Slideshow86

I NEED HELP ON THIS TOO.

I have a 93 with Tg sas with 4" leafs. Single case.

I know the rules.
-Shaft must be in faze
-If its single u-joint I need to match angles between 1-3 deg from tcase flange to pinion flange.
-If its dual cardan I point pinion flange with 0-1 deg of difference with drive shaft and make sure the tcase angle isnt over flexing. The more angle on the joint the less life.

I dont have the funds for dual cases so I am trying to make something that will not vibrate in 4wd at speed. Currently my tcase and engine are pointing up 5 deg. My pinion is pointing up 5deg (but in the opposite direction). I have 10 deg of difference.

I built the truck for a naches trip this last summer and didnt have a pre 85 cardan joint to work with and my angles were greater than what my ifs shaft would allow (22 deg was what I measured it would alow max). A friend and I shortened a single ujoint rear shaft for the front. I swapped flanges (I think cus one was different) and replaced the ujoints. Now I had a high angle shaft I could use for the trip. But being my angles had 10deg of difference I couldnt go over 10mph with out nasty vibes.

Heres My question, If I use a dual cardan joint and DONT CUT AND ROTATE MY AXLE, will my difference of angle at the bottom of the shaft-to-pinion flange make it vibrate any way? I know for no vibes you need to match them at 0-1 deg, I also know they make shims to adjust angle (taking caster into consideration) I have a shim I have tried and the caster makes doesnt "feel" unstable over 3000mi but im still estimating a 5 deg difference at the shaft-to-pinion flange. I dont really know anyone who drives these "at speed" after a sas so I dont know who to ask.

Thanks!

GonOvr

Unlock your hubs, and put the case in 2wd. Front shaft wont spin that way you only have to use it when you want to and not have to worry about your front shaft angle.
Using a CV shaft the joint at the axle needs to be within 2 degrees of straight to have the least amount of vibration. It doesnt matter what angle the CV portion of the shaft is at.

Slideshow86

gonovr

Unlock your hubs, and put the case in 2wd. Front shaft wont spin that way you only have to use it when you want to and not have to worry about your front shaft angle. This is what I have been doing for the past 8 months since I built it for the naches trip. It works for 4lo but It is snowing around me now and I still have covered roads! I need to drive atleast 40mph.

Using a CV shaft the joint at the axle needs to be within 2 degrees of straight to have the least amount of vibration. It doesnt matter what angle the CV portion of the shaft is at. Ok so this answers my question as long as its concensus. I know there are millions of lifted yotas running around and I cant imagine all of em have a clearanced dual cardan joints and cut and turned front axles.

How bad are all the vibes for the people running a similar set up with shims up to the limit of caster and a pre 85 dual cardan joints. Ive looked at a lot of yotas in parking lots and what not and all seem to have 0-10deg of tilt "up", seems just like mine? They dont "point straight at the tcase", but i havent asked people how they drive?

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

I'm running 4" Allpro springs, FROR spring hanger (Lower than other manufactures), dual cases, unbalanced CV DS, NO SHIMS, and No rotated knockles. Up to the speeds I've driven no noticable vibes. I'm been up to 40mph.

As for having to be pre 85 post 82 or 83 for a driveshaft not true. An IFS can be clearanced for sufficient angle, I'm running one for my rear shaft and my rear pinion is rotated to about 2*

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...line-101.shtml look at operation angles

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/ will explain how to clearance a IFS driveshaft.

I've ran all of Naches with IFS.

Slideshow86

Muddpigg- the major difference you have is dual cases. It makes your rear shaft almost the same length as your front shaft. It releaves about 10 deg of angle from your tcase flange to dual cardan joint.

I am still at single cases with regular drop pinion. Which I just put in all new bearings in and new 5.29s. My angle at top joint is probably 30 deg. I just don't want to throw more money in the wrong direction again!

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

At 30* your going to have problems with a most CV shafts too. Call Brian at High Angle get his opinion or Tom Woods. I've seen a taller set up with Tom Woods shafts and single case. I had bad vibes from my rear at 15*.

GonOvr

Right now with your setup you will have vibrations. is it going to spit the driveline out? No. Unless you have mass amounts of droop and max your cv out. Toyota CV have some of the highest clearances without grinding. Your rig is no longer meant to drive at 40 in 4wd unless you cut and rotate the front axle or lower the rig. Your front shaft hates you, it will hold up but it will prematurely wear out. For the time being keep it greased and try not to haul ass.

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

gonovr- the rig in your sig is a beast did you build it?

GonOvr

Yea started it last july, still not finished but its pretty close.

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

The atlas gives you different gear combinations doesn't, I mean like running dual cases. I have 2.28 or 4.7 or 2.28 + 4.7.

Slideshow86

Ok. I jut did some re measureing and threw the front shims I have back in. They are just enough to change the caster to where I like it.

My guess of 30* is wrong. It will be more like 27*. The difference at the tcase flange to ujoint is 25* and the driveshaft to pinion is 12*. I just don't see it possible for it not to vibrate even with a high angle dual cardan joint if I don't cut and rotate.

