Automatic transmission problems, need help!
09-09-2003, 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by Ava
By substantial I mean four centimeters (40 mm or approx. 1,5 inches). That much is the difference between the hot and cool markings on the dipstick.
This morning I checked before I left and noticed the level was a little (4-5 mm) below the lowest cool markings. I had some Dextron III (about half a quart) left and put that in. About 10-15 minutes later the car failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop. I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang) and I could drive normally. Less than an hour later, same thing. Always after a stop.
I can't imagine I have too much oil, but if adding has this effect I'm starting to wonder. I think Toyota says it needs 4,5 litres, and that's excactly what was in the sump when I pulled the pan.
A while ago I had the transmission oil changed and arrived home with a dry dipstick, not having noticed any difference. The boy who filled the trans took a very long time to inspect the dipstick, called his superior and I still wound up adding a whole extra quart of DIII.
Ava.
By substantial I mean four centimeters (40 mm or approx. 1,5 inches). That much is the difference between the hot and cool markings on the dipstick.
This morning I checked before I left and noticed the level was a little (4-5 mm) below the lowest cool markings. I had some Dextron III (about half a quart) left and put that in. About 10-15 minutes later the car failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop. I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang) and I could drive normally. Less than an hour later, same thing. Always after a stop.
I can't imagine I have too much oil, but if adding has this effect I'm starting to wonder. I think Toyota says it needs 4,5 litres, and that's excactly what was in the sump when I pulled the pan.
A while ago I had the transmission oil changed and arrived home with a dry dipstick, not having noticed any difference. The boy who filled the trans took a very long time to inspect the dipstick, called his superior and I still wound up adding a whole extra quart of DIII.
Ava.
First, I pulled my dip stick and took some measurements, see if they are close to what you have. Measuring from the very end, I have the following:
First notch is at 4 5/8" ( 117 mm ), Low cold
Second notch is at 5 1/2" ( 139 mm ), High cold
Third notch is at 6 5/8" ( 167 mm ), Low hot
Forth notch is at 7 7/8" (198 mm ), High hot
I then took the following three readings ( Note: I have not made any fluid changes to the transmission since I picked it up from dealer, it has what was in it when built. )
First I checked it cold, before starting engine: it read approx. 3/4" above High hot notch. ( after sitting for over 24 hrs )
Second, I checked it right after starting engine and shifting once through all gear ranges and back to park: it read at Low cold notch.
Third, I checked it after about 45 min. of normal driving: it read just above mid point between Low and High hot notches.
Now, I think the cold, not running reading doesn't mean much, because all transmissions should drain some fluid back down into the sump when they sit for a while and the longer they sit the more will drain back. So I had about a 2 3/4" difference on the stick between the cold running and hot running readings. But, the stick doesn't go straight down into the trans. I can't tell exactly at this point, but it looks to be at roughly a 45 degree angle, maybe even more. This would make the vertical level difference closer to 1 3/4". You mentioned that Toyota says it needs 4.5 liters, I assume this is to refill the sump when the pan is removed. But remember, this is only an estimate. They always recommend using the dip stick readings to bring fluid level to its proper operating level. My A340F only requires 2.1 qts for a refill according to my owners manual. But my transfer case uses gear lube, not ATF which some earlier models did. I don't know which version you have.
You also mentioned that after having it serviced it needed more to be added after you got home. This doesn't surprise me at all, I can't tell you the number of times I have had customers complain that " the guy at the garage just checked it and said it was OK" right after I told them the level was too low. This is usually because the 'guy at the garage' didn't know the right way to check the level in the first place. So I would, just to be sure, make sure the fluid level is at least in between the Low and High hot notches when it is at a normal operating temp to eliminate low fluid as the problem. If anything, I would err on the high side. The transmission should be able to survive a little too much fluid better that too little as long as you don't way over fill. If you bring the level up so high that it makes contact with the spinning components ( clutch packs ) this can whip the fluid up and cause it to foam. And when this happens, the fluid can't be brought to correct pressure levels because the air bubbles in the fluid will compress and expand.
Did all this trouble with the transmission start just after some other major work on the vehicle? Maybe something was disturbed or damaged which is causing this problem.
Also, after re-reading you post again, I would like to clarify something you wrote.
"About 10-15 minutes later the car failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop. I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang) and I could drive normally. Less than an hour later, same thing. Always after a stop.
When you wrote that it "failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop", did you mean you had stopped and shut off the vehicle and when you started it again the problem happened or was it just a stop and go like at a traffic light or stop sign?
And when you wrote " I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang), do you mean that you revved it in gear, and all of a sudden it grabbed with a 'bang' and started to work? Just trying to make some sense of what is going on here.
09-10-2003, 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by TechWrench
OK, I did a little 'on the car' research to day, so lets compare notes.
First, I pulled my dip stick and took some measurements, see if they are close to what you have. Measuring from the very end, I have the following:
First notch is at 4 5/8" ( 117 mm ), Low cold
Second notch is at 5 1/2" ( 139 mm ), High cold
Third notch is at 6 5/8" ( 167 mm ), Low hot
Forth notch is at 7 7/8" (198 mm ), High hot
I then took the following three readings ( Note: I have not made any fluid changes to the transmission since I picked it up from dealer, it has what was in it when built. )
First I checked it cold, before starting engine: it read approx. 3/4" above High hot notch. ( after sitting for over 24 hrs )
Second, I checked it right after starting engine and shifting once through all gear ranges and back to park: it read at Low cold notch.
Third, I checked it after about 45 min. of normal driving: it read just above mid point between Low and High hot notches.
Now, I think the cold, not running reading doesn't mean much, because all transmissions should drain some fluid back down into the sump when they sit for a while and the longer they sit the more will drain back. So I had about a 2 3/4" difference on the stick between the cold running and hot running readings. But, the stick doesn't go straight down into the trans. I can't tell exactly at this point, but it looks to be at roughly a 45 degree angle, maybe even more. This would make the vertical level difference closer to 1 3/4". You mentioned that Toyota says it needs 4.5 liters, I assume this is to refill the sump when the pan is removed. But remember, this is only an estimate. They always recommend using the dip stick readings to bring fluid level to its proper operating level. My A340F only requires 2.1 qts for a refill according to my owners manual. But my transfer case uses gear lube, not ATF which some earlier models did. I don't know which version you have.
