FJ Debate
07-27-2006, 12:46 AM
#81
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From what I witnessed at SE4RJ3 the FJ's were very capable offroad. I too wanted Toyota to issue them with an available SFA & removable top, but so far it hasn't happened. Sooner or later someone will do it. But you have to start somewhere & like has been stated before in this thread trail rigs are built not bought.
I strongly suspect I will own one in a few years after some more R&D has been done in the aftermarket department & a few SAS's have been done with success.
From SE4RJ3:
I strongly suspect I will own one in a few years after some more R&D has been done in the aftermarket department & a few SAS's have been done with success.
From SE4RJ3:
07-27-2006, 01:29 AM
#82
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Originally Posted by neilan
well everyone here seems to be taking offroad ability not whats actually happens when u take it offroad. I mean getting sideways into tress ,having mud flung all over everything, and also water + new rigs with lots of electrical goodies = in my opinion a huge mess. Each month i get four wheeler magazine. Every month for about the past year even befor the fj came out there was a thicker cardboard type page with stats on the fj and this month (topic 11) was on the body. It talk about how everything is reinforced and coated with special crap so it dont rust. Also how it has a super rigid frame. Well ya thats all good but they try to sell it to off road enthusiasts and of course some of us buy it and wheel it. But with wheelin eventually comes problems. Say you got sideways into a tree. On an 85 runner i can go to the wrecker get a whole door for 100 bucks. Where as fj door, well good luck finding one anywhere. Unless you go to a body shop or dealer which both will rape you in the money department. The way i look at is ya both can be wheeled decently but both have there disadvantages. It seems that were all about offroad ability but we dont have big check books. I like to go have fun offroad and with that fun comes breaks and breaks cost money. I figure i can have alot more fun with a truck that is decently capable and doesnt break the bank when it does break than one that breaks and i cry when the dealer or parts store tells me a price.
You have somewhat of a point BUT that has nothing to do with whether or not the vehicle is competent off-road. The only issue you're really addressing is age. We're talking a 22 year old vehicle vs. a less-than-22-month-old vehicle. There will DEFINITELY be less parts available for the newer vehicle but that's a risk you accept when you go wheeling, right?
... I had more to say here but I'm not going to waste my time
07-27-2006, 04:04 AM
#83
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Originally Posted by bulldog-yota
Not sure what the point of the thread is 
I started to post a long list of technical detail, but realized it will be lost on the thread starter. So all I can say is don't argue before you know the facts, and wheel what you got. Besides it is much more fun out on the trail than arguing on the internet.
Besides a hardcore FJC is just a SAC away, if rockcrawling is your thing. But a mini will still be your best bet. And what about the other 99% of trails and roads you have to drive?
I would not be able to do a 1/4 of the trails I do now if I had to drive a Jeep Wrangler, 40, 1st Gen, etc. Simply due to the fact that I wont be able to cover the ground required, in the time I have availible, and still feel up to doing anything if I'm able to get there in time.
(Now if I could get my hands on a brand new 80 or a 105 things might be different, till then I will stick with my pavement princess. However they are not nearly as nice to drive everyday, which is 90% of the miles most folks do)
I started to post a long list of technical detail, but realized it will be lost on the thread starter. So all I can say is don't argue before you know the facts, and wheel what you got. Besides it is much more fun out on the trail than arguing on the internet.
Besides a hardcore FJC is just a SAC away, if rockcrawling is your thing. But a mini will still be your best bet. And what about the other 99% of trails and roads you have to drive?
I would not be able to do a 1/4 of the trails I do now if I had to drive a Jeep Wrangler, 40, 1st Gen, etc. Simply due to the fact that I wont be able to cover the ground required, in the time I have availible, and still feel up to doing anything if I'm able to get there in time.
(Now if I could get my hands on a brand new 80 or a 105 things might be different, till then I will stick with my pavement princess. However they are not nearly as nice to drive everyday, which is 90% of the miles most folks do)
Also, specs are not lost on me, bring them on, come with a point or don't waste everyones time. I agree with the "wheel what you got" mentality, and unless I am missing something, I do know the facts. The only fact I didn't realize when I started this convo is that the FJ is the only one with factory option sliders, A TRAC, and a locker. So, if you came to debate, which is what forums are about, then do so, if you came to be semi-insulting, then please do it elsewhere.