Two problems I have is...

-I dont know anyone with similar set ups so I dont know how much a dual cardsn set up with a difference of 10-12* at the pinion would vibe? No point in changing anything unless I cut and rotate first.

-I dont konw if my "at rest" angle of 25-27* would easiy go past my max of 32* when flexing out if I was running a clearanced toyota dual cardan joint. No point in doing all that work and replacing two ujoints if It isnt going to fix my issue.

Slideshow86

I figured id take a couple photos of my vibration mess.

This first shaft I had im my truck wasnt a toyota shaft, it was very narrow and the driveline guy said not to use it, I needed to source another rear shaft unless I wanted to break it. He said "the local toyota guys" dont run anything like this, they run toyota knuckles/yolks and re-tube to minimum of .095.

So I sourced a shaft

Here is the first shaft I had made for the rear. I had it lengthened and two ujoints put in and balanced. Cost me around $300



I couldnt use it because I was running 15* of angle off the tcase. I wish the guy would have told me before he took my money. Crap, ok so now what. After researching I was able to find a nice 35* front shaft out of an 85 and I had it re-tubed. That cost me around $250 with one new ujoint (plus $50 for the shaft)



I was able to get the rear difference with my chevy 63s with a shim to 1* to compinsate for some axle wrap. There are no vibes what so ever up to 90+ from the rear.



Im $600 into rear shafts but atleast both are tubed to .95 and I have an extra.




OK so now to the front. I had to toss my ifs shaft. Ive already explained
-Ifs shaft 22*
-83-85 front shaft is 32*
-rules of both single and dual cardan joints.

Here is my front shaft as of now.... another $250 worth.



I have tossed a bunch of ideas around, it seems a high angle dual cardan joint (not oem toyota) and cutting and turning the front axle is the ONLY REAL OPTION IF NOT GOING DUAL CASES.

IF YOU ARE LIFTED 4-6 INCHES WITH SINGLE CASE HOW FAST CAN YOU GO IN 4WD WITH OUT VIBES AND WHAT SET UP ARE YOU RUNNING?

I honestly cant go 10 mph with this set up in 4wd!

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

Besides a trail only creeping rig I don't see a cheap solution for you.

Plan out what you want your build to go down the road so you can stop throwing money away. Dual cases will mean more driveshaft modification. To keep it single cases and cut and rotate the front axle will cost new Driveshaft plus axle mods. Then if down the road you decide to ge duals will require more modifications.

When I went dual cases I set the rear suspension up the way I wanted it to do everything in one process.

FWIW you can get 35* from an IFS front drive shaft.

GonOvr

1st off its not your CV giving the vibration its your pinion joint. No matter what way you look at it you have get that pinion joint to go less of an angle. Either find an fj80 high pinion axle, cut and turn your axle or lower it. If you absolutely have to keep your current setup get a double cv shaft, find 2 ifs shafts and use both cv's one at the case one at the pinion. The CV doesnt care what the pinion joint is at, your pinion joint is your culprit. If you do a double CV shaft, you will have about 10* spare at the case and about 23 at the pinion until they are maxed out.

GonOvr

Im not sure where your getting your IFS CV's at but i've had many and they all would bind right about at 35* which is plenty in your case.

Slideshow86

I honestly didn't know I should have sourced a high pinion in the first place or I would. I really really wish I had as I've already geared it to 4.88s and 33s and then swapped to 5.29s and 35s. Im just glad I was able to get dollar for dollar for my 4.88s and my 33s.

When I was on 33s with 488s I was running the 6in shackles in the rear and homemade front shackles. I was able to run my origional front cv shaft with no vibes up to 60 mph. When I swapped to 35s I made custom rear shackles and put the 6in ones up front. It changed everything and I could no longer use the front cv shaft (not sure what most the CRAP the PO bolted on this thing before I got it, I also don't have friends to reference things off of).

I think im going to leave it as is and sell my front 5.29 3rd member and buy a high pinion, gears and bearings and do it once again. I may try dual cv joints on both ends, hmmmm atleast now I have options.

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

Dual CVs? in what universe does that work?

Seems like if you played swaps with the shackles and the one you added to the front started making problems then go back to the way it was.

GonOvr

This Universe

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

Seriously; are y'all pulling my leg? Never seen that.

Slideshow86

Im not sure? I found a few people off craigslist and they all didnt have much.

Heres another question. What is better, a clearanced joint or a factory 35* joint?

Heres another thing I just though of, FIRST ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE AT REST. My front is 28.5" flange to flange with 25* top 10* bottom with single ujoints top and bottom. the single u joint is about 3.5" from flange to where the tube starts. so right now I have 21.5" of tube and 7" of joint. A cv joint is aprox 7" from flange to where the tube starts, meaning I would have 14.5 in of tube and 14" of joint . Wouldnt that make it an even steeper angle?

This is going to be interesting to mock up to see if its going to work.