You also mentioned that after having it serviced it needed more to be added after you got home. This doesn't surprise me at all, I can't tell you the number of times I have had customers complain that " the guy at the garage just checked it and said it was OK" right after I told them the level was too low. This is usually because the 'guy at the garage' didn't know the right way to check the level in the first place. So I would, just to be sure, make sure the fluid level is at least in between the Low and High hot notches when it is at a normal operating temp to eliminate low fluid as the problem. If anything, I would err on the high side. The transmission should be able to survive a little too much fluid better that too little as long as you don't way over fill. If you bring the level up so high that it makes contact with the spinning components ( clutch packs ) this can whip the fluid up and cause it to foam. And when this happens, the fluid can't be brought to correct pressure levels because the air bubbles in the fluid will compress and expand.
Did all this trouble with the transmission start just after some other major work on the vehicle? Maybe something was disturbed or damaged which is causing this problem.
Also, after re-reading you post again, I would like to clarify something you wrote.
"About 10-15 minutes later the car failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop. I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang) and I could drive normally. Less than an hour later, same thing. Always after a stop.
When you wrote that it "failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop", did you mean you had stopped and shut off the vehicle and when you started it again the problem happened or was it just a stop and go like at a traffic light or stop sign?
And when you wrote " I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang), do you mean that you revved it in gear, and all of a sudden it grabbed with a 'bang' and started to work? Just trying to make some sense of what is going on here.
OK, I did a little 'on the car' research to day, so lets compare notes.
First, I pulled my dip stick and took some measurements, see if they are close to what you have. Measuring from the very end, I have the following:
First notch is at 4 5/8" ( 117 mm ), Low cold
Second notch is at 5 1/2" ( 139 mm ), High cold
Third notch is at 6 5/8" ( 167 mm ), Low hot
Forth notch is at 7 7/8" (198 mm ), High hot
I then took the following three readings ( Note: I have not made any fluid changes to the transmission since I picked it up from dealer, it has what was in it when built. )
First I checked it cold, before starting engine: it read approx. 3/4" above High hot notch. ( after sitting for over 24 hrs )
Second, I checked it right after starting engine and shifting once through all gear ranges and back to park: it read at Low cold notch.
Third, I checked it after about 45 min. of normal driving: it read just above mid point between Low and High hot notches.
Now, I think the cold, not running reading doesn't mean much, because all transmissions should drain some fluid back down into the sump when they sit for a while and the longer they sit the more will drain back. So I had about a 2 3/4" difference on the stick between the cold running and hot running readings. But, the stick doesn't go straight down into the trans. I can't tell exactly at this point, but it looks to be at roughly a 45 degree angle, maybe even more. This would make the vertical level difference closer to 1 3/4". You mentioned that Toyota says it needs 4.5 liters, I assume this is to refill the sump when the pan is removed. But remember, this is only an estimate. They always recommend using the dip stick readings to bring fluid level to its proper operating level. My A340F only requires 2.1 qts for a refill according to my owners manual. But my transfer case uses gear lube, not ATF which some earlier models did. I don't know which version you have.
You also mentioned that after having it serviced it needed more to be added after you got home. This doesn't surprise me at all, I can't tell you the number of times I have had customers complain that " the guy at the garage just checked it and said it was OK" right after I told them the level was too low. This is usually because the 'guy at the garage' didn't know the right way to check the level in the first place. So I would, just to be sure, make sure the fluid level is at least in between the Low and High hot notches when it is at a normal operating temp to eliminate low fluid as the problem. If anything, I would err on the high side. The transmission should be able to survive a little too much fluid better that too little as long as you don't way over fill. If you bring the level up so high that it makes contact with the spinning components ( clutch packs ) this can whip the fluid up and cause it to foam. And when this happens, the fluid can't be brought to correct pressure levels because the air bubbles in the fluid will compress and expand.
Did all this trouble with the transmission start just after some other major work on the vehicle? Maybe something was disturbed or damaged which is causing this problem.
Also, after re-reading you post again, I would like to clarify something you wrote.
"About 10-15 minutes later the car failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop. I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang) and I could drive normally. Less than an hour later, same thing. Always after a stop.
When you wrote that it "failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop", did you mean you had stopped and shut off the vehicle and when you started it again the problem happened or was it just a stop and go like at a traffic light or stop sign?
And when you wrote " I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang), do you mean that you revved it in gear, and all of a sudden it grabbed with a 'bang' and started to work? Just trying to make some sense of what is going on here.
First, my rig is from 1993, yours apparently a 'little' newer. My dipstick doesn't resemble yours and even if it did, the length of the filler tube is important too. My dipstick has a total length of 685 mm, measured from the inside of the cap. But O.K., here goes nothing:
The middle of the first notch is 23 mm from the end, Low cold.
The middle of the second notch is 36 mm from the end, High cold.
The middle of the third notch is 62 mm from the end, Low hot.
The middle of the fourth notch is 75 mm from the end, High hot.
Your level varies from 22 cold to 31 mm hot, mine 13 mm both cold and hot.
The fluid level cold, engine rested during the night, not started: 19 mm (3/4").
Level after starting and pausing shortly in all positions of the shift lever, ending in Park, kept engine running. This was a little tricky. The level reached halfway between the cold marks every time, but there was a consistent dry patch on the dipstick every time too, a few millimeters below the lowest Cold mark. The patch was a few mm long and half as wide as the width of the stick. That should not happen if that part of the stick really is submerged in oil. Hmm.
After heating up the engine and transmission the level was 30-40 mm above the highest Hot mark, but the car was overheating and not parked perfectly level. Later when I could park on a flat spot and with normal temperature the fluid level was 5 mm above the high Hot mark. That should be right, I added half a quart to what was my understanding of the correct level.
I see no signs of little bubbles in the oil on the stick, not even tiny ones. Can I assume ,that if there is no foaming, therefore no leaks at the filter or anything else in that department? And we agree the level is neither too low, nor too high?
So my question still stands, why does the oil expand so much? From 19 mm to 80 mm, that's a rise of about 60 mm. Assuming the tube is mounted under 45 degrees that gives me a huge 42 mm (1 11/16") rise in level. Or does the oil not expand but thinner oil is pushed up higher by the motion in the sump?
Everybody keeps talking about me having a A340H but on the boilerplate it says 30-83LE. Is that the same transmission or is it something entirely different? Perhaps it's not the cars own trans it was born with?
No, these troubles started before I had the car, my interference didn't cause them. Phew!
I think we can assume there is no low level problem, in fact, there is a little more oil than necessary. Today the trans didn't misbehave, but I cannot say it's fixed.
When the car overheated I noticed the fan wasn't running very fast. This was the first time I could actually stop it with my bare hand. Normally when I give the fan a push, it stops after a few inches, now it kept running for a while when I stopped the engine. I opened the clutch and everything looks as good as new. Perhaps there should be more oil inside. Do you know what I can use to refill, and howmuch should be in there? Some people overhere use sand, that way the clutch won't slip at all and the engine won't get too hot, but I don't want to block the fan if I don't have to. There are no traces of leakage, and the oil in there is thick like honey.