As far as people being impressed with the FJ's off road prowess, how many of you have driven one, not watched or rode in one and what vehicle with what mods, do you have to compare it to? I wheeled a trail up here that I thought, and told others, "a locker is probably required on this trail for the hard obstacles" but then a guy in a single cab open/open Tacoma came through and whaled every obstacle first try. Now, I watched it and I could say, "wow, my locked in the rear first gen didn't seem to do it much easier than his open tacoma, Tacomas are amazing off road." However, it was mostly his driving skill. You can't guage how good off road a vehicle is unless it is the same driver, same obstacle, different truck IMO.
Now, I plan to try to get a test drive in an FJ this weekend at Mini-takeover, so I have a locked, SFA runner and an open tacoma to compare it to (I have wheeled those extensively), I will return with my results if I get to drive it.
As for the Reiter run, how many people attempted and failed the obstacle in question? You said a taco, a buggy, and an FJ made it, who tried and didn't?
07-27-2006, 05:18 AM
#84
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Arguing value judgments is usually futile.
The point so far has been, "Is the FJ the Best Off-Road Rig"? Best in what?
The FJ is a nice little truck for what it is. It is a late model 4R/Taco with A-trac and a locker and a fancy body.
IFS, a rear locker and A-trac with a lift and 33's will do 95% of the wheeling people on this board do.
Any rig is just an axle swap away. I can put Pro-Rocks under my RAV4, now I have a super truck. Throw on 40's and an Atlas and call it good.
Toyota will not make Rubicon type rig. Toyota owners are too practical and Toyota Corporate is too smart. Who would buy a new 35k rig, throw 5-10k at it additionally, and wheel the hell out of it? There is a name for people like that, Jeep owners.
To all who are offended, I have a grocery getter too. And a person hauler, and a hunting rig. It happens to have solid axles and 37's. Call it a pretty, pretty princess car, it doesn't matter.
The point so far has been, "Is the FJ the Best Off-Road Rig"? Best in what?
The FJ is a nice little truck for what it is. It is a late model 4R/Taco with A-trac and a locker and a fancy body.
IFS, a rear locker and A-trac with a lift and 33's will do 95% of the wheeling people on this board do.
Any rig is just an axle swap away. I can put Pro-Rocks under my RAV4, now I have a super truck. Throw on 40's and an Atlas and call it good.
Toyota will not make Rubicon type rig. Toyota owners are too practical and Toyota Corporate is too smart. Who would buy a new 35k rig, throw 5-10k at it additionally, and wheel the hell out of it? There is a name for people like that, Jeep owners.
To all who are offended, I have a grocery getter too. And a person hauler, and a hunting rig. It happens to have solid axles and 37's. Call it a pretty, pretty princess car, it doesn't matter.
07-27-2006, 05:41 AM
#85
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I have driven an FJ twice.
I liked it. I thought it had a nice interior, and i agree, for almost everyone on this board, it would be as capable, if not more, than their own rigs, including me.
I have seen that the rear diff is weak, and its is, after everything is said and done, a car that is meant to ride well on road.
The skids are a joke, but they tried, and the sliders are nice. For a factory option, they are impressive.
The main difference is that an FJ cruiser with the offroad options is probably pushing 30k. So, can it do all the trails that i do in my truck?....sure Would i take it up those trails?....no. My truck, kbb, is probably 1500-2000...with all the mods, probably closer to 1000....so yeah, not quite so big a deal if it gets a little dent or a little scratch.
I liked it. I thought it had a nice interior, and i agree, for almost everyone on this board, it would be as capable, if not more, than their own rigs, including me.
I have seen that the rear diff is weak, and its is, after everything is said and done, a car that is meant to ride well on road.
The skids are a joke, but they tried, and the sliders are nice. For a factory option, they are impressive.
