links and see what I needed.

Attached is a picture of the rear in compression from our first trail run. Not sure if you can see it but the tire makes contact at the rear of the well hitting the bumper/mud flap while the front still has clearance. It looks like the rear bumper has to go.

My passenger upper arm hits the tank, but as advised by other people here I don’t really worry about it. Not sure why you would lift a wheel on the street but so far I am very satisfied with the performance on road and off.

Not sure if that helps you. I have some more pictures of rear articulation if they are of use.

I am wondering what people are doing for the rear sway bar links? I originally lengthened them a few inches but that caused problems so I am back to stock.

Dan_90SR5

Thanks for the picture. I know by doing this, it's going to cause problems at full stuff. I think that since I already have the upper links done, I'm just going to roll with it. You're really damned if you do and damned if you don't as for as those links go.

I was looking at the sway bar being a slight problem too, but thought I'd see how it goes when I'm done with the links. I had thought about lengthen the links like you said, but guess that's a bad idea. I thought that another idea would be to make some spacersto mount where it connects to the axle. Is the sway bar in the way all the time or just when you're off road?

RobG

Only Off Road.

Both Stock length and extended were okay until getting stuffed off road. Extended was hit by the lower link and bent. Stock length seems to work fine on the road. I am going to quick disconnects for off road, which should solve the problem.

By the way those are 33x12.5’s that barely fit in the wheel wells if that matters.

Dan_90SR5

Bump...

Adrian, I've been looking on Piarate for those diapers all night. I've searched for "heim", "heim joint" and "diaper".....you wouldn't believe what all I found. Do you know the discussion or an clues that would help me find these?

Dan_90SR5

Actually, I think I just found what you're talking about. Are these what you mean?

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/produc...No=1&redirect=

Cebby

That's what I thought he meant Dan. Those are the only protective pieces I've come across for heims.

Flygtenstein

Yeah, the one's from Schaefer's page. He and Jeff have the link stuff pretty well figured out.

I would measure first and not just say an inch here means an inch there.

I have not problem's stuffing 33's with basically stock length links and no serious fender modification.

1/4" wall on the lowers is a solid starting point.

Dan_90SR5

Ok, not to keep bothering you, but I got more curious when you mentioned someone page (Schaefer). Do you have a link because I searched the members on here and on Pirate and can't find a Schaefer.

Cebby

Here's a direct link to the page Adrian's referring to.

http://fastq.com/~sschaefer/spidertrax.html

Scroll down toward the end of the page.

Steve's main page:

http://fastq.com/~sschaefer

Dan_90SR5

I had thought about running my lower links that exact same way. I've heard alot of horror stories about heims though so I thought I'd run as few as possible for now. The upper ones I thought that there was no way around itt after hearing about the brackets being ripped off the axles. I however don't forsee me doing wheeling that would cause that on my 4Runner, but I'm going with the rather safe than sorry theory on my build up. I slapped my lift on my 4Runner and just looked at it and was a bit unhappy with it. One reason is because the upper link bent on the gas tank.....yes, it bent. That's when I thought that I need to make this better.

Now here we are talking about all of my craziness. All of my gas tank chopping and lifting. My heim joints and links. I appreciate all the help with everything even though I think Adrian gets annoyed with my ways alot. To each his own though......he still helps me even if he does think I'm crazy, lol.

Thanks guys!!!

Flygtenstein

I am a just the facts man.

What wall thickness were your uppers?

I have 6 heims out of 8 possible ends. The other two are RE Flex joints. No real testing on them yet, but they ought to work. Everything wears with time and I think using bushings again will be foolish.

Cebby

Adrian -

Do you think there would be any benefit to moving the front points on the lower links forward?

Would this cause the upper links to tear off of the housing?

anthony1

iTrader: (1)

Hey Dan,
I have the All Pro links ( upper and lower ) Yes, the links bend gas tank lip. Yes, the d-shaft hit the gas tank. I solved that problem by moving it to the rear mounting it horizontally between the frame. Both problems solved.
Infact, without the tank being there, you can propbably redesign the links and the brackets on the axle to except longer lower links and triagulate the upper links so you can eliminate the pan hard rod all together.
Another idea is to keep the tank where it is and switch the pan hard rod mount so it swings the other way ) this is a lot of work though ).
Maybe you can also put a bent in the upper link so it doesn't come in contact with the gas tank lip.


so far I'm pretty happy with the gas tank move.