nomochevys

hello, my parents are trying buy a 03 4x4 limited v-8 4 runner. i am curious as to how much over invoice folks are having to
pay? so far they have shopped 2 dealers and did their homework
on the truck they want and in both cases the dealers disputed
the invoice price of the vehicle. one claimed it did not include
the toyota advertising fee! the other said freight was not included. in both cases i felt like the dealers were grasping and
trying to confuse a couple of retired folks. it just pisses me off
to no end what those guys will do. the good news is that they
stuck to their guns.

thank you for any help.

by the way, they have a 02 4-runner for sale. it has 19k miles
and is a limited 4x4. silver in color and in excellent condition.
they are asking 27,500. we live in kentucky. this truck has never
been off road or abused in any way.

The Silent Man

Check out www.carsdirect.com I'm not sure about the Limiteds, but Sport models are going for ~$900 over invoice!

JGage

That's generally true... Not so true about the freight, but ti depends on what guide you use to get the invoce price.

I paid $125 over invoice for my '03 Limited.

richeyma

It also depends on what part of the country you're in when negotiating a price. Some places the dealerships can't keep them on the lot. Other places they aren't selling as well. If the dealer can't keep them on the lot, they're going to sell them for as much as they can get--that's the American way.

To get a better feel for prices, in addition to carsdirect, you should go elsewhere like edmunds.com or kbb.com. For some reason, not all places have the same prices, but you can at least get a good estimate.

If the dealership is not willing to negotiate a price (and you don't HAVE to have the vehicle), just walk out! If they really want the sale, they'll call you. When I bought my 4runner, (it was a dealer demo with 6K on it) the dealership wanted 24,800. I told them that was too much, so after about an hour of deliberating, they came down to 24,000. Frustrated, I walked out of the dealership. About three weeks later they called me back...I ended up getting it for 20,400.

JGage

BTW, this is a great site:
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/

I used it and I think it paid off. It has a neat speadsheet, I used. I dealt w/ the dealer over the internet via e-mail. Their offer was like $300 lower that my lowest offer, then I got them to knock $400 off that. They were/are not selling well here, so.

Good Times

Listen to JGage!!!

That site is a definite MUST READ if you're planning to buy a car!!!

also just go to either kbb.com or edmunds.com to see what the prices are and it'll even give u the current price it's usually going for. not the most precise price but it'll give u a heads up!

03's are going for prob a smudge over invoice... 500 or less i'd say? not sure about the limited tho but for the sr5's i know it's going for around 150 ish (last heard) prob cuz of the cladding...

JGage

I would also take advantage of the Toyota or the dealers on-line quote via e-mail. You just look at the dealer's stock (or what is coming in) and e-mail them for a quote. It's low/no pressure, they have to idea who you are (ie: they are not seeting the $5k Tag on your wrist or the $25 Casio,) they know you have been searching the internet, you can get quotes from dealer hundreds of miles away w/o having to spend time driving there. They usually have an Internet sales person who knows the score.

nomochevys

thanks to all very much for the advice. i really appreciate it.
i have been to 4 sites and come up with the exact same
invoice price and msrp. i got a call today from a guy at
cars direct. com and he gave me their price. it was the
full msrp!!!!!!! i about fell over. he said that because it was
a "limited" he could not do any better. i explained that a limited
only included more horns buttons and whistles and he told me
that he would double check it and give me a call friday. i also
told him i was referred by some folks on a 4-runner forum that
had used their service.

what is confusing here is that i have the exact same msrp and
invoice price from 4 sites and the 2 dealers visited disputed
this. has anyone else run into this? kbb, edmunds, carprices.com
and car price zone. they cant all be wrong can they? i think this
is just another futile attempt to gouge the buyer who is informed
that the dealer wants to confuse and un-inform. did i mention
i hate sales people?

anyway, the quest will continue with patience. thanks to all
again for posting to this question. i will check out the web sites
everyone posted.

Eric

Chris in Boise

From what I read on Edmunds.com, the advertising fee is legitimate.

Edmunds.com says a rule of thumb is that anything that appears on the dealer's invoice is a legitimate charge. Maybe you can get the dealer to fax you a copy of the invoice so that you can see for yourself.

Here is the page in the article that talks about it.

Good Times

If you're planning to buy a 4runner....