>When you wrote that it "failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop", did you mean you had stopped and shut off the vehicle and when you started it again the problem happened or was it just a stop and go like at a traffic light or stop sign?
It happens both ways, always after a total stop, at a shop, shutting down the engine for a few minutes, idling at a traffic light, overnight in the garage, etc.
>And when you wrote " I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang), do you mean that you revved it in gear, and all of a sudden it grabbed with a 'bang' and started to work? Just trying to make some sense of what is going on here.
Yes, like you say. I've two holes in my yard to prove the 'big bang' theory
I visited the 'specialist' but he wouldn't talk about anything else but new plates. He can't do much else, doesn't know anything about the electonics involved etc., so I don't think that my problems are over when I let him do the job. He asked the equivalent of US$ 714 for parts and labor. Maybe in the states that's cheap, but overhere ... it's not.
Ava.
09-10-2003, 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by Ava
Hi Techwrench,
First, my rig is from 1993, yours apparently a 'little' newer. My dipstick doesn't resemble yours and even if it did, the length of the filler tube is important too. My dipstick has a total length of 685 mm, measured from the inside of the cap. But O.K., here goes nothing:
The middle of the first notch is 23 mm from the end, Low cold.
The middle of the second notch is 36 mm from the end, High cold.
The middle of the third notch is 62 mm from the end, Low hot.
The middle of the fourth notch is 75 mm from the end, High hot.
Your level varies from 22 cold to 31 mm hot, mine 13 mm both cold and hot.
The fluid level cold, engine rested during the night, not started: 19 mm (3/4").
Level after starting and pausing shortly in all positions of the shift lever, ending in Park, kept engine running. This was a little tricky. The level reached halfway between the cold marks every time, but there was a consistent dry patch on the dipstick every time too, a few millimeters below the lowest Cold mark. The patch was a few mm long and half as wide as the width of the stick. That should not happen if that part of the stick really is submerged in oil. Hmm.
After heating up the engine and transmission the level was 30-40 mm above the highest Hot mark, but the car was overheating and not parked perfectly level. Later when I could park on a flat spot and with normal temperature the fluid level was 5 mm above the high Hot mark. That should be right, I added half a quart to what was my understanding of the correct level.
I see no signs of little bubbles in the oil on the stick, not even tiny ones. Can I assume ,that if there is no foaming, therefore no leaks at the filter or anything else in that department? And we agree the level is neither too low, nor too high?
So my question still stands, why does the oil expand so much? From 19 mm to 80 mm, that's a rise of about 60 mm. Assuming the tube is mounted under 45 degrees that gives me a huge 42 mm (1 11/16") rise in level. Or does the oil not expand but thinner oil is pushed up higher by the motion in the sump?
Everybody keeps talking about me having a A340H but on the boilerplate it says 30-83LE. Is that the same transmission or is it something entirely different? Perhaps it's not the cars own trans it was born with?
No, these troubles started before I had the car, my interference didn't cause them. Phew!
I think we can assume there is no low level problem, in fact, there is a little more oil than necessary. Today the trans didn't misbehave, but I cannot say it's fixed.
When the car overheated I noticed the fan wasn't running very fast. This was the first time I could actually stop it with my bare hand. Normally when I give the fan a push, it stops after a few inches, now it kept running for a while when I stopped the engine. I opened the clutch and everything looks as good as new. Perhaps there should be more oil inside. Do you know what I can use to refill, and howmuch should be in there? Some people overhere use sand, that way the clutch won't slip at all and the engine won't get too hot, but I don't want to block the fan if I don't have to. There are no traces of leakage, and the oil in there is thick like honey.
>When you wrote that it "failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop", did you mean you had stopped and shut off the vehicle and when you started it again the problem happened or was it just a stop and go like at a traffic light or stop sign?
It happens both ways, always after a total stop, at a shop, shutting down the engine for a few minutes, idling at a traffic light, overnight in the garage, etc.
>And when you wrote " I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang), do you mean that you revved it in gear, and all of a sudden it grabbed with a 'bang' and started to work? Just trying to make some sense of what is going on here.
Yes, like you say. I've two holes in my yard to prove the 'big bang' theory
I visited the 'specialist' but he wouldn't talk about anything else but new plates. He can't do much else, doesn't know anything about the electonics involved etc., so I don't think that my problems are over when I let him do the job. He asked the equivalent of US$ 714 for parts and labor. Maybe in the states that's cheap, but overhere ... it's not.
Ava.
Hi Techwrench,
First, my rig is from 1993, yours apparently a 'little' newer. My dipstick doesn't resemble yours and even if it did, the length of the filler tube is important too. My dipstick has a total length of 685 mm, measured from the inside of the cap. But O.K., here goes nothing:
The middle of the first notch is 23 mm from the end, Low cold.
The middle of the second notch is 36 mm from the end, High cold.
The middle of the third notch is 62 mm from the end, Low hot.
The middle of the fourth notch is 75 mm from the end, High hot.
Your level varies from 22 cold to 31 mm hot, mine 13 mm both cold and hot.
The fluid level cold, engine rested during the night, not started: 19 mm (3/4").
Level after starting and pausing shortly in all positions of the shift lever, ending in Park, kept engine running. This was a little tricky. The level reached halfway between the cold marks every time, but there was a consistent dry patch on the dipstick every time too, a few millimeters below the lowest Cold mark. The patch was a few mm long and half as wide as the width of the stick. That should not happen if that part of the stick really is submerged in oil. Hmm.
After heating up the engine and transmission the level was 30-40 mm above the highest Hot mark, but the car was overheating and not parked perfectly level. Later when I could park on a flat spot and with normal temperature the fluid level was 5 mm above the high Hot mark. That should be right, I added half a quart to what was my understanding of the correct level.
I see no signs of little bubbles in the oil on the stick, not even tiny ones. Can I assume ,that if there is no foaming, therefore no leaks at the filter or anything else in that department? And we agree the level is neither too low, nor too high?
So my question still stands, why does the oil expand so much? From 19 mm to 80 mm, that's a rise of about 60 mm. Assuming the tube is mounted under 45 degrees that gives me a huge 42 mm (1 11/16") rise in level. Or does the oil not expand but thinner oil is pushed up higher by the motion in the sump?
Everybody keeps talking about me having a A340H but on the boilerplate it says 30-83LE. Is that the same transmission or is it something entirely different? Perhaps it's not the cars own trans it was born with?
No, these troubles started before I had the car, my interference didn't cause them. Phew!