The main difference is that an FJ cruiser with the offroad options is probably pushing 30k. So, can it do all the trails that i do in my truck?....sure Would i take it up those trails?....no. My truck, kbb, is probably 1500-2000...with all the mods, probably closer to 1000....so yeah, not quite so big a deal if it gets a little dent or a little scratch.
07-27-2006, 08:52 AM
#86
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Ok,if some people get annoyed at the Hummer crowd for being pretenders then what about us that get annoyed by seeing 24" wheels on a actual off road capable vehicle thus taking the off road facet away. I guess those people are being realistic. I'm sure in our everyday travels you'll always see more H2s with oversize rims on them than FJs,the FJ just isn't that blingy enough to hopefully avoid that tacky trend that we see too much.
07-27-2006, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Intrepid
The point of this thread is to discuss whether the FJ is as amazing as people seem to think it is and as Toyota says it is or if it is just the same as the rest in the line up. Since that has been said multiple times, if you don't get it by now,you should probably go read a "Revo's or BFG AT's" thread instead.
Also, specs are not lost on me, bring them on, come with a point or don't waste everyones time. I agree with the "wheel what you got" mentality, and unless I am missing something, I do know the facts. The only fact I didn't realize when I started this convo is that the FJ is the only one with factory option sliders, A TRAC, and a locker. So, if you came to debate, which is what forums are about, then do so, if you came to be semi-insulting, then please do it elsewhere.
As far as people being impressed with the FJ's off road prowess, how many of you have driven one, not watched or rode in one and what vehicle with what mods, do you have to compare it to? I wheeled a trail up here that I thought, and told others, "a locker is probably required on this trail for the hard obstacles" but then a guy in a single cab open/open Tacoma came through and whaled every obstacle first try. Now, I watched it and I could say, "wow, my locked in the rear first gen didn't seem to do it much easier than his open tacoma, Tacomas are amazing off road." However, it was mostly his driving skill. You can't guage how good off road a vehicle is unless it is the same driver, same obstacle, different truck IMO.
Now, I plan to try to get a test drive in an FJ this weekend at Mini-takeover, so I have a locked, SFA runner and an open tacoma to compare it to (I have wheeled those extensively), I will return with my results if I get to drive it.
As for the Reiter run, how many people attempted and failed the obstacle in question? You said a taco, a buggy, and an FJ made it, who tried and didn't?
Also, specs are not lost on me, bring them on, come with a point or don't waste everyones time. I agree with the "wheel what you got" mentality, and unless I am missing something, I do know the facts. The only fact I didn't realize when I started this convo is that the FJ is the only one with factory option sliders, A TRAC, and a locker. So, if you came to debate, which is what forums are about, then do so, if you came to be semi-insulting, then please do it elsewhere.
As far as people being impressed with the FJ's off road prowess, how many of you have driven one, not watched or rode in one and what vehicle with what mods, do you have to compare it to? I wheeled a trail up here that I thought, and told others, "a locker is probably required on this trail for the hard obstacles" but then a guy in a single cab open/open Tacoma came through and whaled every obstacle first try. Now, I watched it and I could say, "wow, my locked in the rear first gen didn't seem to do it much easier than his open tacoma, Tacomas are amazing off road." However, it was mostly his driving skill. You can't guage how good off road a vehicle is unless it is the same driver, same obstacle, different truck IMO.
Now, I plan to try to get a test drive in an FJ this weekend at Mini-takeover, so I have a locked, SFA runner and an open tacoma to compare it to (I have wheeled those extensively), I will return with my results if I get to drive it.
As for the Reiter run, how many people attempted and failed the obstacle in question? You said a taco, a buggy, and an FJ made it, who tried and didn't?
The gas tank has been tucked to improve breakover in the real world. The ATRAC has been adjusted to be more agressive than on any other models. The rear tire has been moved to the door and the bottom cleaned up quite bit, making a big improvement in real world departure angle.
The wheelbase has been reduced by 4" and the rear overhang also quite a bit.
The drivetrain is just cobbled together from parts in the Taco/4R/Prado line up.