Just make sure you're payin invoice price (which can be found on kbb or edmunds) + destination (which i believe is 450 or 500 or something) + "their profit" (150 - 500 ish is what i've seen them go for).

If you're payin anything else, then you're gettin ripped!!! I've seen prices as low as 150 over invoice (which includes destination) and nothing else.... dang i wish i got for that low but i'm happy w/ what i paid for when it first came out...

gl!

EDGE

What state are you in cause when I was looking for a Limted V8 4Runner in NY/NJ not one dealer out of 6 I looked at offered any less than sticker, I ended up getting it much less than sticker.

Why don't your parents just go back to the dealer they got the 2002 from or drive it a little longer and wait for the mad rush to slow down.

They could always get an FX45

LoCore

When it was all said and done, I ended up paying the invoice price found on Edmunds et.al., plus the following:

Advertising/"Toyota Dealer Association" - $696 (on the dealer invoice)
Dealer Profit - $200

This was for a loaded V8 Sport Edition.

richeyma

The whole "dealer profit" thing is a bunch of bull. The invoice price has a dealer profit percentage included (which is why you sometimes see dealers selling vehicles for under the invoice price). It should be listed as "dealer gouging cost".

I'm not trying to insult anybody for paying it--if you really want a vehicle and it's a hot seller, you're not going to be in a position to negotiate that. I ended up paying over invoice for my wife's Honda Odyssey last year because they couldn't keep the cars on the lot. I had to pay more and had to wait almost a month for delivery :pat: It has actually turned out to be a good negotiating point with my wife for getting more mods on my 4runner!

LoCore

BTW, "dealer profit" was my words, not the dealers. I paid $3 over invoice, which included a $197 non-negotiable dealer handling fee. Translation: $200 additional dealer profit

richeyma

LoCore,

I wouldn't think the dealer would be dumb enough to put "dealer profit" on the sticker

I think when I bought my 4Runner, it was listed as "market adjustment".

BTW, is that a picture of your vehicle? It's nice!

LoCore

Fortunately, most the dealers in my area gave up on that wonderful phrase awhile back! Only place I see it any more is a Dodge/Chrysler dealer that is known to be espeically, uh, interesting to deal with.

Quote:

BTW, is that a picture of your vehicle? It's nice!

Yup--thanks! It's all dirty now, thanks to some sort of white stuff falling from the sky

The dealers in the Front Range weren't dealing on price on the 4th gens until early January. I couldn't find any references that pointed to dealer incentives that might have caused them to start.

I think there must be something going on with dealer allocations in the Colorado Front Range, as the V6s are becoming very hard to find. I was told that the Denver region (a 6-state area) had decided to only order V8 Sport Editions and Limiteds; the SR5 seems to still be around in both V6 and V8.

In looking at a region ordering invoice, it looks like they are planning on brining in 50% SR5s, 30% Limiteds, and 20% Sport Editions. Not sure if they plan to have different price negotiating room on the different trim levels.

impulsebrklyn

ok screw the dealer i just picked up my 2003 limited v6 yesterday to give you an idea. Sticker price was 37,622 i paid 34,300 and i got 2 different dealers down that low. I live in brooklynm NY by the way. Thanks Chris

richeyma

Chris,

Sounds like you got a sweet deal! Maybe the dealers had to move some off the lot. I think that's how I got mine for $4500 below what the dealer was asking.

LoCore,

I'm definitely showing my age (or at least the age of my 4Runner) because that was back in '91. The last time I shopped for a new 4Runner was in '99, and I don't recall how the dealer markup was phrased. I think I may have to go out this weekend and see what my local dealerships are wanting for a new 4Runner.

I have seen a few around the area, but not as many as I did when the 3rd Gens came out. I'm not sure if people don't like them as much, don't want to buy a new vehicle because of the economy, or because there are so many different suv's on the market that other makes/models are being purchased.

Doublepump

I did lots of research online and went to the local dealer with my carsdirect.com price all worked out. Got an SR5 V8 4x4 with most of the factory options for 4% over invoice. About the same as the carsdirect price. I was/am happy. Took me a long time to get them to go that low. Always feel like you got burned once it is all done.

LoCore

Well done!

FWIW, my V8 Sport Edition was MSRP $35884 / Invoice $32350; I ended up paying $32549.

I think this deal is probably doable at most dealers in the Front Range, so there's probably more room to negotiate.