I think we can assume there is no low level problem, in fact, there is a little more oil than necessary. Today the trans didn't misbehave, but I cannot say it's fixed.
When the car overheated I noticed the fan wasn't running very fast. This was the first time I could actually stop it with my bare hand. Normally when I give the fan a push, it stops after a few inches, now it kept running for a while when I stopped the engine. I opened the clutch and everything looks as good as new. Perhaps there should be more oil inside. Do you know what I can use to refill, and howmuch should be in there? Some people overhere use sand, that way the clutch won't slip at all and the engine won't get too hot, but I don't want to block the fan if I don't have to. There are no traces of leakage, and the oil in there is thick like honey.
>When you wrote that it "failed on me when I wanted to pull away at a shop", did you mean you had stopped and shut off the vehicle and when you started it again the problem happened or was it just a stop and go like at a traffic light or stop sign?
It happens both ways, always after a total stop, at a shop, shutting down the engine for a few minutes, idling at a traffic light, overnight in the garage, etc.
>And when you wrote " I got it to go (revving in D and R caused it to mend its ways with a bang), do you mean that you revved it in gear, and all of a sudden it grabbed with a 'bang' and started to work? Just trying to make some sense of what is going on here.
Yes, like you say. I've two holes in my yard to prove the 'big bang' theory
I visited the 'specialist' but he wouldn't talk about anything else but new plates. He can't do much else, doesn't know anything about the electonics involved etc., so I don't think that my problems are over when I let him do the job. He asked the equivalent of US$ 714 for parts and labor. Maybe in the states that's cheap, but overhere ... it's not.
Ava.
In this case, a road test would be worth ten thousand. But since that isn't possible, we will have to do it the hard way so just bear with me. I know I will be asking what may seem to be redundant or non-related questions, but I have to try to get as much info as possible and make sure I am clear on what has been said before.
I know our rigs are very different vintages, but I hope the 'theory' will not be too different. The overall length of the dipstick and tube doesn't matter as long as they are a matched set, and correct for the transmission. The only important issue is that the business end reaches the proper depth into the sump to give an accurate reading. It took me a few readings of this statement of yours: "Your level varies from 22 cold to 31 mm hot, mine 13 mm both cold and hot." before it sunk in. But now I understand it, I think. Let me take a guess about something. The top of my dipstick tube is located on the right side of the engine, about even with the head and about two feet from the firewall. This means it travels down on about a 45 degree angle to the rear to reach the trans. I am betting that your dipstick tube is very close to the firewall, possibly coming up behind the engine. If so, this would mean the angle to the trans is much steeper. The difference in the angle of the end of the dipstick in the sump could explain the difference in distance between the low and high notches and the hot and cold ranges. That being said, all that matters is that you have the correct dipstick and tube for your vehicle/trans combo. Now I am going to jump ahead to the issue of which type of trans you actually have. The reason everyone is using the A340H designation is because that is what the '93 4Runner 4wd is supposed to have in it. Because you have the Hilux Surf flavor, I suppose it is possible that it was built with a different model transmission than the 4Runner. If that is the case, then we are definately talking apples 'n oranges here. I suppose we should get this point straightened out before we go any further with comparisons. I am going to end this now, and do some further investigating online to see if I can verify what trans you do have. One thing you might check is the way the transfer case attaches to the back of the transmission. If you do in fact have an A340H, the information I have indicates that the transfer case is attached to the transmission in such a way that it can't be removed without dismantling the transfer case to get at the connecting bolts. One possible method of identification would be to search for online transmission parts dealers. Many use the outline of the sump pan and bolt layout as identification tools. Try to draw a detailed layout of your pan with bolt hole locations and see if you can match it to their display page.
I will get back as soon as I can.
Last edited by TechWrench; 09-10-2003 at 09:03 PM.
09-10-2003, 09:27 PM
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One last question, do you have O/D engaged when checking the codes?
And your transmission is the Aisin A340H. Mine has the same tin label on the transmission. I still think that it is the No 1 or No 2 solenoid, malfunctioning when hot.
And your transmission is the Aisin A340H. Mine has the same tin label on the transmission. I still think that it is the No 1 or No 2 solenoid, malfunctioning when hot.
09-10-2003, 10:34 PM
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Man this is getting more complicated that it needs to be.
A dipstick is a dipstick and a trans is a trans, but to clear it up I didn’t notice you had the Surf, which means you probably have the A340F or A343F trans.
There is no major difference between the A340H trans section and others. The difference being in the transfer section as Surfs usually come with the F model which uses a gear driven transfer. If you have a 4WD button on your transfer gearlever then you have a A340F or A343F. The only difference between the A343 over the A340 is it has a few more clutch plates being an upgraded version of the A340.
After heating up the engine and transmission the level was 30-40 mm above the highest Hot mark, but the car was overheating and not parked perfectly level. Later when I could park on a flat spot and with normal temperature the fluid level was 5 mm above the high Hot mark. That should be right, I added half a quart to what was my understanding of the correct level.
Seems to me although its very early days, as you have added oil and your oil level now reads where it should be so far you indicate its acting proper.
I would suggest we leave it for a few days and see if your problems returns. If it does then I would agree with Babypig that the next and easiest step would be to replace solenoids 1&2. There are a host of other electrical tests you could do but I’m betting this is a hydraulic problem.
The bang you refer to along with the other symtoms are classic signs of low oil. The bang in the driveline is caused by the torque converter eventually taking up from lack of oil, but there are other causes that can sometimes duplicate this.
In the meantime, it might also be wise to rectify you engine overheating problem as this can have an affect on the correct oil level reading. The oil your refer to in the fan clutch is actually viscous fluid. Replacement tubes of this are available from Toyota dealers but maybe not in your neck of the woods. If you fan is freewheeling then try and locate a new viscous hub or fill it with sand, LOL. It might also be wise to replace the thermostat at the same time.
A dipstick is a dipstick and a trans is a trans, but to clear it up I didn’t notice you had the Surf, which means you probably have the A340F or A343F trans.
There is no major difference between the A340H trans section and others. The difference being in the transfer section as Surfs usually come with the F model which uses a gear driven transfer. If you have a 4WD button on your transfer gearlever then you have a A340F or A343F. The only difference between the A343 over the A340 is it has a few more clutch plates being an upgraded version of the A340.
After heating up the engine and transmission the level was 30-40 mm above the highest Hot mark, but the car was overheating and not parked perfectly level. Later when I could park on a flat spot and with normal temperature the fluid level was 5 mm above the high Hot mark. That should be right, I added half a quart to what was my understanding of the correct level.
Seems to me although its very early days, as you have added oil and your oil level now reads where it should be so far you indicate its acting proper.