I have wheeled with FJC quite a few times now, and I own a 03 4R. The differences are apparent on the trail. So to say the FJC is just a 4R with a fancy body is very incorrect. Sure they do share the same type of frame and suspension type. Teh one comes pre tuned for offroad the other not. Doesn't mean you can not do the same to the 4R, but there are some nice touches.
The FJC is not the world wheeling king, but guess what Toyota did what they needed to do to get it out there. I just find it amazing that most folks bashing it has never wheeled with them or try to compare their modded trucks to a stock truck. This is getting very old by now. Bashing the FJC is so 2005/early 2006.
Could Toyota have done more, sure yes. I would have preferred if they used the 3dr prado chasis, making the overhangs even shorter and also the wheelbase with the gas tank under the cargo area. Reroute the exhaust under the tranny.
The IFS is fine, I have yet to see somebody grenade the IFS on the 4R, and this is with guys running 33s and 35s on them. And until Toyota fixes the rear elocker, it might be prudent to get it open and an ARB lcoker in the back (those seem to hold up fine). I seriously doubt Toyota will ever bring a SFA rig to the US. Also even look in OZ at the sales number of the Prado 120 vs the 100 vs the 105 and then you decide which truck you would invest in for the future. If you want SFA you will have to do it aftermarket.
07-27-2006, 10:13 AM
#89
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Originally Posted by bulldog-yota
So while you know all the facts, you should know that the FJC suspension has been revised quite a bit to improve offroad ability at the cost of onroad perfromance. Different swaybars, coil rates and longer rear shocks.
The gas tank has been tucked to improve breakover in the real world. The ATRAC has been adjusted to be more agressive than on any other models. The rear tire has been moved to the door and the bottom cleaned up quite bit, making a big improvement in real world departure angle.
The wheelbase has been reduced by 4" and the rear overhang also quite a bit.
The drivetrain is just cobbled together from parts in the Taco/4R/Prado line up.
I have wheeled with FJC quite a few times now, and I own a 03 4R. The differences are apparent on the trail. So to say the FJC is just a 4R with a fancy body is very incorrect. Sure they do share the same type of frame and suspension type. Teh one comes pre tuned for offroad the other not. Doesn't mean you can not do the same to the 4R, but there are some nice touches.
The FJC is not the world wheeling king, but guess what Toyota did what they needed to do to get it out there. I just find it amazing that most folks bashing it has never wheeled with them or try to compare their modded trucks to a stock truck. This is getting very old by now. Bashing the FJC is so 2005/early 2006.
Could Toyota have done more, sure yes. I would have preferred if they used the 3dr prado chasis, making the overhangs even shorter and also the wheelbase with the gas tank under the cargo area. Reroute the exhaust under the tranny.
The IFS is fine, I have yet to see somebody grenade the IFS on the 4R, and this is with guys running 33s and 35s on them. And until Toyota fixes the rear elocker, it might be prudent to get it open and an ARB lcoker in the back (those seem to hold up fine). I seriously doubt Toyota will ever bring a SFA rig to the US. Also even look in OZ at the sales number of the Prado 120 vs the 100 vs the 105 and then you decide which truck you would invest in for the future. If you want SFA you will have to do it aftermarket.
The gas tank has been tucked to improve breakover in the real world. The ATRAC has been adjusted to be more agressive than on any other models. The rear tire has been moved to the door and the bottom cleaned up quite bit, making a big improvement in real world departure angle.
The wheelbase has been reduced by 4" and the rear overhang also quite a bit.
The drivetrain is just cobbled together from parts in the Taco/4R/Prado line up.
I have wheeled with FJC quite a few times now, and I own a 03 4R. The differences are apparent on the trail. So to say the FJC is just a 4R with a fancy body is very incorrect. Sure they do share the same type of frame and suspension type. Teh one comes pre tuned for offroad the other not. Doesn't mean you can not do the same to the 4R, but there are some nice touches.
The FJC is not the world wheeling king, but guess what Toyota did what they needed to do to get it out there. I just find it amazing that most folks bashing it has never wheeled with them or try to compare their modded trucks to a stock truck. This is getting very old by now. Bashing the FJC is so 2005/early 2006.