I would suggest we leave it for a few days and see if your problems returns. If it does then I would agree with Babypig that the next and easiest step would be to replace solenoids 1&2. There are a host of other electrical tests you could do but I’m betting this is a hydraulic problem.
The bang you refer to along with the other symtoms are classic signs of low oil. The bang in the driveline is caused by the torque converter eventually taking up from lack of oil, but there are other causes that can sometimes duplicate this.
In the meantime, it might also be wise to rectify you engine overheating problem as this can have an affect on the correct oil level reading. The oil your refer to in the fan clutch is actually viscous fluid. Replacement tubes of this are available from Toyota dealers but maybe not in your neck of the woods. If you fan is freewheeling then try and locate a new viscous hub or fill it with sand, LOL. It might also be wise to replace the thermostat at the same time.
Last edited by JD; 09-10-2003 at 10:52 PM.
09-10-2003, 10:39 PM
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Ava, After some searching, I am fairly sure you have the A340H.
I found the following site for transmission filters which lists the A340H (toyota) and the AW30-80LE (isuzu) as the same unit, with the same sump pan configuration and same filter.
http://www.4wheelnoffroad.com/
When you get to this site, select "Technical Department" on the left side, then scroll down and select Auto Trans ID. This should open a page called Automatic Transmission Index, on this page select 'Imports". At the next page, check the ninth display down, this should be the pan and filter you have.
Let us know if this looks right.
I found the following site for transmission filters which lists the A340H (toyota) and the AW30-80LE (isuzu) as the same unit, with the same sump pan configuration and same filter.
http://www.4wheelnoffroad.com/
When you get to this site, select "Technical Department" on the left side, then scroll down and select Auto Trans ID. This should open a page called Automatic Transmission Index, on this page select 'Imports". At the next page, check the ninth display down, this should be the pan and filter you have.
Let us know if this looks right.
09-10-2003, 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by JD
The bang you refer to along with the other symtoms are classic signs of low oil. The bang in the driveline is caused by the torque converter eventually taking up from lack of oil, but there are other causes that can sometimes duplicate this.
In the meantime, it might also be wise to rectify you engine overheating problem as this can have an affect on the correct oil level reading. The oil your refer to in the fan clutch is actually viscous fluid. Replacement tubes of this are available from Toyota dealers but maybe not in your neck of the woods. If you fan is freewheeling then try and locate a new viscous hub or fill it with sand, LOL. It might also be wise to replace the thermostat at the same time. [/B]
The bang you refer to along with the other symtoms are classic signs of low oil. The bang in the driveline is caused by the torque converter eventually taking up from lack of oil, but there are other causes that can sometimes duplicate this.
In the meantime, it might also be wise to rectify you engine overheating problem as this can have an affect on the correct oil level reading. The oil your refer to in the fan clutch is actually viscous fluid. Replacement tubes of this are available from Toyota dealers but maybe not in your neck of the woods. If you fan is freewheeling then try and locate a new viscous hub or fill it with sand, LOL. It might also be wise to replace the thermostat at the same time. [/B]
I also agree that overheating could play a big part in this, but I'm not so sure sand in the fan hub is a good idea. ;-) I believe most 'clutch' hub type fans are designed to never turn at 'full' speed. The fan blades have too aggressive a bite and if forced to turn too fast they will bog the engine down. I have had people bring in a car that couldn't get out of its own way because the fan clutch had locked up solid. If he can't fix the hub, maybe one of those light weight flex fan blades is the way to go.
As for the solenoid issue, maybe someone can answer this for me.
This is quoted from an earlier post on this.
"This transmission uses 2 solenoids to control the shifting.
solenoid 1 solenoid 2
1 th = ON OFF
2 nd = ON ON
3 rd = OFF ON
4 th = OFF OFF"
I am assuming that these solenoids are either opening and closing a fluid passage with a seal or moving a spool valve when they actuate. In either case, does anyone know if they open a fluid passage when on or close it? Ava mentions that when it is acting up, the vehicle goes 10-20 meters before quiting. Maybe this is when the 1-2 shift is trying to occur. I am wondering if he put the trans in low, and left it so it wouldn't shift if it would keep going in first and not quit?
09-11-2003, 05:54 AM
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I hadn't thought about the 'bang' being tied into the converter being low on fluid, but if that is what the problem is I would suspect a sticking check valve. As I remember, there is a usually a check valve in the circuit for the converter to prevent it from draining back into the trans when shut down.
Yep, but remember he indicated the problem also occurs when he is driving so its not this valve as the pump is working.
I also agree that overheating could play a big part in this, but I'm not so sure sand in the fan hub is a good idea. ;-) If he can't fix the hub, maybe one of those light weight flex fan blades is the way to go.
Tongue in cheek response. Definately use nothing but a viscous on these pumps as the bearing is not that large.
I am assuming that these solenoids are either opening and closing a fluid passage with a seal or moving a spool valve when they actuate. In either case, does anyone know if they open a fluid passage when on or close it?
Not that easy to explain but a simple answer would be yes they open and close to regulate line pressure to the shift valves which in turn direct pressure to the clutch piston in each clutch pack etc to get them to engage.
There is a mechanical shift test that can be done that bypasses the electrical solenoid system but there's no point as the ECU has not detected any electrical problem with the solenoids or speed sensors.
IMHO Ava needs to work on fixing the known problems that could also be playing a contributing factor and they need fixing anyway, such as the overheating. Fix this and then recheck oil levels and then go from there.
The symptoms he initially described are exactly those that are encountered when the oil level is too low, ie you will recall he also mentioned it happens when he turns a corner !!! Why a corner ? Low oil on a corner = air gets into system and to pump = no oil pumped to converter = no drive. Rev it up etc = oil pumped quickly to converter that displaces air = thump.
A "slipping" converter is also the major issue for overheating the oil, which in turn supposed to get cooled by the rad oil cooler, but that gets hot from a buggered cooling system. so we have a catch 22 etc.
But as I indicated there are other possibilities such as the solenoids leaking pressure, hence if the problems continues the easiest and by far the cheapest next move would be to replace these solenoids. I know guys in the US have a lot of problems with them for some reason, whereas we don't.
As you say a test drive and a few hours would probably have it resolved but unless Ava sends an air ticket thats not going to happen ????
JD
Yep, but remember he indicated the problem also occurs when he is driving so its not this valve as the pump is working.
I also agree that overheating could play a big part in this, but I'm not so sure sand in the fan hub is a good idea. ;-) If he can't fix the hub, maybe one of those light weight flex fan blades is the way to go.
Tongue in cheek response. Definately use nothing but a viscous on these pumps as the bearing is not that large.
I am assuming that these solenoids are either opening and closing a fluid passage with a seal or moving a spool valve when they actuate. In either case, does anyone know if they open a fluid passage when on or close it?
Not that easy to explain but a simple answer would be yes they open and close to regulate line pressure to the shift valves which in turn direct pressure to the clutch piston in each clutch pack etc to get them to engage.
There is a mechanical shift test that can be done that bypasses the electrical solenoid system but there's no point as the ECU has not detected any electrical problem with the solenoids or speed sensors.
IMHO Ava needs to work on fixing the known problems that could also be playing a contributing factor and they need fixing anyway, such as the overheating. Fix this and then recheck oil levels and then go from there.
The symptoms he initially described are exactly those that are encountered when the oil level is too low, ie you will recall he also mentioned it happens when he turns a corner !!! Why a corner ? Low oil on a corner = air gets into system and to pump = no oil pumped to converter = no drive. Rev it up etc = oil pumped quickly to converter that displaces air = thump.
A "slipping" converter is also the major issue for overheating the oil, which in turn supposed to get cooled by the rad oil cooler, but that gets hot from a buggered cooling system. so we have a catch 22 etc.
But as I indicated there are other possibilities such as the solenoids leaking pressure, hence if the problems continues the easiest and by far the cheapest next move would be to replace these solenoids. I know guys in the US have a lot of problems with them for some reason, whereas we don't.
As you say a test drive and a few hours would probably have it resolved but unless Ava sends an air ticket thats not going to happen ????
JD
Last edited by JD; 09-11-2003 at 05:55 AM.
09-11-2003, 08:15 AM
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I now see that I am going to have to get my hands on some detailed electrical and hydrolic schematics so that I can better understand exactly what is supposed to be going on in the trans.
More homework....................
More homework....................
09-11-2003, 07:36 PM
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Ava,
Does the light blink twice a second or once a second when you check the diagnostics. Read page eight of the trans schematic that I sent you to. www.net-impress.com/4runner/cd/
in the auto trans section. Just to double check the code checking.
Once a second is a code, twice a second is normal. The o/d must be on. And JD is right. The toyota guy said that the solenoid do go on these trucks quite a bit. They keep lots in stock.
Does the light blink twice a second or once a second when you check the diagnostics. Read page eight of the trans schematic that I sent you to. www.net-impress.com/4runner/cd/
in the auto trans section. Just to double check the code checking.
Once a second is a code, twice a second is normal. The o/d must be on. And JD is right. The toyota guy said that the solenoid do go on these trucks quite a bit. They keep lots in stock.
Last edited by Babypig; 09-11-2003 at 07:40 PM.
09-11-2003, 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by Babypig
One last question, do you have O/D engaged when checking the codes?
And your transmission is the Aisin A340H. Mine has the same tin label on the transmission. I still think that it is the No 1 or No 2 solenoid, malfunctioning when hot.
One last question, do you have O/D engaged when checking the codes?
And your transmission is the Aisin A340H. Mine has the same tin label on the transmission. I still think that it is the No 1 or No 2 solenoid, malfunctioning when hot.
So if 30-83LE equals A340H then TechWrench has his answer.
And the problem isn't heat dependant, Babypig. Cold or hot, it's there. But not today and not yesterday, and maybe not for a forthnight or a month.
Ava.
09-11-2003, 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by TechWrench
Because you have the Hilux Surf flavor, I suppose it is possible that it was built with a different model transmission than the 4Runner. If that is the case, then we are definately talking apples 'n oranges here. I suppose we should get this point straightened out before we go any further with comparisons.
Because you have the Hilux Surf flavor, I suppose it is possible that it was built with a different model transmission than the 4Runner. If that is the case, then we are definately talking apples 'n oranges here. I suppose we should get this point straightened out before we go any further with comparisons.
I had the coolingsystem flushed today, the radiator has been dismantled to open up any clogged tubes. This should help keeping the trans cooler also, since it's cooled (or heated!) by the same radiator.
Ava.
09-11-2003, 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by TechWrench
Ava, After some searching, I am fairly sure you have the A340H.
I found the following site for transmission filters which lists the A340H (toyota) and the AW30-80LE (isuzu) as the same unit, with the same sump pan configuration and same filter.
http://www.4wheelnoffroad.com/
When you get to this site, select "Technical Department" on the left side, then scroll down and select Auto Trans ID. This should open a page called Automatic Transmission Index, on this page select 'Imports". At the next page, check the ninth display down, this should be the pan and filter you have.
Let us know if this looks right.
Ava, After some searching, I am fairly sure you have the A340H.
I found the following site for transmission filters which lists the A340H (toyota) and the AW30-80LE (isuzu) as the same unit, with the same sump pan configuration and same filter.
http://www.4wheelnoffroad.com/
When you get to this site, select "Technical Department" on the left side, then scroll down and select Auto Trans ID. This should open a page called Automatic Transmission Index, on this page select 'Imports". At the next page, check the ninth display down, this should be the pan and filter you have.
Let us know if this looks right.
Ava.
09-11-2003, 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by JD
A dipstick is a dipstick and a trans is a trans, but to clear it up I didn’t notice you had the Surf, which means you probably have the A340F or A343F trans.
If you have a 4WD button on your transfer gearlever then you have a A340F or A343F. The only difference between the A343 over the A340 is it has a few more clutch plates being an upgraded version of the A340.
In the meantime, it might also be wise to rectify you engine overheating problem as this can have an affect on the correct oil level reading. The oil your refer to in the fan clutch is actually viscous fluid. Replacement tubes of this are available from Toyota dealers but maybe not in your neck of the woods. If you fan is freewheeling then try and locate a new viscous hub or fill it with sand, LOL. It might also be wise to replace the thermostat at the same time.
A dipstick is a dipstick and a trans is a trans, but to clear it up I didn’t notice you had the Surf, which means you probably have the A340F or A343F trans.
If you have a 4WD button on your transfer gearlever then you have a A340F or A343F. The only difference between the A343 over the A340 is it has a few more clutch plates being an upgraded version of the A340.
In the meantime, it might also be wise to rectify you engine overheating problem as this can have an affect on the correct oil level reading. The oil your refer to in the fan clutch is actually viscous fluid. Replacement tubes of this are available from Toyota dealers but maybe not in your neck of the woods. If you fan is freewheeling then try and locate a new viscous hub or fill it with sand, LOL. It might also be wise to replace the thermostat at the same time.
Ava.
09-11-2003, 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by JD
The symptoms he initially described are exactly those that are encountered when the oil level is too low, ie you will recall he also mentioned it happens when he turns a corner !!! Why a corner ? Low oil on a corner = air gets into system and to pump = no oil pumped to converter = no drive. Rev it up etc = oil pumped quickly to converter that displaces air = thump.