Could Toyota have done more, sure yes. I would have preferred if they used the 3dr prado chasis, making the overhangs even shorter and also the wheelbase with the gas tank under the cargo area. Reroute the exhaust under the tranny.
The IFS is fine, I have yet to see somebody grenade the IFS on the 4R, and this is with guys running 33s and 35s on them. And until Toyota fixes the rear elocker, it might be prudent to get it open and an ARB lcoker in the back (those seem to hold up fine). I seriously doubt Toyota will ever bring a SFA rig to the US. Also even look in OZ at the sales number of the Prado 120 vs the 100 vs the 105 and then you decide which truck you would invest in for the future. If you want SFA you will have to do it aftermarket.
Has Toyota done any strengthening of the CV's or are they still basically the same as the previous models?
07-27-2006, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Intrepid
Thank you! Finally someone steps up to the challenge! I was unaware of a lot of the suspension changes and it will definitely give me something to read up on. Has Toyota done any strengthening of the CV's or are they still basically the same as the previous models?
Has Toyota done any strengthening of the CV's or are they still basically the same as the previous models?
08-01-2006, 05:35 AM
#92
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I did not, sadly enough, get to drive an FJ this weekend...they weren't running blacks at Paragon with them so I was out of luck, I didn't want to wheel greens just so I could get a chance at one. I did hop into one again this year just to check it out while parked. Has anyone wheeled anything decently hard with one yet? How do you see? I felt like I was trapped sitting low in a box with tiny slits along the top. I could hardly see anything from in there and I am not a short guy. Other than the lack of being able to see anything, it was really comfy inside. The seats were nice, even the backseat felt pretty spacious.
Last edited by Intrepid; 08-01-2006 at 05:41 AM.
08-11-2006, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Intrepid
Do I earn an immediate ban if I mention the Rubicon? 
OR the fact that it is basically the same as an H3?
I agree on the first year thing, however, they haven't fixed the Tacoma rear end issue yet and it is past it's first year, what makes you think they will for the FJ? I am not denying that the FJ is a decent DD/light wheeler, but I have wheeled IFS...and replaced every part of it. I am unimpressed.
When Jeep offered it's followers an out of the box wheeler, it followed through, really low t-case gears, MTR's, upgraded axles over the stock version, dual e-lockers, etc. It seems to me that Toyota thought, "Hmm...thats a good idea." But they didn't want it to be a specialized sort of thing, so instead, they made a vehicle that appeals to soccer moms, low ground clearance, street tires, IFS, etc and added an option for a rear locker and sliders and then told all of us, "NONO, this is a REAL wheeler." and we believed them immediately because they took pics and vids of it off road. I have seen quite a few people wheeling the 4th gen 4runner's, how come noone acts like they are the best off road vehicle ever? While I do think this is the best we will get out of Toyota since they won't ship the Autstralian versions of the 100 series LC's here (dual elockers, sfa, etc), I don't think it is the magical rubicon killer, master wheeling machine it is touted to be.
Also, I am not comparing it to any modded vehicles. I was comparing it to the FJ-40, both in base form, I suspect the 40 would spank the cruiser.
In closing, I am also not saying I am going to run off and become a jeep owner, I still own one of the last year vehicles from back when Toyota remembered how to build them.
I just think that maybe we should take a more critical look at what Toyota has done here.
OR the fact that it is basically the same as an H3?I agree on the first year thing, however, they haven't fixed the Tacoma rear end issue yet and it is past it's first year, what makes you think they will for the FJ? I am not denying that the FJ is a decent DD/light wheeler, but I have wheeled IFS...and replaced every part of it. I am unimpressed.
When Jeep offered it's followers an out of the box wheeler, it followed through, really low t-case gears, MTR's, upgraded axles over the stock version, dual e-lockers, etc. It seems to me that Toyota thought, "Hmm...thats a good idea." But they didn't want it to be a specialized sort of thing, so instead, they made a vehicle that appeals to soccer moms, low ground clearance, street tires, IFS, etc and added an option for a rear locker and sliders and then told all of us, "NONO, this is a REAL wheeler." and we believed them immediately because they took pics and vids of it off road. I have seen quite a few people wheeling the 4th gen 4runner's, how come noone acts like they are the best off road vehicle ever? While I do think this is the best we will get out of Toyota since they won't ship the Autstralian versions of the 100 series LC's here (dual elockers, sfa, etc), I don't think it is the magical rubicon killer, master wheeling machine it is touted to be.