...
A "slipping" converter is also the major issue for overheating the oil, which in turn supposed to get cooled by the rad oil cooler, but that gets hot from a buggered cooling system. so we have a catch 22 etc.
The symptoms he initially described are exactly those that are encountered when the oil level is too low, ie you will recall he also mentioned it happens when he turns a corner !!! Why a corner ? Low oil on a corner = air gets into system and to pump = no oil pumped to converter = no drive. Rev it up etc = oil pumped quickly to converter that displaces air = thump.
...
A "slipping" converter is also the major issue for overheating the oil, which in turn supposed to get cooled by the rad oil cooler, but that gets hot from a buggered cooling system. so we have a catch 22 etc.
It's not the turning but he stopping part that's causing this. ('Aha! A frontal shockwave bounching off the front of the sump, causing a mysterious phenoma called ... ' 
).Sometimes I can't get the trans back for quite a while (stop with the problem at night, still is there next morning. Looks to me something different than a fluid level problem.
This overheating should be solved now.
Ava.
09-11-2003, 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by TechWrench
I also agree that overheating could play a big part in this, but I'm not so sure sand in the fan hub is a good idea. ;-) I believe most 'clutch' hub type fans are designed to never turn at 'full' speed. The fan blades have too aggressive a bite and if forced to turn too fast they will bog the engine down. I have had people bring in a car that couldn't get out of its own way because the fan clutch had locked up solid. If he can't fix the hub, maybe one of those light weight flex fan blades is the way to go.
...
Ava mentions that when it is acting up, the vehicle goes 10-20 meters before quiting. Maybe this is when the 1-2 shift is trying to occur. I am wondering if he put the trans in low, and left it so it wouldn't shift if it would keep going in first and not quit?
I also agree that overheating could play a big part in this, but I'm not so sure sand in the fan hub is a good idea. ;-) I believe most 'clutch' hub type fans are designed to never turn at 'full' speed. The fan blades have too aggressive a bite and if forced to turn too fast they will bog the engine down. I have had people bring in a car that couldn't get out of its own way because the fan clutch had locked up solid. If he can't fix the hub, maybe one of those light weight flex fan blades is the way to go.
...
Ava mentions that when it is acting up, the vehicle goes 10-20 meters before quiting. Maybe this is when the 1-2 shift is trying to occur. I am wondering if he put the trans in low, and left it so it wouldn't shift if it would keep going in first and not quit?
This 10-20 meters problem was due to the clogged filter, TechWrench, it has nothing to do with not being able to drive after a full stop.
Ava.
09-13-2003, 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Ava
They use bolts through and though to lock up the fan or a piece of gasket. These types of clutches need to slip or else their pump won't work and the temperature controlled valves can't do their regulating work.
This 10-20 meters problem was due to the clogged filter, TechWrench, it has nothing to do with not being able to drive after a full stop.
Ava.
They use bolts through and though to lock up the fan or a piece of gasket. These types of clutches need to slip or else their pump won't work and the temperature controlled valves can't do their regulating work.
This 10-20 meters problem was due to the clogged filter, TechWrench, it has nothing to do with not being able to drive after a full stop.
Ava.
I must have missed that the 10-20 meters thing was no longer happening. So what you now have is the transmission slipping ( neutralizing ) occasionally after a stop?And as for the fan clutch, unless I am completely missinformed, the purpose of the silicone fluid is to allow the to clutch hub to slip so the fan blade doesn't turn at engine speed. As far as I know, the fan is no longer part of the water pump. The water pump is a separate entity which is driven off the serpentine belt, and will turn and move water no matter what the fan clutch is doing.
Last edited by TechWrench; 09-13-2003 at 02:10 PM.
09-13-2003, 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by TechWrench
OK, maybe I am getting confused here with all the symptons being tossed around I must have missed that the 10-20 meters thing was no longer happening. So what you now have is the transmission slipping ( neutralizing ) occasionally after a stop?
And as for the fan clutch, unless I am completely missinformed, the purpose of the silicone fluid is to allow the to clutch hub to slip so the fan blade doesn't turn at engine speed. As far as I know, the fan is no longer part of the water pump. The water pump is a separate entity which is driven off the serpentine belt, and will turn and move water no matter what the fan clutch is doing.
OK, maybe I am getting confused here with all the symptons being tossed around
I must have missed that the 10-20 meters thing was no longer happening. So what you now have is the transmission slipping ( neutralizing ) occasionally after a stop?And as for the fan clutch, unless I am completely missinformed, the purpose of the silicone fluid is to allow the to clutch hub to slip so the fan blade doesn't turn at engine speed. As far as I know, the fan is no longer part of the water pump. The water pump is a separate entity which is driven off the serpentine belt, and will turn and move water no matter what the fan clutch is doing.
The pump I mean is the one in the fanclutch, not the waterpump. 
It pumps the oil (or viscose fluid) from the outer diameter to the container in the center. The harder it slips, the harder it pumps. If it slips too much it's possibly pumping all the fluid away, making it slip even harder. I've seen that happen on my rig. Possibly there was a clogged part in the radiator so the fan wasn't feeling the heath, closed its fluid passages and almost totally freewheeled making driving impossible. I had the radiator unclogged and the cooling system backflushed by a specialist (don't make me laugh!) and all seems okay now; no more steam engine!
And yes, I have a transmission (or transfercase or what else) that from time to time doesn't engage after a stop (engine running or not). Happened yesterday after I had a dinner with friends. After a few minutes of effortless revving and shifting I stopped the engine, restarted in neutral, something clicked (I think) and I could drive away as if nothing had happened.
I see lots of people are combining the transmission with the transfercase, and others (me included) see them as separate units. This increases the confusion.
I've checked the transfercase (plug on the rear) and is has enough ATF in it. But what is that oilpan between the transfercase and the transmission? There is a drainplug init, but the Haynes manual doesn't say anything about it. It must be part of the hydraulic transfercase, but if it has to be filled from the rear plug that is positioned level with the bottom? Or is is filled via the transmission?
In the document http://www.net-impress.com/4runner/cd/TRANSMI2.PDF on page 7 there's mention of *two* drain plugs which should both be loosened together. On page 6 is stated that the 4Runner V6 (1995, mine's 1993) needs 10.9 (!) Qts of ATF, and only half that amount (4.8 Qts) on a refill. That way an oil change doesn't really change much oil, does it?
I had the transmission oil changed by another such 'specialist' but if the front oil pan only holds half the oil, there could be 6.1 Qts of contaminated oil be left and the filter could be (partly) clogged again.
TechWrench, could the problem be located in the transfercase instead of the transmission? Could the problem be caused by the vacuum control that's used for 4WD drive?
Ava.
09-13-2003, 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Babypig
Ava,
Does the light blink twice a second or once a second when you check the diagnostics. Read page eight of the trans schematic that I sent you to. www.net-impress.com/4runner/cd/
in the auto trans section. Just to double check the code checking.
Once a second is a code, twice a second is normal. The o/d must be on. And JD is right. The toyota guy said that the solenoid do go on these trucks quite a bit. They keep lots in stock.
Ava,
Does the light blink twice a second or once a second when you check the diagnostics. Read page eight of the trans schematic that I sent you to. www.net-impress.com/4runner/cd/
in the auto trans section. Just to double check the code checking.
Once a second is a code, twice a second is normal. The o/d must be on. And JD is right. The toyota guy said that the solenoid do go on these trucks quite a bit. They keep lots in stock.
And the lights are blinking quite fast, no problem (well, none detected) there.
Ava.
09-13-2003, 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by Ava
Sorry that I'm confusing you, TechWrench, but I'll make it worse.The pump I mean is the one in the fanclutch, not the waterpump. It pumps the oil (or viscose fluid) from the outer diameter to the container in the center. The harder it slips, the harder it pumps. If it slips too much it's possibly pumping all the fluid away, making it slip even harder. I've seen that happen on my rig. Possibly there was a clogged part in the radiator so the fan wasn't feeling the heath, closed its fluid passages and almost totally freewheeled making driving impossible.
I had the radiator unclogged and the cooling system backflushed by a specialist (don't make me laugh!) and all seems okay now; no more steam engine!
And yes, I have a transmission (or transfercase or what else) that from time to time doesn't engage after a stop (engine running or not). Happened yesterday after I had a dinner with friends. After a few minutes of effortless revving and shifting I stopped the engine, restarted in neutral, something clicked (I think) and I could drive away as if nothing had happened.
I see lots of people are combining the transmission with the transfercase, and others (me included) see them as separate units. This increases the confusion.
I've checked the transfercase (plug on the rear) and is has enough ATF in it. But what is that oilpan between the transfercase and the transmission? There is a drainplug init, but the Haynes manual doesn't say anything about it. It must be part of the hydraulic transfercase, but if it has to be filled from the rear plug that is positioned level with the bottom? Or is is filled via the transmission?
In the document http://www.net-impress.com/4runner/cd/TRANSMI2.PDF on page 7 there's mention of *two* drain plugs which should both be loosened together. On page 6 is stated that the 4Runner V6 (1995, mine's 1993) needs 10.9 (!) Qts of ATF, and only half that amount (4.8 Qts) on a refill. That way an oil change doesn't really change much oil, does it?
I had the transmission oil changed by another such 'specialist' but if the front oil pan only holds half the oil, there could be 6.1 Qts of contaminated oil be left and the filter could be (partly) clogged again.
TechWrench, could the problem be located in the transfercase instead of the transmission? Could the problem be caused by the vacuum control that's used for 4WD drive?
Ava.
Sorry that I'm confusing you, TechWrench, but I'll make it worse.
The pump I mean is the one in the fanclutch, not the waterpump. It pumps the oil (or viscose fluid) from the outer diameter to the container in the center. The harder it slips, the harder it pumps. If it slips too much it's possibly pumping all the fluid away, making it slip even harder. I've seen that happen on my rig. Possibly there was a clogged part in the radiator so the fan wasn't feeling the heath, closed its fluid passages and almost totally freewheeled making driving impossible. I had the radiator unclogged and the cooling system backflushed by a specialist (don't make me laugh!) and all seems okay now; no more steam engine!
And yes, I have a transmission (or transfercase or what else) that from time to time doesn't engage after a stop (engine running or not). Happened yesterday after I had a dinner with friends. After a few minutes of effortless revving and shifting I stopped the engine, restarted in neutral, something clicked (I think) and I could drive away as if nothing had happened.
I see lots of people are combining the transmission with the transfercase, and others (me included) see them as separate units. This increases the confusion.
I've checked the transfercase (plug on the rear) and is has enough ATF in it. But what is that oilpan between the transfercase and the transmission? There is a drainplug init, but the Haynes manual doesn't say anything about it. It must be part of the hydraulic transfercase, but if it has to be filled from the rear plug that is positioned level with the bottom? Or is is filled via the transmission?
In the document http://www.net-impress.com/4runner/cd/TRANSMI2.PDF on page 7 there's mention of *two* drain plugs which should both be loosened together. On page 6 is stated that the 4Runner V6 (1995, mine's 1993) needs 10.9 (!) Qts of ATF, and only half that amount (4.8 Qts) on a refill. That way an oil change doesn't really change much oil, does it?
I had the transmission oil changed by another such 'specialist' but if the front oil pan only holds half the oil, there could be 6.1 Qts of contaminated oil be left and the filter could be (partly) clogged again.
TechWrench, could the problem be located in the transfercase instead of the transmission? Could the problem be caused by the vacuum control that's used for 4WD drive?
Ava.
Howthingswork.com
"Most cars that have an engine-driven cooling fan have a thermostatically controlled viscous clutch. This clutch is positioned at the hub of the fan, in the airflow coming through the radiator. This type of clutch is a special viscous clutch, much like the viscous coupling sometimes found in all-wheel drive cars. The fluid in the clutch gets thicker as it heats up, causing the fan to spin faster to catch up with the engine rotation. When the car is cold, the fluid in the clutch remains cold and the fan spins slowly, allowing the engine to quickly warm up to its proper operating temperature."
As for the whole transmission/transfer case thing. With the A340H model, the H refers to the type of transfer case used. In your case, you have a hydrolic transfer case which uses ATF just
like the transmission. But they do not share the same fluid. Each
is filled from different places. As for changing the fluid in the transmission, it is true that when you drain the pan you only get less than half the fluid out. The remainder is contained mostly in the torque converter which on most newer vehicles does not have a drain plug. So unless you can find a shop that has a transmission flush machine, you are left with draining the pan several times and letting the old oil mix with the new to dilute the old as much as possible.
As for the problem you are experiencing being caused by the transfer case, I'm not sure. I would tend to think not, but I don't know enough about how the hydrolic unit function differs from the manual one say for sure. By the way you are describing the symptoms, I am inclined to think the problem is control related. Either an electrical problem with the solenoids, or in intermittant sticking valve, possibly the main pressure regulating valve in the main pump, but at this point I am just guessing
Last edited by TechWrench; 09-13-2003 at 09:54 PM.