Also, I am not comparing it to any modded vehicles. I was comparing it to the FJ-40, both in base form, I suspect the 40 would spank the cruiser.
In closing, I am also not saying I am going to run off and become a jeep owner, I still own one of the last year vehicles from back when Toyota remembered how to build them.
I just think that maybe we should take a more critical look at what Toyota has done here.Hmmm... if you like Jeep so much, go and buy their junk and wait for a good ol' Toyota to come along and pull your crap out for you. A H3 indeed..... the H3 is complete with push button 4 wheel drive. Wow I'm impressed? I drove one when they came out and it wasn't that impressive.You are un-impressed with the FJ because 1st, you don't own one, 2nd, you have never driven one, and third, you don't have any idea of what you are speaking of. You think a stock FJ 40 would spank a stock FJ Cruiser? Boy have you a lot to learn. The FJ Cruiser is lower geared, has ATRAC, a rear locker, a center diff lock, and plenty of other standard options a 40 could only dream of. Speaking of dreaming, shouldn't you wake up now?
08-11-2006, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Intrepid
I did not, sadly enough, get to drive an FJ this weekend...they weren't running blacks at Paragon with them so I was out of luck, I didn't want to wheel greens just so I could get a chance at one. I did hop into one again this year just to check it out while parked. Has anyone wheeled anything decently hard with one yet? How do you see? I felt like I was trapped sitting low in a box with tiny slits along the top. I could hardly see anything from in there and I am not a short guy. Other than the lack of being able to see anything, it was really comfy inside. The seats were nice, even the backseat felt pretty spacious.
08-12-2006, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JHupp
I've worked on Scouts, Broncos, Balzers, and let me tell you, you will not find a truck from the factory with 3/4 ton solid axles, a short wheelbase, and a big V8, granted that's not what most people want, but that is a truck that is downright nasty on the trail.
Ram 2500 Regular Cab Power Wagon
MSRP* starting at: $37,775
345-horsepower 5.7-liter HEMI® V8 engine
Electronically locking front and rear differentials
Electronically disconnecting front stabilizer bar
12,000-pound Warn® winch
33-inch BFGoodrich® All-Terrain T/A®KO tires
Long-travel Bilstein® shock absorbers
Last edited by kwikrnu; 08-12-2006 at 12:46 AM.
08-12-2006, 06:40 AM
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Yeah,it is cool Dodge brought the Powerwagon back and it does have some nice options but while they say it starts under $38k the real world sticker is closer to $45k and that's alot of dough.
08-13-2006, 02:16 PM
#97
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Originally Posted by LandCruisers4Life
Hmmm... if you like Jeep so much, go and buy their junk and wait for a good ol' Toyota to come along and pull your crap out for you. A H3 indeed..... the H3 is complete with push button 4 wheel drive. Wow I'm impressed? I drove one when they came out and it wasn't that impressive.You are un-impressed with the FJ because 1st, you don't own one, 2nd, you have never driven one, and third, you don't have any idea of what you are speaking of. You think a stock FJ 40 would spank a stock FJ Cruiser? Boy have you a lot to learn. The FJ Cruiser is lower geared, has ATRAC, a rear locker, a center diff lock, and plenty of other standard options a 40 could only dream of. Speaking of dreaming, shouldn't you wake up now?
08-13-2006, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Intrepid
I had no idea this conversation continued. If you bothered to read the whole thing, I have said multiple times that I do not want a jeep, I am a Toyota owner and always will be. I am not refering to standard options, I meant a base model vs a base model. You are comparing...ya know what? I am not going to bother to respond to most of the crap you posted seeing as I have responded to it all already in this thread. Read.
I agree with Interpid.
Can't beleived I missed mini takeover at Paragon, I'm gonna miss the 4Runner jambo too, but ohh well, maybe next year when I have my 285s.
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